PAF Single engined Doctrine Good or Bad.

[Bossman]

There is no such thing as a single engine doctrine. PAF operated twin engined F6s until about ten years ago and B57s before that. It is about the role, operating cost and effectiveness. Twin engine planes like the SU 30s are maintainence, fuel and manpower hogs. F16s and even JF17 can undertake 2 or even 3 sorties in the time and cost it will take an SU 30 to do one sortie. PAF has almost 2 to 1 ratio of pilots to planes where as IAF has a shortage of pilots so it can maintain almost the same level of sorties as IAF with less planes. In an any case in a nuclear and missile environment there is no need to match aircrafts one to one. If one goes by historical analogy, SU-30s are like the Prithivi Raj's elephants and F16s and JF17s like Afghan ponies and we all know how that ended. In order words big is not always better. And finally the proof is in the pudding, IAF was not able to do any thing after the Parliament or the Mumbai incidents despite "superior fighters and superior numbers" except produce a lot of hot air.

 

[Storm Force]

Bossman

I wouldn,t bank on statements like

IAF was not able to do any thing after the Parliament or the Mumbai incidents despite "superior fighters and superior numbers" except produce a lot of hot air.

SU-30s are like the Prithivi Raj's elephants and F16s and JF17s like Afghan ponies and we all know how that ended

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...its-single-engine-doctrine.html#ixzz2EaVHOZU5

PAF has a handful of sanction prone F16s (yes 63 F16 is handfull in front of 270 su30 mki)

AS for JF17 this deemed inferior to J10

And even the J10 came up WAY short over the J11 (the Prithivi Raj's elephants )

 

[SBD-3]

There is a massive THREAD in the chinease subsection talking about the J11 flankers trouncing the J10 vanguards in mock combat excercises of very large scale similar to USA RED FLAG.

oNE OF THE chinease POSTERS atrributed J11 success to RAW POWER of jammers and EW suites of the bigger J11.

The chinease are adding a lot of twin engined fighters to their fleet as we speak obviously impressed with the FLANKERS .

FOR OUR PAK POSTERS this is must read because ALOT OF PEOPLE are hoping that the PAF long term answer to 270+ SU30MKI was a combo of J10 JF17.. ESP J10B#

THIS WILL A REAL EYE OPENER TO PAF TOPBRASS

PREHAPS to the point they dont order J10B at all

an go for the formidable J11 from china instead

As far as I know about the Mock combats held few years ago. Flankers were completely annihilated by J-10s.....which mock combats are you referring to?

 

[Storm Force]

hasnain

I am referring to the EXCERCISES held by PLAAF last month their version of RED FLAG

J11b beat the J10 vanguard 42 TO 0 according to the chinease new reports below

http://www.defence.pk/forums/chinese-defence/223310-j-11-crushes-j-10-plaaf-exercise.html

 

[Storm Force]

Personally I THINK A MIXED fleet of twin engined heavey Multi role fighters and cheaper lighter agile single seaters is the BEST option.

USA & ISRAEL & SOUTH KOREA = F15 & F16 (F22 & F35) IN FUTURE

PLAAF J11 / SU30/27 FLANKERS & J10 F7 (J20/J31 in future)

 

[Bossman]

Bossman

I wouldn,t bank on statements like

IAF was not able to do any thing after the Parliament or the Mumbai incidents despite "superior fighters and superior numbers" except produce a lot of hot air.



PAF has a handful of sanction prone F16s (yes 63 F16 is handfull in front of 270 su30 mki)

AS for JF17 this deemed inferior to J10

And even the J10 came up WAY short over the J11 (the Prithivi Raj's elephants )

I would not bank on 270 SU 30 MKIs to make a premptive strikes if they don't have airfields to go back to. As I said and you did not read my earlier post i.e. in a nuclear missile environment there is no need to match planes to planes. The best favor India did for Pakistan was to go nuclear so Pakistan could also go nuclear thus nullifying the conventional advantage India always had over Pakistan and will always would, so stay calm and continue your Ram Ram. It was Raja Dahir's and Prithivi's arrogance and overconfidence that led to a 1000 year of Muslim rule over India. People like you are suffering from the same problem. You can still loose despite your 270 MKIs. I don't think Pakistan is losing too much sleep over your MKIs, which says a lot.

 

[ares]

Bossman

I wouldn,t bank on statements like



I would not bank on 270 SU 30 MKIs to make a premptive strikes if they don't have airfields to go back to. As I said and you did not read my earlier post i.e. in a nuclear missile environment there is no need to match planes to planes. The best favor India did for Pakistan was to go nuclear so Pakistan could also go nuclear thus nullifying the conventional advantage India always had over Pakistan and will always would, so stay calm and continue your Ram Ram. It was Prithivi's arrogance and overconfidence that led to a 1000 year of Muslim rule over India. People like you are suffering from the same problem. You can still loose despite your 270 MKIs.

r
Guess your leaders must pretty stupid since they continue invest in new weapons, maintaining a army and navy and air-force...whereas you could have just laid off you army as soon as you acquired nukes.
Or
Perhaps they understand better than you, that a sword can not do a needle's work.
because any sensible person understands a country can not use it nukes before certain red lines are crossed ..as they are weapon of last resort.. use single nuclear weapon is but a death warrant for Pakistan.

 

[Bossman]

r
Guess your leaders must pretty stupid since they continue invest in new weapons, maintaining a army and navy and air-force...whereas you could have just laid off you army as soon as you acquired nukes.
Or
Perhaps they understand better than you, that a sword can not do a needle's work.
because any sensible person understands a country can not use it nukes before certain red lines are crossed ..as they are weapon of last resort.. use single nuclear weapon is but a death warrant for Pakistan.

and for India, so try what you want to try. A threshold is lower than you think. MAD is based on both parties behaving rationally. There is no guarantee Pakistan will behave rationally, it never has. It is willing to be a collective nuclear sucide bomber. It will go down and take you down with it.

 

[ares]

and for India, so try what you want to try.

Perhaps as of now..but things are changing.Unlike you, we are investing in technologies which will ensure our survival, even in a nuclear war.

 

[Bossman]

Perhaps as of now..but things are changing.Unlike you, we are investing in technologies which will ensure our survival, even in a nuclear war.

Again you are underestimating Pakistan. You simply have to use Google Earth to view how much Pakistan has invested in nuclear proof, undergound infrastructure. Each major airfield has huge undergound bunkers. There are other huge underground facilties in Kirana hills, Kirthar mountains, Coastal mountain range, in Baluchistan, in potohar plataeu, in the Karakorams etc. etc. Most of our MBTs are NBC proof and infantry is trained to operate in NBC environment so get off your high horse and see the light.

 

[SQ8]

Discussed to death all over.
Please refer to older threads WHERE THE OP POSTED THE SAME ARGUMENTS.
CLOSED.