IAF Mirage 2000 upgrade: Scam of Biblical Proportions

[duhastmish]

as u can see ppl are conveniently justifying 40 million per plane upgrade cost!!!

and they are calling be asshole

Now you tell me who won.
They see you they run.

 

[he-man]

No, I don't think you answered that previously. Anyway, there are enough links to substantiate the fact that they will serve for at least another two decades:

High cost of Mirage-2000 upgrade raises eyebrows - Times Of India

The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Main News




Modernisation of the Indian Air Force | Asian Defence News Articles | Defence Review Asia




There are enough links if you google. If the upgraded mig 29s can serve for 40 years, why can't the mirages serve for 50? That's the advantage of western platforms, they don't wear out like the Russian ones. They are usually built to last, which is why they cost more, unlike soviet stuff which were mass produced cheaply, but cost a lot to maintain, and had to be scrapped.

yaar even if they do after 2020 whats the use of such outdated platform??

most of the aircrafts will have at least a pesa radar..................way better ecm

we could have got a mig-35 for 60 million and it would have been 1000 times better

time is not a factor as upgrades take 7 years

 

[janon]

as u can see ppl are conveniently justifying 40 million per plane upgrade cost!!!

and they are calling be asshole

Nobody has called you an a-hole so far on this thread. On the other hand you did accuse me of "smoking something".

 

[duhastmish]

Extending the life and opting for newer jet like MIG-35 or Grippen would have been great for future.

M2K upgrades are indeed damn costly.Upgrade of jags was like replacing the stock music system with a newer one in a maruti 800. Even after the upgrades, they can never be a honda brio or a swift.

The reason they say is IAF's affinity for them, not an excuse for such a costly expenditure for public.

Sparky only reason which made us spend so much money was when IAF debated about their skill development and experience on mirage.

 

[he-man]

totally agree.................

Dear this why India is lagging behind because they don't see their problem. They don't deserve the Russia when we realise as a nation we never stood with them. Another problem is Top official don't look at pocket and state of country they just want fancy toys.
Mirage is amazing machine but how can some nano and alto based country buy a Ferrari.

 

Nobody has called you an a-hole so far on this thread. On the other hand you did accuse me of "smoking something".

yaar who is accusing u...............i meant ppl are coming after me,,,,chill yaar

 

[janon]

yaar even if they do after 2020 whats the use of such outdated platform??

most of the aircrafts will have at least a pesa radar..................way better ecm

we could have got a mig-35 for 60 million and it would have been 1000 times better

time is not a factor as upgrades take 7 years

I have quoted many IAF officials stating that the upgrades will make them "potent and relevant" for the next 20 years. They will be better than pak's F-16s in most respects. Not to mention JF-17s. BTW pakistan will be flying mirage-3s and F-7s for another ten years, compared to which these birds... 

totally agree.................
 

yaar who is accusing u...............i meant ppl are coming after me,,,,chill yaar

Nobody is "coming after" you or calling you an asshole. Don't be so paranoid. You are the one who should chill.

 

[he-man]

Sparky only reason which made us spend so much money was when IAF debated about their skill development and experience on mirage.

fucking they are not buying a personal car

assholes rejected lca and kept on dying flying migs.
what sort of person takes such stupid decisions??

they rejected mig-35 for 60 million and upgraded this shit for 40 million??

this is insanity 

I have quoted many IAF officials stating that the upgrades will make them "potent and relevant" for the next 20 years. They will be better than pak's F-16s in most respects. Not to mention JF-17s. BTW pakistan will be flying mirage-3s and F-7s for another ten years, compared to which these birds... 

Nobody is "coming after" you or calling you an asshole. Don't be so paranoid. You are the one who should chill.

ok should i prove u wrong on ur points wrt to f-16??

after mlu pakistani f-16 will kick mirage's ***......................go and see their equipment not to mention the kinematic performance

iaf is so foolish that it keeps flying mig-21 even after 50 years,,,,and refuses lca

similarly army is happy to operate blind,useless,obsolete t-72 tanks than arjuns!!

 

[SpArK]

Sparky only reason which made us spend so much money was when IAF debated about their skill development and experience on mirage.

Both are bought in early 80s some 30 year old ones.

The experienced pilots on them would have retired or will retire soon. .

 

[janon]

fucking they are not buying a personal car

assholes rejected lca and kept on dying flying migs.
what sort of person takes such stupid decisions??

they rejected mig-35 for 60 million and upgraded this shit for 40 million??

this is insanity

The person who's life depends on it.

Again you are quoting the flyaway costs as if that is all that matters. I have told you several times that flyaway cost is only one small part of all the costs we have to pay. There are many hidden costs included, for training and spares and maintainence. The cost of ownership is a lot more than flyaway cost.

After this point I think it is futile to explain, since it does not seem to be going through. You have made up in your mind that its all a scam and everybody are assholes, and clearly the only point of starting this thread was to vent. Well, have fun.

Yes yes, it's all a big scam, IAF are all assholes, MoD are all assholes, forumers with an internet connection and google and wikipedia figure of flyaway costs can easily know all that, so India will never progress, it is all kali yuga anyway, blah, blah. Feel free to add anything more.

 

[he-man]

fucking iaf officials

who can justify this.??

even engines werenot upgraded

 

[Abingdonboy]

yes if the new su-34 costs same as upgrade for old mirage 2000 whose service life left is 12-13 years

yes..............

What kind of thing is that to say? "if" they cost the same- that's a HUGE if! And I can tell you categorically there is simply no way the SU-34 would cost less than 40 mill apiece. The unit cost alone is almost 40 mill!!! Then factor in the Russians are notorious for their high life-cycle costs so you're going to be paying 4-5 times this amount per a/c over the course of its life. Then factor in these twin-engined birds (Su-34s) are guaranteed to cost more per flight hour than a M2K-5 MK.2. Then add training costs (to train air crews and ground staff), new infrastructure to be set up, new logistics and at the end of it you have a new system that is FAR more expensive than the system it was intended to replace (M2K) but arguably less useful to the IAF as they can only conduct A2G ops.

Whatever way you cut it, this is a completely absurd prospect and a waste of time and treasure.

 

[he-man]

The person who's life depends on it.

Again you are quoting the flyaway costs as if that is all that matters. I have told you several times that flyaway cost is only one small part of all the costs we have to pay. There are many hidden costs included, for training and spares and maintainence. The cost of ownership is a lot more than flyaway cost.

After this point I think it is futile to explain, since it does not seem to be going through. You have made up in your mind that its all a scam and everybody are assholes, and clearly the only point of starting this thread was to vent. Well, have fun.

this was not only about money

i would have been happy had they got a new platform like mig 35 for even 60-65 million per piece
we would have got an aesa with modern ew systems and 35 year life with option for upgrade.

what did we get in this??

mediocre avionics and shitty radar with same engine and airframe

its u who is showing fanboyism,,,,,,we did a faulty thing to upgrade a 30 year old machine???

who in the world does that??

 

[janon]

iaf is so foolish that it keeps flying mig-21 even after 50 years,,,,and refuses lca

similarly army is happy to operate blind,useless,obsolete t-72 tanks than arjuns!!

fucking iaf officials

who can justify this.??

even engines werenot upgraded

Right. So that's what you wanted, to vent at everybody. All right, enjoy!

India is doomed because everybody are effing a-holes.

 

[he-man]

and

What kind of thing is that to say? "if" they cost the same- that's a HUGE if! And I can tell you categorically there is simply no way the SU-34 would cost less than 40 mill apiece. The unit cost alone is almost 40 mill!!! Then factor in the Russians are notorious for their high life-cycle costs so you're going to be paying 4-5 times this amount per a/c over the course of its life. Then factor in these twin-engined birds (Su-34s) are guaranteed to cost more per flight hour than a M2K-5 MK.2. Then add training costs (to train air crews and ground staff), new infrastructure to be set up, new logistics and at the end of it you have a new system that is FAR more expensive than the system it was intended to replace (M2K) but arguably less useful to the IAF as they can only conduct A2G ops.

Whatever way you cut it, this is a completely absurd prospect and a waste of time and treasure.

Right. So that's what you wanted, to vent at everybody. All right, enjoy!

India is doomed because everybody are effing a-holes.

now u have nothing to counter??

my points are well founded

why didn't we get a new platform looking at future??

 

[janon]

What kind of thing is that to say? "if" they cost the same- that's a HUGE if! And I can tell you categorically there is simply no way the SU-34 would cost less than 40 mill apiece. The unit cost alone is almost 40 mill!!! Then factor in the Russians are notorious for their high life-cycle costs so you're going to be paying 4-5 times this amount per a/c over the course of its life. Then factor in these twin-engined birds (Su-34s) are guaranteed to cost more per flight hour than a M2K-5 MK.2. Then add training costs (to train air crews and ground staff), new infrastructure to be set up, new logistics and at the end of it you have a new system that is FAR more expensive than the system it was intended to replace (M2K) but arguably less useful to the IAF as they can only conduct A2G ops.

Whatever way you cut it, this is a completely absurd prospect and a waste of time and treasure.

It is an even bigger waste of time explaining all this, because believe me, I have already done that and found out. Clearly the point of the thread is to keep on saying how everybody are idiots and assholes, unlike PDF members who can understand it all so easily. There comes a point in a thread where nothing constructive can be gleamed, and I think that point has been crossed.