Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions.

[RAMPAGE]

That wont happen since that substitute wont cover hardened targets unless GIDS(or someone else) comes up with something useful which they haven't for now since the Takbir system isnt exactly tried and the SDB series will never be on a Chinese product.
Then, they will have to go through a very small patch within the Indian ADGe where the IAf will place fighters to provide coverage for the gaps.

A better solution is having systems like the Raad have the penetration and runway denial capability; something that might already exist.

There is the H-2 SOW and @Bilal Khan 777 mentioned multiple air launched munitions underdevelopment. But what do you think of the FC-31? Will it be possible to induct a squadron by 2020?

@Oscar But it would be easier to pick up and intercept Ra'ad in terminal phase than FC-31 at a stand-off range or those SDBs lauched by it.

 

[SQ8]

There is the H-2 SOW and @Bilal Khan 777 mentioned multiple air launched munitions underdevelopment. But what do you think of the FC-31? Will it be possible to induct a squadron by 2020?

No. The FC-31 is offered but there are reasons the PAF is not that impressed with it.

 

[RAMPAGE]

No. The FC-31 is offered but there are reasons the PAF is not that impressed with it.

Wasn't that sort of a technology demonstrator? They're planning a V2 of sorts.

 

[SQ8]

Wasn't that sort of a technology demonstrator? They're planning a V2 of sorts.

The V2 is nowhere and the demonstrator has not given any hope to a fruitful performance of any V2.

 

[fatman17]

Pilot Officer Rashid Minhas Shaheed Nishan e Haider, 20th August 1971.

 

[fatman17]

Just a nice pic

 

[HAIDER]

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

There is the H-2 SOW and @Bilal Khan 777 mentioned multiple air launched munitions underdevelopment. But what do you think of the FC-31? Will it be possible to induct a squadron by 2020?

@Oscar But it would be easier to pick up and intercept Ra'ad in terminal phase than FC-31 at a stand-off range or those SDBs lauched by it.

The solution is a lower cost Umbani derived Al Tariq system, with further standoff modifications to engaged the recent modifications in the Indian ADGE.

 

[araz]

The V2 is nowhere and the demonstrator has not given any hope to a fruitful performance of any V2.

Is it possible for you to elaborate a bit more. I understand fully if not.
A

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Is it possible for you to elaborate a bit more. I understand fully if not.
A

The first prototype - i.e. J-31 - was shown as a technology demonstrator or an example that China is capable of developing and producing a 5th generation fighter. When the J-31 was shown to the public for the first time in 2014, its aerial performance was not received well. Anyways, in 2015 AVIC promised that the final product - i.e. FC-31 - would be much improved, but in order to push the program forward, it required external development funding. To date, no one - not even Pakistan - has taken them up on that offer.

 

[fatman17]

PAF will not venture into another major project until the JF17 program has been completed, that is 150 aircraft inducted with progressive upgrades to earlier models of the type. Yes if opportunities to induct new or used F16s develop they will happily buy into.

 

[araz]

The first prototype - i.e. J-31 - was shown as a technology demonstrator or an example that China is capable of developing and producing a 5th generation fighter. When the J-31 was shown to the public for the first time in 2014, its aerial performance was not received well. Anyways, in 2015 AVIC promised that the final product - i.e. FC-31 - would be much improved, but in order to push the program forward, it required external development funding. To date, no one - not even Pakistan - has taken them up on that offer.

Thank you. One always hopes for startling bits of info but what @Oscar has mentioned I remember having read on the net earlier. The fact remains that the Chinese will have to fund the J31 by themselves and perhaps even buy some for themselves before others will have the confidence to venture in. The JF17 experience and rthe denial to abide by an agreement(Source is again news articles so if someone knows better please let us know) has taught the PAF a good lesson. I dont think it will fall for the same trick again. As time passes by more options will emerge and allow PAF to look else where for collaboration/joint ventures. A bit of competition will get the Chinese armaments juggernaut to start moving in the right direction as well. This would be a win win situation for all.
Let watch this space.
A

PAF will not venture into another major project until the JF17 program has been completed, that is 150 aircraft inducted with progressive upgrades to earlier models of the type. Yes if opportunities to induct new or used F16s develop they will happily buy into.

My friend!
It looks increasingly like JFT will run into the mid to late 20s with upto 5-6 blocks of 50s.PAFs options are extremely limited at the moment and will remain so till new avenues open up. Whether they lead to the same source or others remains to be seen.
A

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Thank you. One always hopes for startling bits of info but what @Oscar has mentioned I remember having read on the net earlier. The fact remains that the Chinese will have to fund the J31 by themselves and perhaps even buy some for themselves before others will have the confidence to venture in. The JF17 experience and rthe denial to abide by an agreement(Source is again news articles so if someone knows better please let us know) has taught the PAF a good lesson. I dont think it will fall for the same trick again. As time passes by more options will emerge and allow PAF to look else where for collaboration/joint ventures. A bit of competition will get the Chinese armaments juggernaut to start moving in the right direction as well. This would be a win win situation for all.
Let watch this space.
A


My friend!
It looks increasingly like JFT will run into the mid to late 20s with upto 5-6 blocks of 50s.PAFs options are extremely limited at the moment and will remain so till new avenues open up. Whether they lead to the same source or others remains to be seen.
A

Agreed. I think the JF-17 will be in production well into the 2020s and possibly longer as well. We've invested a ton into the program, and it'd be irrational to invest in a clean sheet design that fulfills the exact same purpose, but with relatively limited marginal gain (in comparison to a matured advance iteration JF-17). The next-generation fighter question may not involve as much localization as the JF-17, I expect - at least initially - the focus will be on acquiring a hi-tech successor to the F-16, and ensuring that it isn't as sanction prone as the F-16. What that would result in remains to be seen ... FC-31, TFX, Airbus FCAS, KFX, a Russian plane...who knows...

 

[fatman17]

Thank you. One always hopes for startling bits of info but what @Oscar has mentioned I remember having read on the net earlier. The fact remains that the Chinese will have to fund the J31 by themselves and perhaps even buy some for themselves before others will have the confidence to venture in. The JF17 experience and rthe denial to abide by an agreement(Source is again news articles so if someone knows better please let us know) has taught the PAF a good lesson. I dont think it will fall for the same trick again. As time passes by more options will emerge and allow PAF to look else where for collaboration/joint ventures. A bit of competition will get the Chinese armaments juggernaut to start moving in the right direction as well. This would be a win win situation for all.
Let watch this space.
A


My friend!
It looks increasingly like JFT will run into the mid to late 20s with upto 5-6 blocks of 50s.PAFs options are extremely limited at the moment and will remain so till new avenues open up. Whether they lead to the same source or others remains to be seen.
A

Options open up when one has a lot of money, so basically it's up to us to vastly improve our economy. There is no other way and the civilian govt will only do so much on the economic front to be able to provide limited resources for the military. This is one way of keeping the men in uniform in check.

 

[aliyusuf]

The first prototype - i.e. J-31 - was shown as a technology demonstrator or an example that China is capable of developing and producing a 5th generation fighter. When the J-31 was shown to the public for the first time in 2014, its aerial performance was not received well. Anyways, in 2015 AVIC promised that the final product - i.e. FC-31 - would be much improved, but in order to push the program forward, it required external development funding. To date, no one - not even Pakistan - has taken them up on that offer.

Sir, wouldn't this imply that the next generation fighter that the PAF is looking for will be considerably delayed in getting inducted. Correct me if I am wrong, then the only option would be a joint venture with Turkey or China after the infrastructure and requisite manpower necessary for such a program is developed and start functioning at the Aviation City. Will it not be safe to say that we are not getting any stealth fighter before 2030 or even later?

If the above case is true, then we will only be having later block iterations of the JF-17 and nothing else. The capabilities gap during the next 5 to 10 years will become critically lopsided in the adversaries favor.