Iran Kowsar Jet Surprise (production line)

[Ray_Atek]

no they are not for example non of Su-30 hard-point are wet plumbed but they can carry heavy weight , what i say is just physics , pylon 3 & 4 & 5 are the central and the two pylon adjacent to the body so they put a lot less stress on the body and wing if you put heavier weapon on them, you see the more you go away from the body, heavier weight put a lot more stress on the body it simply follow law of levers. guess this explain it better

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lever

yes , it is definition of torque in mechanic.
But wet-plumbed word is belong to fighter maintenance men.

 

[TheImmortal]

the dilemma is that only pylon stations 3, 4 and 5 are wet-plumbed and only those pylon can carry heavy weight armament and on the wingtip you only can carry missile in class of sidewinder ,so the only solution for the use you want is use sidewinder or something like that on wing tip and then build something as light as AIM-120 to use on Pylon 2 & 6 and then then use a tank on Pylon 4 for some additional fuel then remain pylon 3 and 5 if the range is important then you have no choice but to use them for tanks or if not then again for A2A missiles with the weight of less than 200kg.
but again the second configuration with 5 A2A missile and only one tank give any decent fighter/bomber the chance to outrun you because you lack the range

Why are we even entertaining this absurd notion?

First of all why would you equip A2A missiles on SUBSONIC aircraft? Air superiority fighters need to be supersonic and reach contested airspace quickly. Kowsar is a slow fighter with limited range.

Second if by my some miracle the radar on an Kowsar could even locate an severely reduced RCS fighter like an F-35 or F-22, by the time the Kowsar gets in range to illuminate the target the F-22/F-35 will have long ago detected it and already sent A2A flying straight for the Kowsar.

The Kowsar being a subsonic fighter would then have to drop armaments and fuel tanks in hopes of being to escape, but it’s subsonic speed makes it harder to outmaneuver a modern A2A missile. Without proper counter measures the Kowsar is lost.

Finally why would Iran rely on old A2A technology to bring down 5th gen when in reality the air defense forces have a much better shot?

Kowsar is a subsonic and advanced trainer similar to Yak-130 for purpose. Most CAS tend to be subsonic so they can loiter in the battlefield longer.

 

[Ray_Atek]

Why are we even entertaining this absurd notion?

First of all why would you equip A2A missiles on SUBSONIC aircraft? Air superiority fighters need to be supersonic and reach contested airspace quickly. Kowsar is a slow fighter with limited range.

Second if by my some miracle the radar on an Kowsar could even locate an severely reduced RCS fighter like an F-35 or F-22, by the time the Kowsar gets in range to illuminate the target the F-22/F-35 will have long ago detected it and already sent A2A flying straight for the Kowsar.

The Kowsar being a subsonic fighter would then have to drop armaments and fuel tanks in hopes of being to escape, but it’s subsonic speed makes it harder to outmaneuver a modern A2A missile. Without proper counter measures the Kowsar is lost.

Finally why would Iran rely on old A2A technology to bring down 5th gen when in reality the air defense forces have a much better shot?

Kowsar is a subsonic and advanced trainer similar to Yak-130 for purpose. Most CAS tend to be subsonic so they can loiter in the battlefield longer.

Kowsar has cruize speed less than 1000km/hr but it is a supersonic fighter jets and can be used as a point defence fighter .
It's radar can not detect f22 or f35 but can detect f15 and f16 and it is enough but iran need to design some device and strategy against f22 and f35 also.
My be kulchoga radar or a combined defence.
Secondly it is not logical to have many parallel projects With one obtained role, kowsar88, qaher, saeqeh1 all as a CAS fighter jet .

 

[TheImmortal]

Kowsar has cruize speed less than 1000km/hr but it is a supersonic fighter jets and can be used as a point defence fighter .
It's radar can not detect f22 or f35 but can detect f15 and f16 and it is enough but iran need to design some device and strategy against f22 and f35 also.
My be kulchoga radar or a combined defence.

F-15 and F-16 will not be in Iranian airspace unless

A) Iran’s Air defense systems and Air Force are completely destroyed/severely degraded

B) Escorted by F-22

So again, this notion of F-5 as A2A fighter jet is absurd. It will likely face F-22/F-35 before it will even seen a F-16. Even against a F-16/F-18 it will be a major underdog.

You are basically sending the pilot to his death.

 

[Ray_Atek]

F-15 and F-16 will not be in Iranian airspace unless

A) Iran’s Air defense systems and Air Force are completely destroyed/severely degraded

B) Escorted by F-22

So again, this notion of F-5 as A2A fighter jet is absurd. It will likely face F-22/F-35 before it will even seen a F-16. Even against a F-16/F-18 it will be a major underdog.

You are basically sending the pilot to his death.

Which of world fighter jet can stand against f22?
It is not a reason to down all of your hand fill possibility .

 

[sahureka2]

A question to the experts: from the F-5 II, the original F-5F, the fuselage has been lengthened by 1.02 meters (3 feet and 4 inches)

if you use the two-seater Kowsar that should have almost the same dimensions as the F-5F to make a single-seater version, it would be possible to increase the capacity of the fuel tanks in the fuselage, increasing the autonomy.
Could it be a valid option?

here I made a pothoshop turning the first Kowsar turned into a single-seater

so the problem of autonomy could be solved

Post Scriptum
armament:
I think that for the Kowsar one could be satisfied with 2 long / medium-range and 2 short-range missiles, because if we load too much armament both speed and autonomy would be lower

 

[T-72B]

Which of world fighter jet can stand against f22?
It is not a reason to down all of your hand fill possibility .

Su-35 can be deterrent against F-22 and F-35 correct me if i’m wrong

Does Kowsar can be compre with Indian MiG-21 Bison?

 

[TheImmortal]

Su-35 can be deterrent against F-22 and F-35 correct me if i’m wrong

Does Kowsar can be compre with Indian MiG-21 Bison?

Kowsar is F-5 airframe with a modernized avionics/sensor package.

 

[Ray_Atek]

A question to the experts: from the F-5 II, the original F-5F, the fuselage has been lengthened by 1.02 meters (3 feet and 4 inches)

if you use the two-seater Kowsar that should have almost the same dimensions as the F-5F to make a single-seater version, it would be possible to increase the capacity of the fuel tanks in the fuselage, increasing the autonomy.
Could it be a valid option?

here I made a pothoshop turning the first Kowsar turned into a single-seater

so the problem of autonomy could be solved

Post Scriptum
armament:
I think that for the Kowsar one could be satisfied with 2 long / medium-range and 2 short-range missiles, because if we load too much armament both speed and autonomy would be lower

Good idea but the acceleration is lower than f5e

Su-35 can be deterrent against F-22 and F-35 correct me if i’m wrong

Does Kowsar can be compre with Indian MiG-21 Bison?

I think mig21 bison is better than f5e in some features.
But look at it's engine if you put it on f5.

 

[salman-1]

Does any body has complete specs for the kowsar fighter.
Any info on weight to thrust ratio? What's the flight control its using. What's the internal fuel capacity?, what's the internal electrical interface being used. Is it mil-std 1550 or1750.? Engine thrust dry and full aft.
Only then a true picture can be sorted out for its performance. Other wise wild guesses won't be able to prove its capability ever.

 

[Ray_Atek]

Does any body has complete specs for the kowsar fighter.
Any info on weight to thrust ratio? What's the flight control its using. What's the internal fuel capacity?, what's the internal electrical interface being used. Is it mil-std 1550 or1750.? Engine thrust dry and full aft.
Only then a true picture can be sorted out for its performance. Other wise wild guesses won't be able to prove its capability ever.

Based on f5f not better specs except of its avionics.
capability????

 

[sahureka2]

Ok, If you use Kowsar two-seater to make a single-seater version, it would be possible to increase the capacity of the fuel tanks in the fuselage, which also increases the autonomy.

Sorry, I continue with my hypothesis.

Increasing the autonomy only with the internal tanks, one could think of renouncing the large additional tank of the ventral pylon, which can be replaced by a long-range heavy anti-aircraft missile or alternatively an anti-ship missile or bombs.
If you then want to increase the autonomy you can use two additional tanks hooked to the internal pylons of the wings.

here I created another photoshop

 

[Sineva]

Ok, If you use Kowsar two-seater to make a single-seater version, it would be possible to increase the capacity of the fuel tanks in the fuselage, which also increases the autonomy.

Sorry, I continue with my hypothesis.

Increasing the autonomy only with the internal tanks, one could think of renouncing the large additional tank of the ventral pylon, which can be replaced by a long-range heavy anti-aircraft missile or alternatively an anti-ship missile or bombs.
If you then want to increase the autonomy you can use two additional tanks hooked to the internal pylons of the wings.

here I created another photoshop

Thats actually a pretty neat idea using the stretched 2 seater airframe.[nice photoshop by the way]
Sadly tho` I think the fakour 90 just isnt viable,its way too big and heavy and without a decent radar or at least the ability to datalink with a longer ranged radar you`re just not going to get the advantages of the missiles very long range.A better a2a loadout would be a 2+2 mix of bvr and wvr missiles,ideally 2 r77 and 2 r73,another option might be a 2+2+2[2 r77,2 r73 and 2 r60 wingtip rail mounts],but I dont really see it carrying much more than that in the a2a role.Another interesting option would be ditching the 2 20mm m39 cannons and replacing them with either a singe or twin 30mm gsh-30-1 cannon[same as on the mig29 and su30],as this is a lot lighter[46kg vs 80kg] and only a little bit longer and packs a massive punch compared to the 20mm and has a similar rof and mv,tho you might have to relocate the guns to either the underside or sides of the nose as the gun does have a hell of a muzzle flash.

 

[sahureka2]

Thats actually a pretty neat idea using the stretched 2 seater airframe.[nice photoshop by the way]
Sadly tho` I think the fakour 90 just isnt viable,its way too big and heavy and without a decent radar or at least the ability to datalink with a longer ranged radar you`re just not going to get the advantages of the missiles very long range.A better a2a loadout would be a 2+2 mix of bvr and wvr missiles,ideally 2 r77 and 2 r73,another option might be a 2+2+2[2 r77,2 r73 and 2 r60 wingtip rail mounts],but I dont really see it carrying much more than that in the a2a role.Another interesting option would be ditching the 2 20mm m39 cannons and replacing them with either a singe or twin 30mm gsh-30-1 cannon[same as on the mig29 and su30],as this is a lot lighter[46kg vs 80kg] and only a little bit longer and packs a massive punch compared to the 20mm and has a similar rof and mv,tho you might have to relocate the guns to either the underside or sides of the nose as the gun does have a hell of a muzzle flash.

how is the F-5F / Kowsar's muzzle structured, the cannon (30mm?) can not be moved into the belly of the fuselage because it would risk to hit it when it shoots, but it could be installed on the underside of the fuselage, on the type of Chengdu J-7M / F-7M, with part of the cannon and ammunition housed in a portion of the internal fuselage vacated by the elimination of the second pilot
here's how it might seem

 

[TheImmortal]

Thats actually a pretty neat idea using the stretched 2 seater airframe.[nice photoshop by the way]
Sadly tho` I think the fakour 90 just isnt viable,its way too big and heavy and without a decent radar or at least the ability to datalink with a longer ranged radar you`re just not going to get the advantages of the missiles very long range.

Fakour 90 has its own targeting system outside of the aircrafts radar. So F-5 Radar can guide the target initially before its own on board system takes over.