Twin Engined J-10? What Happened to it

[Armchair]

their will be no stealth version of JFT according to PAF and former air chief Marshall

There will be an Azm. You missed what was being discussed - Azm as a larger, stealthier JF-17 based layout.

 

[Ultima Thule]

There will be an Azm. You missed what was being discussed - Azm as a larger, stealthier JF-17 based layout.

Not at all because it will structurally mechanically different from JFT

 

[Deino]

There will be an Azm. You missed what was being discussed - Azm as a larger, stealthier JF-17 based layout.

Pardon again to contradict, but this seems again your own private conclusion based on what evidence?

From my understanding it would be plain stupid if not impossible to base a fifth generation type like AZM on a single engined fourth generation type. As such it will be all around a clean sheet new design.

 

[Akh1112]

"Would have been" is the correct description, but that would be a what-if thread at best. Given the title you chose "Twin Engined J-10? What Happened to it" it would be a thread for the China section but anyway, You already got your reply from several others including me: it's dead !

1. we don't even know if it was ever a real project.
2. if it was ever real, r´then it was cancelled long ago and is no longer a viable option
3. if the PAF indeed is interested in a medium-weight Chinese fighter then it can only hope for the J-10B/C (at the cost of a different engine), the FC-31 (at the cost of not being finished) or something new like AZM, but surely not this one.
4. I know our friend MK thinks since some time in this direction and even if in principle I agree with him, it is not that easy to simply (as he always says) add a second engine to the J-10 since this would be de fact a new aircraft and I'm sure CHina won't pay for it esp when the FC-31 is the same one generation ahead.

IIRC it was real at one point. It was in case the J-20 didnt work out, the J-10 didnt leave the drawing board as it did work out.

Anyway, man, dont waste your time on these guys, some people on this forum are beyond delusional.

 

[The Raven]

Please clean your mouth and come back otherwise I will reply in kind and you will again start your hissy fit.

Learn to read, he's not calling YOU stupid, but the idea.

 

[Akh1112]

There will be an Azm. You missed what was being discussed - Azm as a larger, stealthier JF-17 based layout.

Excuse me? Lol. So ACM is wrong and you are right?

 

[Armchair]

Excuse me? Lol. So ACM is wrong and you are right?

So the idea, floated by TheTallGuy (not me by the way), is that the Azm will be a stealthy, larger development of the basic JF-17 layout. This doesn't contradict the ACM imho but I'm sure we can had a difference of opinion in a relatively polite manner.

 

[Deino]

Please clean your mouth and come back otherwise I will reply in kind and you will again start your hissy fit.

Slowly I have enough of You and still I keep calm: What's your point ? All over in several threads you are claiming BS, unproven speculations and nonsense and alone a kind question why you think so or a reminder not to present it as a fact but as YOUR OWN opinion immediately results again in such rants and insults!

I really think You have some issues either you take yourself as godfather of all-knowing and every possible critics has to be smashed down with the most aggressive reaction.

Again: get mature man and learn, this is a forum ... other opinions are not only allowed, they are even the reason for forums, namely to exchange opinions based on facts and considerations. If you only want to post your beliefs, then go and make an Instagram or Twitter-account!

So the idea, floated by TheTallGuy (not me by the way), is that the Azm will be a stealthy, larger development of the basic JF-17 layout. This doesn't contradict the ACM imho but I'm sure we can had a difference of opinion in a relatively polite manner.

Yes we can all be polite ... the only one who seems not is YOU!

And who the hell is this TheTallGuy ?? Your godfather of all knowing ! He also has an opinion like we all others at least allowed to have too, but there's no reason, not a single one to think he is correct esp, since all reliable reports say otherwise. AZM will be - if ever - a fifth generation type and surely NOT a up-scaled twin-engined JF-17 or a twin-engined phantasy-J-10PLUS.

 

[Deino]

So calling people stupid and expecting a polite reply is your idea of being mature? And using emojis. New definition of maturity.




here comes another hissy fit. Brace for it. Tons of calling people names with emojis. Our mature Deino.

Once again - and maybe reading comprehension is another issue you have besides accepting other member's opinions: I said the idea to develop a fifth generation type on a small fourth generation fighter is stupid ... I never said you.

If you however interpret it this way, I'm out since it simply seems you cannot properly read or you always want to twist words and feel attacked in order to insult as a counter-aggression.

 

[Akh1112]

So the idea, floated by TheTallGuy (not me by the way), is that the Azm will be a stealthy, larger development of the basic JF-17 layout. This doesn't contradict the ACM imho but I'm sure we can had a difference of opinion in a relatively polite manner.

"The Chief of Air Staff further added that the current Air Staff Requirements (ASR) for the 5th generation fighter jet, which include “twin-engine single-seater, boasting the likes of super-cruise and laser weapons (directed energy weapons).”"

sooo, whos right? This tall guy or COAS?

 

[Armchair]

Between, mature people don't throw around such words as "stupid" our mature friend. Since you are so mature, you should use this word more carefully.

 

[Akh1112]

Between, mature people don't throw around such words as "stupid" our mature friend. Since you are so mature, you should use this word more carefully.

Mature people also dont spread false, moronic rumours then throw a hissy fit when called out

 

[Armchair]

"The Chief of Air Staff further added that the current Air Staff Requirements (ASR) for the 5th generation fighter jet, which include “twin-engine single-seater, boasting the likes of super-cruise and laser weapons (directed energy weapons).”"

sooo, whos right? This tall guy or COAS?

Good point. I'm with you that a twin engine makes more sense. However, here are a few points you are pointing to:
1. Twin engine (during development, this could be rethought)
2. Super cruising (let's hope, will depend on engine power)
3. laser weapons (no contradiction or disagreement)
4. 5th generation (other reports suggest 5.5). This means little as a stealthy layout would kind of be open to interpretation if its 5th or 5.5. or "4.9" as some Europeans like to talk of.

Mature people also dont spread false, moronic rumours then throw a hissy fit when called out

I've replied politely to you. I'm not sure where that came from. By the way, what false rumour have I spread? Good luck getting a positive response next time.



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I'm going to trudge along despite the multiple hijacking attempts here to derail the thread.

A twin engine vs a single engine.

A twin engine conventional layout makes no sense for the Azm because it would be too close to the J-31 and would essentially be a modified J-31. Which is what TheTallGuy suggested may be the most logical thing to do for Pakistan.

If its a twin engined conventional layout, it would be hard to believe its going to be a newly conceived design as the CAS suggested. So either way, you end up with a contradiction. In one case, its not a freshly conceived design as the CAS suggests, and in the other case - it makes no sense to reinvent the wheel when there is a J-31.

As of now, I'm thinking that the Azm will be a clean-sheet design. Either a conventional layout or a canard delta. The following possibilities exist for it:
1. An enlarged, stealthy JF-17 type design with WS-15. (by that I mean a conventional layout very broadly similar to the JF-17 / F-16.
2. A J-31 derivative
3. A "twin engined J-10" derivative that is designed with relative stealth in mind.

 

[The Raven]

Good point. I'm with you that a twin engine makes more sense. However, here are a few points you are pointing to:
1. Twin engine (during development, this could be rethought)
2. Super cruising (let's hope, will depend on engine power)
3. laser weapons (no contradiction or disagreement)
4. 5th generation (other reports suggest 5.5). This means little as a stealthy layout would kind of be open to interpretation if its 5th or 5.5. or "4.9" as some Europeans like to talk of.



I've replied politely to you. I'm not sure where that came from. By the way, what false rumour have I spread? Good luck getting a positive response next time.

The Tall Guy corrected your false assumption, he even explicitly said you misunderstood him. He was referring to "replicating" the JF-17 PROGRAMME, i.e. joint collaboration with CAC, not LITERALLY replicating the JF-17 into a twin engine fifth gen fighter, because that would be stupid. There's no convincing indication whether project Azm will be based on an existing design, i.e. the FC-31, or clean sheet. But if the collaboration with CAC is correct, it's most likely to be a clean sheet design, and given the other specs we know so far, that would also support the idea of a clean sheet design, designed specifically for PAF requirments, much like the JF-17.

@Armchair
Project Azm.
This where you have understood correctly - PAC or Pakistan itself does not have the required technology or technical experience to pull it off except replicating JF17 Project.what different is this time we are in learning curve previously Chinese were in learning curve because of our experience in operating F16s and weapon system deployment.

So, every thing points to joint collaboration remember we do not have experience in 5th Gen aircraft - Zero/nada where as PLAAF is operating 1 x 5th Gen fighter and developing an other.

My personal believe is Project Azm is J31/35 but that is my opinion. its seems a logical!

But even when you have been corrected, you've been banging on about Azm being based on a twin engine JF-17. So yes, you are spreading BS and fake made up crap to suite your own fantasies.

There will be an Azm. You missed what was being discussed - Azm as a larger, stealthier JF-17 based layout.

 

[Deino]

I've replied politely to you. I'm not sure where that came from. By the way, what false rumour have I spread? Good luck getting a positive response next time.

It is not even a rumour, it is a misinterpretation on your own and as we see, "The Tall Guy" even corrected your false assumption and explicitly said you misunderstood him. As such it is indeed WRONG - in order to avoid the term stupid - to stick on this issue; not sure what's so difficult to understand.

And as such it is more than justified to ask for an explanation instead of a rude insult only since You cannot explain why you still take your own wrong misinterpretation for granted? ... the fact alone, that someone else posted this does not make it correct.
And as such positive agreements are also irrelevant. This is exactly the same way MK and some others "agreed" in all their wisdom the Block 3 JF-17 will get an Italian engine, all shared positive ratings and used these are proof for their claim while at the same time refused to explain why they think such an engine could be an option regardless that none exists.

Therefore again kindly asked: PLEASE explain WHY you think AZM is nothing but a pimped-up twin-engined JF-17.