ASEAN as Defence Bloc?

[Viet]

We provoke the war between thailand and cambodia to warn Thai-Chinese King that: if he doesn't go against China's agression with us, then he will be overthrown like PoL Pot soon.

How about attacking Thailand (and next is Singapore), kick out all bad chinese there like what we did from 1979 to 1988 to let Thai-Sing to joint Viet-Laos-Camb's defence bloc ??

Let me remind you that: China-US didn't dare to protect their ally Thailand that time and three nuclear capable missile Shaddock with 1000kg conventional warhead can destroy the entire Singapore's territory

Bro, pls calm down, no need to threaten a friendly country like Singapore. They are our friend and supporter.

 

[Zabaniyah]

What do you say?
That´s a realistic scenario.

It's naive to say the least.

Exactly what is the threat perception of this if I may ask?

NATO was created to counter the Soviet threat. And trust me, they were a very real threat to the Western World. Hence, the alliance was justified. And that with the US at the helm.

Even back in those days, the US was a very formidable nation. It was large, had a healthy population level, lots of natural resources, an efficient government, high technology, science, a huge economy and a very powerful military. That is how the US can leverage its position in NATO.

And it still does so today, strong as ever.

Can we name any ASEAN member that is in a similar profile and size of the US that can lead? Such an alliance would always need a leader.

If we recall the South East Asia Treaty Organization (SEATO), that ended up being disbanded. Not only was it unable to address anything, but there were internal disputes among members.

They were laughably powerless as they saw Pakistan being cut into two right before their very eyes!

As said by a famous British diplomat, SEATO was nothing more than a "zoo of paper tigers". And so would this one.

For any military alliance, it must have teeth to bite something bite-worthy. Otherwise, it's a waste of time and resources.

Best for now is that those nations manage their own security.

ASEAN is at best an economic forum, and it should stay that way for now. And it has done extremely well in that regard. Let's not ruin that.

If such a bloc were to be formed, would it be wrong in assuming that it would necessarily be anti-china? Afterall, a number of these nations are wary of China, given its growing might and terrotorial disputes.

India is not strictly anti-China.

It's hesitant for the most part. But certainly not hostile.

 

[Luffy 500]

ASEAN wil never go against china. It will stay neutral maintaining normal business relation with china.

 

[ahfatzia]

How about attacking Thailand (and next is Singapore), kick out all bad chinese there like what we did from 1979 to 1988 to let Thai-Sing to joint Viet-Laos-Camb's defence bloc ??

Let me remind you that: China-US didn't dare to protect their ally Thailand that time and three nuclear capable missile Shaddock with 1000kg conventional warhead can destroy the entire Singapore's territory

Let me remind you out of the jungles in Vietnam your troops are useless without the protection of your tunnel complex. Thailand alone can bomb you back to stone ages if your men get near its border.

Fix up your economy before you talk big. No one nation can have hegemony ambitions over others without a strong economy and an advance military complex. Your 3rd world power status was only a dream your politicians conjured up to make them feel big and mighty.

 

[Leader]

Yesterday a Indian member said something on one of our VN threads that keeps me thinking about it: the idea of forming the ASEAN into a defence bloc similar to the NATO, for self-defence.

I would be surprised if the Vietnamese goverment does not think the same. Want to hear what you think of the idea, especially from China and the US?

What are Pros and Cons?

A great idea !!

 

[NiceGuy]

Let me remind you out of the jungles in Vietnam your troops are useless without the protection of your tunnel complex. Thailand alone can bomb you back to stone ages if your men get near its border.

.

Our 'mud men' are almost invisible . They damaged B-52 in Utapao air port of Thailand during VN war, they sneaked into china's terriory and destroy 10 mil $$ radar easily. It's almost impossible to stop our attack, dude

Fix up your economy before you talk big. No one nation can have hegemony ambitions over others without a strong economy and an advance military complex. Your 3rd world power status was only a dream your politicians conjured up to make them feel big and mighty

Our economy from VN war to 1990 was even worse than now, but we still defeat US-China bcz we had great help from Soviet, and now, we still have great help from Russia -Japan. So, if you chinese in ASEAN region refuse to unite with us, then, you will have the same fate with Pol Pot

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

If we recall the South East Asia Treaty Organization (SEATO), that ended up being disbanded. Not only was it unable to address anything, but there were internal disputes among members.

They were laughably powerless as they saw Pakistan being cut into two right before their very eyes!

As said by a famous British diplomat, SEATO was nothing more than a "zoo of paper tigers". And so would this one.

Interesting point, overlooked.

 

[arp2041]

This is a good idea, but there are some points which i wanted to raise:

1. Who will play the role of US (or stabilizing force of NATO) in ASEAN military block?
2. Cambodia & Laos are in favor of China (pls correct if wrong), so they can harm the interests of ASEAN w.r.t the maritime dispute b/w ASEAN-China.
3. IMHO there is no country in ASEAN with a credible military force, so overall the block can be without any strength.
4. The most important, the ASEAN countries have maritime disputes within themselves, so how will they be able to form a strong military block if they don't have trust in each other (remember NATO countries has no major dispute b/w themselves).

 

[NiceGuy]

This is a good idea, but there are some points which i wanted to raise:

1. Who will play the role of US (or stabilizing force of NATO) in ASEAN military block?
.

It will be VietNam with the great help from Russia.

2. Cambodia & Laos are in favor of China (pls correct if wrong), so they can harm the interests of ASEAN w.r.t the maritime dispute b/w ASEAN-China.

Laos supported VN in 1979 war against China and she always support VN bcz we still have thousands undercover troops stationing in Laos now.

In December 1988, the Communist Lao Government announced that all the Vietnam troops had withdrawn from Laos but in fact, there are still more than 60,000 Vietnamese troops in December 1990.
On 11 November 1995 Vietnam signed a new Treaty with Laos to further enhance this arrangement, under the name " Labour Exchange Agreement "
Under the term of Labour Exchange Agreement , Vietnam sent their soldiers to Laos in the disguise of ordinary labourers; these labourers had trucks of their own, in which they kept a wide variety of special weaponry for military action for any eventuality.
EIN presswire - Voice of Laotians Overseas

Same to Cambodia, thousands undercover VNese troops stationing in Camb to make sure she will remain special friendship with us.

3. IMHO there is no country in ASEAN with a credible military force, so overall the block can be without any strength.

With great help from Russia, our army will get stronger soon, as you can see, we're drilling oil inside disputed zone with china now and 'mighty' China can do Nothing to us.

4. The most important, the ASEAN countries have maritime disputes within themselves, so how will they be able to form a strong military block if they don't have trust in each other (remember NATO countries has no major dispute b/w themselves).

Yeah, this issue is quite hard to resolve, but just like Phillipne, if she refuse to unite with VN-Laos-Camb then she will be bullied and invaded by China for good.So, it seems that she's beckoning to unite with us to fight against China now .

 

[Viet]

This is a good idea, but there are some points which i wanted to raise:

1. Who will play the role of US (or stabilizing force of NATO) in ASEAN military block?
2. Cambodia & Laos are in favor of China (pls correct if wrong), so they can harm the interests of ASEAN w.r.t the maritime dispute b/w ASEAN-China.
3. IMHO there is no country in ASEAN with a credible military force, so overall the block can be without any strength.
4. The most important, the ASEAN countries have maritime disputes within themselves, so how will they be able to form a strong military block if they don't have trust in each other (remember NATO countries has no major dispute b/w themselves).

I answered all of your questions in a number of posts, pls just go back and surf. Anyway is the summary:

1# that would be a Vietnam-led defence alliance
2# Membership to the bloc would base on voluntary basis, not a must. I believe Laos and Philippines would be the first to join the bloc.
3# credible military force: see 1# and with supports from major powers including the US, Japan, India, Russia, France and Germany
4# maritime and border disputes among member states are underway to be resolved as we speak

China would likely oppose the idea, but we would offer them a security package, so that China would benefit from the idea at the end of the day. I have reasons to believe they would agree.

The proposed name
East Sea Defence Treaty (ESDT)

 

[Viet]

any further Contras?

 

[Viet]

A great idea !!

Would Pakistan support the idea?

 

[ahfatzia]

Our 'mud men' are almost invisible

Yo you olde wiseguy, the war is long over, come out of the jungles. The new tet year (2013 western) is coming in a few months and you have to save some dongs to put in 'red envelopes' for your granddaughters.

 

[Viet]

Yo you olde wiseguy, the war is long over, come out of the jungles. The new tet year (2013 western) is coming in a few months and you have to save some dongs to put in 'red envelopes' for your granddaughters.

Don´t take my countryman´s comments about Singapore too serious. If there is a war between us then a war of words. No more.

I have some ideas about Singapore´s future defence. Singapore would fit perfect in our plan.

 

[Diamond_Gold]

Don´t take my countryman´s comments about Singapore too serious. If there is a war between us then a war of words. No more.

I have some ideas about Singapore´s future defence. Singapore would fit perfect in our plan.

What plan? You sounded like a big boss here! LOLOL...