Is The IAF Mirage 2000 Upgrade Too Expensive?

[UKBengali]

My friend, even with these upgrades we will have this jet only for 10-15 more years compared to Rafales that will easily do another 25 years without ANY upgrades at all before they're MLUed or scrapped. That $2 billion is the blood and sweat money of our countrymen; it is our right to decide what to do with the deal. This government is already more anti-national than LeT and and AQ put together in its administration. I bet a fat paycheque is there behind this as well for our MOD babus. NO wonder they cleared it so fast without considering a new squadron of Rafales for the same price over and above MMRCA deal.

I suppose that I would not feel the same way as an Indian like yourself and praful would feel. It is your money(and that of your countrymen) at the end of the day.

The 2.7 billion dollars for the upgrade alone would pay for around 36 brand new Rafale fighters that would be more capable(AESA radar, higher thrust engines approaching 10:1 T/W ratio and ramjet--powered Meteor AAM) than the upgraded Mirage-2000s and also last much longer.

If it is just pure corruption that is responsible for this decision then that is extremely sad.

 

[angeldemon_007]

Earlier i thought that this 2.7 billion$ contract will include everything like weapons and all but it seems like they all are different.

 

[DelhiDareDevil]

Guys they might be tonnes of transfer of technology hence high price.

 

[praful]

Guys they might be tonnes of transfer of technology hence high price.

what tonnes of ToT. we are already getting it though MCRA which is more advance and lethal. This is simply waste of our hard earned money.

 

[fast]

Its crazy. We are paying billions to one of the wealthiest country in the world to keep them happy.

I think you have mistaken. The French made a honest deal. Most of the money stay inside India, in the pocket of the approving officials. They are indeed very happy.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Firstly in think that the IAF are professionals who know what they are doing. They made the recommendation to MoD/GoI and then they sorted out the contracts. There is some logic behind this- no point in throwing away perfectly good airframes as ACM Naik said, keeping continuity during a timeofextensive change in IAF- induction of new planes can be initially very challenging process so keeping a trusted plane over this period makes a lot of sense. On top ofthat the IAF already has extensive experience on these planes and they have spent extensive time at TACDE so during war tactics are already there and any warrior will tell you- they'd rather have a trusted, experienced friend by their side than a new, fresh, kid.


+ btw the FrAF intends to keep their Mirages (which are inferior to the standard IAF will be) till 2025 for use in nuclear stike and deep penetration and it has been recently serving very well along side Rafels and EFTs in Libya. I would underestimate this plane at my peril.

 

[RPK]

MACHINIST - Mirage 2000 upgrade cleared ; 30% offset obligation


Mirage 2000 upgrade cleared ; 30% offset obligation Print E-mail
Written by Viswanath
Thursday, 14 July 2011
New Delhi: Proposals related to upgrade of the Mirage 2000 have been cleared by a meeting of the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) which is chaired by the Prime Minister, Dr. Manmohan Singh. French firms Dassault and Thales will upgrade the aircraft.

The fleet of 51 Mirage 2000 aircrafts of the Indian Air Force (IAF) will be upgraded with beyond visual range missiles, radars, navigation, communications and electronic warfare equipment.

As per the agreement, India will first send two of its aircraft to France for upgrades. The rest would be upgraded at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited' facilities.

The US$2.4 billion - US$3 billion deal places a 30 percent offset obligation on the companies. Therefore the companies will have to invest at least 30 per cent of the worth of the deal back into the Indian defence, civilian aerospace and homeland security sectors.

The upgrade includes around $700 million for new weapons for the aircraft and another $500 million for new facilities at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL).

The proposals cleared are for the upgrade of systems of the aircraft and for over 400 MICA missiles for the upgraded fleet. MBDA will be the missile systems supplier and Thales the missile manufacturer. Dassault will be the lead integrator in this upgrade project.

These upgrades are expected to add 20-25 years to the life of the Mirages, inducted by the IAF in the mid-80s. The upgrade is to be performed over a period of nine years.

The CCS has also cleared Armored Recovery Vehicles awarded to BEML and Battle Management System to BEL.

 

[justanobserver]

Was the 30% offset mentioned before ?

 

[punit]

1 thing is clear Mirage r still the most trustworthy fighter planes. We simply cant waste them and to avoid that MlU is need to be done asap.

 

[punit]

1 thing is clear Mirage r still the most trustworthy fighter planes. We simply cant waste them and to avoid that MlU is need to be done asap.

 

[MrIndianSikh]

the thing that gets me mad is we could have still upgraded the mirages (because they still have good airframe life) with Israel who offered a quote of 1.2 billion Elta IAI and Rafael all could provide just as good if not better radars weapons avionics

take a look

EL/M-2052 AESA Radar

Litening Targeting Pod (more advanced than FLIR)

AAM's like

Derby

Python 4

Python 5

 

[rcrmj]

in china there is a saying, if you got ripped off its your won fault, because you are not capable of

 

[deckingraj]

in china there is a saying, if you got ripped off its your won fault, because you are not capable of

Thanks for the comment...you are absolutely right about it...


@Members
I have seen so many comments about adding a squadron of MRCA to Fifth generation era etc etc but did anyone even bother to think about the experience IAF has with Mirages??? Did anyone even bother to think how long it takes to master a new plane??? A pilot in Rapto will be shot down if he/she is not aware of the machine capabilities and limitations..no???

Yes the amount is too high for the upgrades but then do we have a choice??? Our current fleet is deteriorating and we cannot afford to loose planes that we are masters in and can be upgraded...It would be 2020 by the time we would be very comfortable with Rafaels or Eurofighters...till then we need to rely on such upgraded planes...

Just a quick example - The best plane that IAF had during kargil did not participate in Kargil...yes i am talking about MK2...reason is pretty obvious...

 

[Hulk]

Thanks for the comment...you are absolutely right about it...


@Members
I have seen so many comments about adding a squadron of MRCA to Fifth generation era etc etc but did anyone even bother to think about the experience IAF has with Mirages??? Did anyone even bother to think how long it takes to master a new plane??? A pilot in Rapto will be shot down if he/she is not aware of the machine capabilities and limitations..no???

Yes the amount is too high for the upgrades but then do we have a choice??? Our current fleet is deteriorating and we cannot afford to loose planes that we are masters in and can be upgraded...It would be 2020 by the time we would be very comfortable with Rafaels or Eurofighters...till then we need to rely on such upgraded planes...

Just a quick example - The best plane that IAF had during kargil did not participate in Kargil...yes i am talking about MK2...reason is pretty obvious...

Thanks Raj, I want to add little more.
If you buy new Phone with cool features, it takes you time to learn how to use it. The same is true for planes. IAF did not wanted all new planes at the same time. Also, I trust their wisdom more than any member on the forum. There is not everything that comes to light, the total cost include lot of things, not just the upgrade and it is complete madness to compare take away cost like we are doing.

Remember, we not only buy stuff, we also do TOT, purchase weapon and also pay for training.

If at all there is some angle of making money out of deal, that was possible with both new as well as old.

Note:- Mr Anthony is hated for being honest.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Just tell me one thing....DO WE HAVE ANY AIRCRAFT IN THE MIRAGE 2000 CATEGORY RIGHT NOW IN OUR FORCE?