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ASEAN as Defence Bloc?

NATO was only formed because they view the USSR as a threat. As airuah has quite rightly put it, a defense bloc will only happen if the community sees a big enough threat to their region, providing there are no major disputes amongst the group involved. Unless NATO is actively targeting the region or China, Russia or India (any of these big powers) are militarily active in this region and throwing their weights around, then the possibility of an ASEAN defense bloc is as good as nil.
 
Europe is Christian, ASEAN is Communist, Muslims, secular democracies, Chinese (70+ million), Christian (phillipines), Buddhist (Thailand n Burma) etc etc (not going to work)

Europe doesn't have outstanding land disputes, ASEAN has huge land disputes e.g. last year skirmishes between thailand and cambodia (not going to work)

You can't just say because Europe did it we should emulate that for somewhere else. It took two world wars and a cold war for Europe to be where they are now.


Turkey is a muslim country, while Greece is a christian. Both are members of NATO, both are archrival. Germany is rich, while Albania is poor. So religion, races or government differences do not matter.

What counts is trust and a wish to form a defence bloc for self-defence.
 
When you think thats a realistic scenario thats called a delusion. You know what delusions are? Its when everyone presents you with evidence and you shrug it off as nonsense because you have an idea fixated deep in your mind kiddo.


delusion?
I guess the Philippines would be the first to join.
 
you just don't get it do you? Turkey maybe islamic but it has a democratic secular government and thats one of the pre requisites to join NATO. How are u going to talk about values, freedom, etc when u got communists, muslim extremists, christian fundamentalist, authoritarian dictatorships, kingdoms, democracies etc to work together towards a common goal when everyone has very different goals and needs?

At least NATO had one goal (anti soviet union), one system (democracy) not a cluster **** of interests and backgrounds. Don't ever take the human factor out of things.
 
NATO was only formed because they view the USSR as a threat. As airuah has quite rightly put it, a defense bloc will only happen if the community sees a big enough threat to their region, providing there are no major disputes amongst the group involved. Unless NATO is actively targeting the region or China, Russia or India (any of these big powers) are militarily active in this region and throwing their weights around, then the possibility of an ASEAN defense bloc is as good as nil.


What do you think which country is a potential threat for Vietnam today?
 
What do you think which country is a potential threat for Vietnam?

U walk down the street and ask random who is a potential threat? answer is anyone can be a potential threat. It just depends on how much u want to p1ss them off.
 
SCO is not a military alliance.

The only other military alliance of nations other than NATO is Collective Security Treaty Organisation

Collective_Security_Treaty_Organisation

Let me give you a little perspective. How many nations does China have large war games with? Does China have war simulation training on a large scale with their economic partners in Europe? or ASEAN? Who does China have huge scale military war games with> and who votes in accordance with each other at the UNSC?

If you enjoy a little read

Geopolitical aspects of the SCO

There have been many discussions and commentaries about the geopolitical nature of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation. Matthew Brummer, in the Journal of International Affairs, tracks the implications of SCO expansion into the Persian Gulf.[54]

Iranian writer, Hamid Golpira, had this to say on the topic: "According to Zbigniew Brzezinski's theory, control of the Eurasian landmass is the key to global domination and control of Central Asia is the key to control of the Eurasian landmass....Russia and China have been paying attention to Brzezinski's theory, since they formed the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation in 2001, ostensibly to curb extremism in the region and enhance border security, but most probably with the real objective of counterbalancing the activities of the United States and NATO in Central Asia".[55]

At a 2005 summit in Kazakhstan the SCI issued a Declaration of Heads of Member States of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation which addressed their "concerns" and contained an elaboration of the organisation's principles. It included: “The heads of the member states point out that, against the backdrop of a contradictory process of globalisation, multilateral cooperation, which is based on the principles of equal right and mutual respect, non-intervention in internal affairs of sovereign states, non-confrontational way of thinking and consecutive movement towards democratisation of international relations, contributes to overall peace and security, and call upon the international community, irrespective of its differences in ideology and social structure, to form a new concept of security based on mutual trust, mutual benefit, equality and interaction.[56]

In November 2005 Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov reiterated that the "Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) is working to establish a rational and just world order" and that "The Shanghai Cooperation Organisation provides us with a unique opportunity to take part in the process of forming a fundamentally new model of geopolitical integration".[57]

A Chinese daily expressed the matter in these terms: "The Declaration points out that the SCO member countries have the ability and responsibility to safeguard the security of the Central Asian region, and calls on Western countries to leave Central Asia. That is the most noticeable signal given by the Summit to the world".[58]

As published on StopNATo_Org, [the above mentioned declaration] also recognised that no single, standardised model of political, economic, social, cultural and ethical development and practices could be forced on the 88% of humanity that lives outside the Euro-Atlantic world, not a parliamentary system devised in the British Isles centuries ago nor a consumerist culture and pseudo-civilisation designed on Madison Avenue and in Hollywood.[59]

Validating that same school of thought, a study published by China's Academy of Military Science criticises Washington's "overbearing strategy of encirclement and suffocation".

That may not be Washington's intent. But from Beijing's vantage point, the United States is arrayed along China's periphery, with a long-term presence in Japan and South Korea, strong ties with Thailand and the Philippines, a blossoming partnership with India and a growing role in Central Asia.

Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao has concluded that the United States is manoeuvring "to preserve its status as the world's sole superpower and will not allow any country the chance to pose a challenge to it".[60]

Russia is not a supporter of NATO or of any of its former Soviet states joining it, as seen in this explicit statement made in 2006 by Russian Ambassador to Ukraine, Viktor Chernomyrdin, "when a neighbouring country becomes a member of the North-Atlantic Military bloc, then I'm sorry—then this strategic partnership [with Russia] should be viewed from a different angle and [it should be reviewed] whether this strategic partnership relationship should continue to exist at all".

An article in The Washington Post in early 2008 reported that President Vladimir Putin stated that Russia could aim nuclear missiles at Ukraine if Russia's neighbour and former fraternal republic in the Soviet Union joins the NATO alliance and hosts elements of a U.S. missile defence system. "It is horrible to say and even horrible to think that, in response to the deployment of such facilities in Ukrainian territory, which cannot theoretically be ruled out, Russia could target its missile systems at Ukraine", Putin said at a joint news conference with Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko, who was visiting the Kremlin. "Imagine this just for a second".[61][62]

The International Federation for Human Rights has called SCO a "vehicle" for Human rights violations.[63]
 
Problems can be overcome by negotiations that are happening as we speak.
The formidable Vietnamese Army would be the core of ASEAN defence bloc.

:lol:

It is not solely the issue of territorial disputes. As with NATO, you would need at least one nation to act as a pivot for forming a defence bloc. Does Vietnam posses sufficient power projection to act as a pivot nation for ASEAN is the question that needs to be asked.
 
What do you think which country is a potential threat for Vietnam?

Threat to Vietnam or not will not matter when the rest of the ASEAN community views Vietnam and Philippines equally in the same light. The more suitable question should be "Does the ASEAN community want to view themselves as tools for Vietnam and fighting for their course?".
 
you just don't get it do you? Turkey maybe islamic but it has a democratic secular government and thats one of the pre requisites to join NATO. How are u going to talk about values, freedom, etc when u got communists, muslim extremists, christian fundamentalist, authoritarian dictatorships, kingdoms, democracies etc to work together towards a common goal when everyone has very different goals and needs?

At least NATO had one goal (anti soviet union), one system (democracy) not a cluster **** of interests and backgrounds. Don't ever take the human factor out of things.


About Turkey, how many military coups happened since it joined NATO in 1952?

Surely everything must fit before forming an alliance between members. I think not all ASEAN members would join.
 
1)Against whom it will be aligned?ASEAN will need backing of some big military power,may be china or U.S.

2)If its against china,there are few pro china members in ASEAN like cambodia.

3) Unity among asean members?
 
It is not solely the issue of territorial disputes. As with NATO, you would need at least one nation to act as a pivot for forming a defence bloc. Does Vietnam posses sufficient power projection to act as a pivot nation for ASEAN is the question that needs to be asked.

Did you just say a Communist country like Vietnam is going to lead a bloc? With their economy?:undecided:
 
About Turkey, how many military coups happened since it joined NATO in 1952?

Surely everything must fit before forming an alliance between members. I think not all ASEAN members would join.

no one would join because everyone has their own interests. If say Phillipines joins with Vietnam then Malaysia and Indonesia are going to counter them. Then Singapore is going to ask China for help and support and then it goes to cluster **** again.
 
It is not solely the issue of territorial disputes. As with NATO, you would need at least one nation to act as a pivot for forming a defence bloc. Does Vietnam posses sufficient power projection to act as a pivot nation for ASEAN is the question that needs to be asked.


Well, Vietnam would build the core.

I think the major powers US, Japan, Russia and India would help or would not hinder us. It is not an issue for NATO, either. With Germany and France as close friends we would get assistance, too.
 
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