PAF AND IAF 4th gen Aircraft Losses, shocking comparison

[Tejas Spokesman]

thats why i call you INDIOT! because your make no sense.

Since Mirages were on CAP meaning they were already in air, its combat radius wont allow it to return back to base some 450km away. Do keep in mind that in CAP alot of fuel is burned with constant use of after burner in a zig zag pattern to avoid locks.
Same with even Su-30 in order to reach 500km distance it would need to travel at mach 1 to reach the action which would take 30 min and that would burn up most of fuel preventing it to return back to original base. unless you suggest the super sakti cow mutra was injected in its fuel system for extra boost.
Btw one of Pakistan's condition to reopen its airspace for Indian commercial flights is to have IAF withdraw its advance fighter jets from forward air bases closer to border.

Only Indian propaganda factories can fool indiots without logic.

Wrong again.
Those two Mirages were part of just 4 Mirages seconded to Udhampur for forward duty.
There no full or even half squadrons of 4th gen jets in entire J&K.
No J&K bases are suitable for Su-30s as all of tehm lack the hardened shelters needed for Su30s size

India did not withdraw any jets from forward bases.

Any link? Thought not...

iSu30si am not going to post agenda and make my name public.
But his speech will broadcasted live on 14th December

 

[Windjammer]

BTW here is a shocker for PAF fans, Alan Warnes will next month visit India for Mil Lit fest 2019 where he will present PAFs perspective on 27th feb but will also state that he (Alan Warnes) does not think any Su-30 was shot down.

This is not the first time he will be visiting India, apart from covering operations after Gujarat earthquake, Alan Warnes was there during one of Indra Dhanush exercises. It's another thing that IAF Commander started boasting about shooting down a Tornado during exercise despite earlier agreeing with his RAF counterpart not to reveal anything to reporters except the usual pleasantries.
As for your highlighted part, I can burst your bubble with just one call....so stop posting nonsense to give relief to your tiny ego.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

We lost only one jet (an obsolete MiG-21) also their was no damage ti milutary infrastructure on ground so absolutely no need to retaliate

If PAF wanted to it could have easily guided SOW to military infrastructure but at last min before impact directed to nearby uninhabited area... PAF mirage pilots showed more courage since they had to manually guide TV guided AGM while IAF Mirages which took off from Srinagar base with full after burner and released pre programmed Spice kit and ran away before even entering Pak air space.

In strategic terms it was a huge Indian victory as Feb 26 was death blow to all insurgency in J&K and security forces casualties in J&K in March to Nov 2019 fell by 70% compared to similar periods in 2016-18.

Its Indian hobby to imagine stuff...

watch this IAF Spice tests.. this is what 2,000 lbs Spice does to hardened structures. and dont give me this bull shit that IAF used only 50kg of tnt on spice because it is logically incorrect. all 2,000lbs create more damage then just 1 imaginary pixel hole on a roof top on a underground bunker.

 

[The Eagle]

Wrong again.

Start another post with such provocation & then, you can call it "once you were on the Forum" like this.

Instead of emphasis to prove anyone wrong; your approach has to be like sharing your analysis and data and let's others to see & weight the worthy arguments. I have gone through the thread and almost every link you posted connects to nationalist bravado write-up in regard to availability of Fleet beside you have to start your post with same provocative sentence.

Can you ask anyone that you know (CO or some Junior Cadre employee), i.e. Air Marshal from IAF (make sure you aren't then being shown on TV being honey trapped by ISI) to prove availability claims under the same figure being disclosed by your own DoD? When you are trying to prove something in regard to official stand point; make sure you are either quoting the official source directly in-case DoD isn't available or DoD observations be shared.

Awaiting & regards,

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Wrong again.
Those two Mirages were part of just 4 Mirages seconded to Udhampur for forward duty.
There no full or even half squadrons of 4th gen jets in entire J&K.

you cant even keep up with your stories. your bases keep changing.

The only 2 Su-30s initially over Kashmir on 27th were two from Sirsa based 15th sqn and the 2 mirage 2000s were from Ambala.

No J&K bases are suitable for Su-30s as all of tehm lack the hardened shelters needed for Su30s size

You proved my point

India did not withdraw any jets from forward bases.

and here you go,

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...my-brigade-hq-on-wednesday-1466667-2019-02-27
Immediately, four Su-30MKi fighter jets and two MiG-21 jets took off from Srinagar and Awantipora to tackle the intruders.

so that proves my point, Su-30 and Mirages were present within 50km of PAF strike radius and IAF was too scared to scramble more fighters.

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

A few interception is not war.
Only 10 shootdowns in 6-7 years cannot be classifed as war.
You cannot exclude years as you wiah just because there were a number of crashes.


Lol.
Why are you skipping page 1 of your link. If you include page 1 the number is 25.

Strategy page is not a reliable source.
PAF has 6.5 sqdns of Mirages so max number in fleet is 120-125 since a squadron has on average 18 jets


Also in 2019 PAF has 75 F-7s (45 F-7PG, 9 FT-7PG and 20 odd F-7P/FT-7P).

Few intersection in combat for 10 years is not a war?
Then what is the definition of a war?

 

[Tejas Spokesman]

you cant even keep up with your stories. your bases keep changing.

It is tou you who is changing stories.
Amballa has a detachment of 8 Mirages with 2-4 deployed at forward loc like Udhampur

 

[Daghalodi]

you cant even keep up with your stories. your bases keep changing.



You proved my point


and here you go, shove your head in toilet (if you have any) in shame.



so that proves my point, Su-30 and Mirages were present within 50km of PAF strike radius and IAF was too scared to scramble more fighters.

Omg he must be having a heart attack by now!! You busted his bollywood fantasy, Sheesh

 

[Tejas Spokesman]

so that proves my point, Su-30 and Mirages were present within 50km of PAF strike radius and IAF was too scared to scramble more fighters.

manjeet negi is worthless source.
Even your Kaiser Tufail admitted their were only 2 Su-30s and 4-5 MiG-21s And Not 2 MiG21s and 4 Su30s like this nobody journo Manjeet Negi is saying.

On 8th October IAF revealed Su30s Avenger 1 & 2 and showed that they were from Sirsa based No 15 squadron.

No Su 30s are based in Kashmir:
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/lac...-respond-to-paf-intrusion-with-mig-21s-first/

Few intersection in combat for 10 years is not a war?
Then what is the definition of a war?

Air combat almost everyday just like 1965 and 1971 wars.

 

[Windjammer]

Simply by flying this formation, the IAF has shot it'self in the foot and inadvertently revealed/admitted the obvious.....this is as credible as Abhinandan flying another MiG-21 and claiming that IAF didn't even lose one on 27th February. This trick would have worked only if IAF had 2 SU-30s and 3 Mirage-2000 on strength......desperation can make you act in more idiotic fashion.

 

[ziaulislam]

there are many words in India that we use for Pakistanis like you, but will refrain myself from going down to your levels.

The US F-16C fleet reported a mission capable rate of 70.22 percent in October, 2018. So you guys are claiming better availability of your f -16 fleets, which are much older and without supply of spares than the OEMs...

Only idiots dare to claim that ? by the way has your PAF ever published availability rates of your aircrafts or those numbers are deemed to be too damaging for idiots like you on PDF?

Who says f16 has no spare parts? I mean this isnt 1990s..you just woke up from long sleep???

We dont know what is PAF serviciebility as i dont see that being disclosed

Having said PAF or USAF can schieve a higher servicibity if it desires to do so...lot of factors come into play ...usually a target is set abd that is maintained..for USAF its 70%..i dont know what PAF has set for f16

But faster you out it back into service the higher rate you can acheive(provided u have the man power and spares)...i dont know about PAF but from audit reports it seems IAF has neither the man power nor the spares from Russia

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

manjeet negi is worthless source.
Even your Kaiser Tufail admitted their were only 2 Su-30s and 4-5 MiG-21s And Not 2 MiG21s and 4 Su30s like this nobody journo Manjeet Negi is saying.

On 8th October IAF revealed Su30s Avenger 1 & 2 and showed that they were from Sirsa based No 15 squadron.

No Su 30s are based in Kashmir:
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/lac...-respond-to-paf-intrusion-with-mig-21s-first/


Air combat almost everyday just like 1965 and 1971 wars.

Air combat almost every week for 10 years with shooting of at least dozen aircraft's is called a war.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Aircraft attrition is a norm for all air forces. These can be attributed to accidents (eg bird hits), poor maintenance or enemy action. However the frequency of attrition is what distinguishes competency. We can go on into big detail about the 3rd generation fighter plane attrition but for now let's focus just on the 4th gen fighters such as the F-16, Mig-29, Mirage 2000's, SU-30's and JF-17's

FIRST, the PAF

Since induction PAF has lost 9 F-16's, according to the most up to date database:

http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/F-16/mishaps-and-accidents/airforce/PAF/

Interesting fact in which 8 of those losses happened in 1994 or earlier, and that SINCE 1994 there has only been one loss which was in 2009.

And to my knowledge there have been 2 JF-17's lost (someone correct me if I am wrong), meaning a total of 11 4th generation planes lost since induction, and ONLY 3 SINCE 1994. A pretty decent record.

NOW, the IAF

Since induction, the IAF has lost an admitted 42 4th generation planes, this is according to their own database:

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Database/Accidents/

These include:
12 Mirage 2000's
19 Mig-29's (including the one that went down couple of days ago in Goa)
11 Su-30's (NOT INCLUDING the possible Feb 27th one, in which case it would be 12 and therefore 43 lost in total )

and SINCE 1994 COMPARED TO THE PAF 3, IAF lost 33 4th gen planes (8 Mirage 2000, 14 Mig-29's, and 11 Su-30's)


Pretty stark comparison

IAF are largely incompetent.

Wish all these saved jets won at least a single war for Pakistan though. Get Kashmir, save East Pakistan. Sad story.

kidding.

 

[ziaulislam]

We lost only one jet (an obsolete MiG-21) also their was no damage ti milutary infrastructure on ground so absolutely no need to retaliate

In strategic terms it was a huge Indian victory as Feb 26 was death blow to all insurgency in J&K and security forces casualties in J&K in March to Nov 2019 fell by 70% compared to similar periods in 2016-18.

So why did we need to retaliate ? Jay hind to the poor souls of helicopter that technically was shot down due to PAF incursion

So you guys have no redlines?
Good
So we can come and go as please ?!

 

[Lasit Borphukan]

Start another post with such provocation & then, you can call it "once you were on the Forum" like this.

Instead of emphasis to prove anyone wrong; your approach has to be like sharing your analysis and data and let's others to see & weight the worthy arguments. I have gone through the thread and almost every link you posted connects to nationalist bravado write-up in regard to availability of Fleet beside you have to start your post with same provocative sentence.

Can you ask anyone that you know (CO or some Junior Cadre employee), i.e. Air Marshal from IAF (make sure you aren't then being shown on TV being honey trapped by ISI) to prove availability claims under the same figure being disclosed by your own DoD? When you are trying to prove something in regard to official stand point; make sure you are either quoting the official source directly in-case DoD isn't available or DoD observations be shared.

Awaiting & regards,

Great that a moderator has responded. Its good that you have asked for valid links for each claims and counter claims. I guess you meant both for Pakistani and Indian commentators.

@The Eagle .. also look at the language of some of the commentators. I believe words like "rapistan" "randian" "indiot" "cow piss drinkers" etc are way below the community guideline standard of PDF. Or should I believe that these words are now part of Pakistani vocabulary