ASEAN as Defence Bloc?

[Viet]

What plan? You sounded like a big boss here! LOLOL...

Vietnam and Singapore will sign a strategic partnership, including defence cooperation, right?
Why not go further and include a defence treaty between us?


S'pore and Vietnam to sign strategic partnership agreement in 2013

The Strategic Partnership agreement will elevate the existing links between Singapore and Vietnam, and open up new directions for cooperation in various areas, including education and defence.

http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest+News/Singapore/Story/A1Story20120912-371214.html

 

[ahfatzia]

Singapore, being a small cty-state, has two real fears in the intermediate term of lets say within two decades. Number one are the arm races going on in this area and being small with limited personal and land mass any arm race has its limit. I'll let the keen observers to guess what the second fear is.

Singapore needs a long term reliable protector and the US can not be one because she has too many dishes on the table already and Singapore has to get in line to be her favorite. The best catch is China because China can and will treat Singapore as her Israel without any stings attached and China is on the rise. I would advice my national leaders to work on this goal if they haven't done so already. Signing up defense treaties with regional powers also helps.

 

[R0H1T]

Singapore, being a small cty-state, has two real fears in the intermediate term of lets say within two decades. Number one are the arm races going on in this area and being small with limited personal and land mass any arm race has its limit. I'll let the keen observers to guess what the second fear is.

Singapore needs a long term reliable protector and the US can not be one because she has too many dishes on the table already and Singapore has to get in line to be her favorite. The best catch is China because China can and will treat Singapore as her Israel without any strings attached and China is on the rise. I would advice my national leaders to work on this goal if they haven't done so already. Signing up defense treaties with regional powers also helps.

You must be joking if you think CN will give you a free ride, just ask PAK

 

[Viet]

Singapore, being a small cty-state, has two real fears in the intermediate term of lets say within two decades. Number one are the arm races going on in this area and being small with limited personal and land mass any arm race has its limit. I'll let the keen observers to guess what the second fear is.

Singapore needs a long term reliable protector and the US can not be one because she has too many dishes on the table already and Singapore has to get in line to be her favorite. The best catch is China because China can and will treat Singapore as her Israel without any stings attached and China is on the rise. I would advice my national leaders to work on this goal if they haven't done so already. Signing up defense treaties with regional powers also helps.

I am sure Vietnam is neither number #1 nor #2 of your fears.
That´s fine if Singapore gets protected by China, but I doubt China would do. Hard to imagine China would come to rescue if Singapore being attacked by (no offence) Malaysia or Indonesia.

Vietnam would do!

 

[kalu_miah]

Singapore, being a small cty-state, has two real fears in the intermediate term of lets say within two decades. Number one are the arm races going on in this area and being small with limited personal and land mass any arm race has its limit. I'll let the keen observers to guess what the second fear is.

Singapore needs a long term reliable protector and the US can not be one because she has too many dishes on the table already and Singapore has to get in line to be her favorite. The best catch is China because China can and will treat Singapore as her Israel without any stings attached and China is on the rise. I would advice my national leaders to work on this goal if they haven't done so already. Signing up defense treaties with regional powers also helps.

I heard there is water issues with Malaysia. Is that the 2nd threat, water brinkmanship from Malaysia? Raising price to unsustainable level?
Water conflicts between Malaysia and Singapore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Overseas Chinese are a great resource for Chinese influence in ASEAN region. China should work with Singapore and other overseas Chinese to integrate the region to reduce US and Indian influence. If it can encourage ASEAN to also include countries like Bangladesh and Sri Lanka, that would be a great boost for these countries and a way to reduce Indian influence in these two countries. I am sure both of these two countries want entry into ASEAN, but they are not sure if ASEAN would want them because they are "South Asian" in terms of ethnic origin.

All of the above will be a boost for security of Singapore, because both Bangladesh and Sri Lanka are China friendly country out of necessity to balance against Indian influence. Once they are in ASEAN they can be China's hands inside ASEAN and work to reduce Indian inroad and influence in these nations.

Overall, both China and India benefit from an integrated greater ASEAN region and it will also be good to maintain balance of power to maintain peace and stability in the region to avoid any major conflict within ASEAN members and between ASEAN members and China or India. So instead of worrying about short term loss of influence, both India and China should think about long term future of the region, but such far sighted wisdom is not expected from present generation of Chinese or Indian leaders. It takes away Chinese and Indian ability to divide and rule and abuse individual nations, but it elevates the whole region, which will be good for both India and China. That is because, once greater ASEAN can develop its human potential, US will no longer be needed as an offshore balancer, specially if Japan and Korea decide to join this group, but that is another sticky issue for China and even India I think. Both of these big nations do not like the small countries getting together in a bloc, because they think it reduces their freedom to influence or use/abuse these small nations.

 

[ahfatzia]

I am sure Vietnam is neither number #1 nor #2 of your fears.
That´s fine if Singapore gets protected by China, but I doubt China would do. Hard to imagine China would come to rescue if Singapore being attacked by (no offence) Malaysia or Indonesia.

Vietnam would do!

Correct.

Singapore's relationship with China is deep than it meet the eyes and of course, which I forgot to mention before, Singapore has to act the part of Israel in order to main a strong alliance with China. Being a small player and an economic oriented nation I don't think China minds for Singapore to keep the existing good relationship with the US. But if the two big boys are at each others throats then Singapore must chooses China or act as middleman between them.

Not to disrespect Vietnam, I think your country still have a way to go before she can assume the leadership role among the ASEAN nation in terms of defense alliance and if such alliance is to be made today, Indonesia obviously will dominated. A strong army, in this sense, need a strong economy to back it up and Indonesia is clearly has the upper hand economically and politically.

As some posters mentioned before a military alliance without a common perceived enemy is hard to hold water. A region alliance between a few players within ASEAN would also viewed suspiciously.

 

[terranMarine]

What plan? You sounded like a big boss here! LOLOL...

He's probably in command otherwise he wouldn't say something like that.

 

[NiceGuy]

Singapore needs a long term reliable protector and the US can not be one because she has too many dishes on the table already and Singapore has to get in line to be her favorite. The best catch is China because China can and will treat Singapore as her Israel without any stings attached and China is on the rise. I would advice my national leaders to work on this goal if they haven't done so already. Signing up defense treaties with regional powers also helps.

if Chinese-Singaporean try to ally with China,then you will get sanction from US and just like Chinese-Khmer, your days are numbers

Not to disrespect Vietnam, I think your country still have a way to go before she can assume the leadership role among the ASEAN nation in terms of defense alliance and if such alliance is to be made today, Indonesia obviously will dominated. A strong army, in this sense, need a strong economy to back it up and Indonesia is clearly has the upper hand economically and politically.

We have Russia-Japan back up,dude

 

[EastSea]

Let me remind you out of the jungles in Vietnam your troops are useless without the protection of your tunnel complex. Thailand alone can bomb you back to stone ages if your men get near its border.

Fix up your economy before you talk big. No one nation can have hegemony ambitions over others without a strong economy and an advance military complex. Your 3rd world power status was only a dream your politicians conjured up to make them feel big and mighty.

funny joke. / Thailand has a debt from us when they permitted USA used Utapao military airport against us in Vietnam war. We can ask them to answer about it in reasonable time.

 

[ahfatzia]

if Chinese-Singaporean try to ally with China,then you will get sanction from US and just like Chinese-Khmer, your days are numbers
We have Russia-Japan back up,dude

Don't be absurd, why would the world's only super-big-power sanction a little country like.....oops this one might....

I never heard of a superpower (DaiViet) has sugar daddy, let alone two.



@ EastSea


That's what Thailand has in store for you, good luck in collecting your debts.

Military Manpower Available 35,444,716
Fit for Military Service 27,490,939
Reaching Military Age Yearly 1,043,204
Active Military Personnel 305,860
Active Military Reserves 245,000
Total Aircraft 913
Total Land-Based Weapons 4,392
Total Naval Units 164
Towed Artillery 741
Merchant Marine Strength 382
Major Ports and Terminals 5
Aircraft Carriers 1
Frigates 6
Patrol Coastal Craft 109
Mine Warfare Craft 7
Amphibious Operations Craft 9
Defense Budget / Expenditure $5,200,000,000
Foreign Reserves $176,100,000,000

 

[NiceGuy]

Don't be absurd, why would the world's only super-big-power sanction a little country like.....oops this one might....

So, try to ally with china and you will see what will happen

Little Singapore is just a little chess in US's hand, you have no choice and no fate , dude.

I never heard of a superpower (DaiViet) has sugar daddy, let alone two

Russia allows VN to buy weapon on creadit, she's helping us to build a sub-marine base ,too.

About Japan, you can google.

Japan keen to increase investment in Vietnam - Japan keen to ...
english.vovnews.vn/.../Japan...increase-investment-in-... - Dịch trang này
22 Sep 2012 – Japan keen to increase investment in Vietnam. (VOV) - An economic delegation from the Japan Chamber of Commerce and Industry (JCCI) will ...
ITPC - Online Trade and Investment Information Portal — Japan ...
ITPC - Online Trade and Investment Information Portal › Investors › News › 2012 › September
Japan investment to increase. Date : 17/09/2012. Japanese entrepreneurs were apprised about investment opportunities in Vietnam, especially in support ...
Japanese enterprises seek more investment chances in Vietnam ...
Quân ??i nhân dân - www.qdnd.vn
24 Tháng Chín 2012 – Japanese enterprises seek more investment chances in Vietnam ... 7 billion USD from export to Japan, a year-on-year increase of 45 percent

That's what Thailand has in store for you

And she can't even stop Camb's artillery, so let alone VN nuclear capable Shaddock with 1000kg warhead

 

[ahfatzia]

Russia allows VN to buy weapon on creadit, she's helping us to build a sub-marine base ,too.

And she can't even stop Camb's artillery, so let alone VN nuclear capable Shaddock with 1000kg warhead

Don't worry about us, just worry about what you're going to do when Daddy Bear comes to hug you for his payment, oil for arm, perhaps.

I wonder those obsoleted shaddocks still work.

(My last off topic post)

 

[NiceGuy]

I wonder those obsoleted shaddocks still work.

(My last off topic post)

Just like obsolete Camb's artillery still work with Thailand

BTW: we've upgraded our Shaddock to mach 2.2 for a very long time already

 

[kalu_miah]

Just like obsolete Camb's artillery still work with Thailand

BTW: we've upgraded our Shaddock to mach 2.2 for a very long time already

Guys, if I may say a few words and poke my nose where it does not belong. Chinese in South East Asia have always been a prosperous minority and sometimes vulnerable. If you issue constant threats to someone who have a history of insecurity in the region, then they will not trust you and may work against your interest.

The trick I believe is to convince the overseas Chinese (South East Asian people with Chinese ethnic origin) that they are one of the local people, after all they are living here for many generations, if not centuries. This will bring them to ASEAN side and then they can be utilized as a bridge with China for the interest of ASEAN.

The fact is their interest and future well being is intimately tied with South East Asia (ASEAN), much more than China, so logically they should and I believe they will work for the collective interest of all South East Asians in ASEAN.

 

[NiceGuy]

Guys, if I may say a few words and poke my nose where it does not belong. Chinese in South East Asia have always been a prosperous minority and sometimes vulnerable. If you issue constant threats to someone who have a history of insecurity in the region, then they will not trust you and may work against your interest.

We should control over sea chinese than putting our Truth on them, bro.If you trust them, once day, when you're no longer china's friend, then those chinese living in your country will backstab you.

Ieng Sary is Chinese-VNese , instead of helping VNese against China and Pol Pot, he helped Pol Pot to kill thousands innocent VNese.

Ieng Sary (Khmer: អៀង សារី, born October 24, 1924,[1] Tra Vinh, Vietnam) was a powerful figure in the Khmer Rouge. He was the Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister of Democratic Kampuchea from 1975 to 1979 and held several senior positions in the Khmer Rouge until his defection to the government in 1996.
Ieng Sary - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The trick I believe is to convince the overseas Chinese (South East Asian people with Chinese ethnic origin) that they are one of the local people, after all they are living here for many generations, if not centuries. This will bring them to ASEAN side and then they can be utilized as a bridge with China for the interest of ASEAN.

That bridge only lead to hell and blood bath, we learned lots of lesson after 1979, bro.