Gujarat Riots 2002

[Joe Shearer]

Dada,

We the people of India having solemnly resolved to constitute India into a Sovereign, Socialist, Secular, Democratic Republic

Cheers, Doc

P.S. I went to do susu.

I did not peek .... seriously man.

In the loo at Fort William, there is a salutary warning for the unwary:

STAND CLOSER. IT'S SHORTER THAN YOU THINK.

Strikes me that more than one of us should be remembering that and other lessons. But the real thing.

WE, THE PEOPLE OF INDIA, having solemnly resolved to constitute India into a SOVEREIGN SOCIALIST SECULAR DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC and to secure to all its citizens
JUSTICE, social, economic and political;
LIBERTY of thought, expression, belief, faith and worship;
EQUALITY of status and of opportunity; and to promote among them all
FRATERNITY assuring the dignity of the individual and the unity and integrity of the Nation;
IN OUR CONSTITUENT ASSEMBLY this 26th day of November, 1949, do HEREBY ADOPT, ENACT AND GIVE TO OURSELVES THIS CONSTITUTION.

Do I have to drive the point home, nail by bloody nail?

 

[padamchen]

You say that the will of Kashmiris does not matter, we say it does, and that precisely is why we have higher moral ground in Kashmir.

And what Joe is suggesting is ' conflict of interest' for most of Pakistanis as well.

Young Pakistani men are also dying

Young Kashmiris are also dying in what is their rightful soil.

Neither of us is willing to give up our positions vis-à-vis Kashmir,

Kashmiris are suffering.

We cannot take Kashmir by force, and you cannot give it peacefully; we have to find a way to span the distance.

A solution to Kashmir is only possible if both states try to see Kashmir Issue in the light of ongoing humanitarian crisis rather than through the prism of hysterical jingoism.

Bro, I do not deny that the cost of Kashmir is high for you as well.

But Joe and I are discussing the Indian position here.

This is NOT a discussion on Kashmir. Much as professor and you might try to pull it in that direction.

This was simply me not wanting to get pulled in and then being asked to say what I felt.

I said what I felt many posts ago.

It is the evil genius of the man I am facing that I am still here ....

Cheers, Doc

 

[Joe Shearer]

You say that the will of Kashmiris does not matter, we say it does, and that precisely is why we have higher moral ground in Kashmir.

And what Joe is suggesting is ' conflict of interest' for most of Pakistanis as well.

Young Pakistani men are also dying

Young Kashmiris are also dying in what is their rightful soil.

Neither of us is willing to give up our positions vis-à-vis Kashmir,

Kashmiris are suffering.

We cannot take Kashmir by force, and you cannot give it peacefully; we have to find a way to span the distance.

A solution to Kashmir is only possible if both states try to see Kashmir Issue in the light of ongoing humanitarian crisis rather than through the prism of hysterical jingoism.

Sometimes I wonder if you and I are speaking in a foreign language.

Bro, I do not deny that the cost of Kashmir is high for you as well.

But Joe and I are discussing the Indian position here.

This is NOT a discussion on Kashmir. Much as professor and you might try to pull it in that direction.

This was simply me not wanting to get pulled in and then being asked to say what I felt.

I said what I felt many posts ago.

It is the evil genius of the man I am facing that I am still here ....

Cheers, Doc

LOLOL

​

 

[padamchen]

In the loo at Fort William, there is a salutary warning for the unwary:

STAND CLOSER. IT'S SHORTER THAN YOU THINK.

Strikes me that more than one of us should be remembering that and other lessons. But the real thing.

WE, THE PEOPLE OF INDIA, having solemnly resolved to constitute India into a SOVEREIGN SOCIALIST SECULAR DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC and to secure to all its citizens
JUSTICE, social, economic and political;
LIBERTY of thought, expression, belief, faith and worship;
EQUALITY of status and of opportunity; and to promote among them all
FRATERNITY assuring the dignity of the individual and the unity and integrity of the Nation;
IN OUR CONSTITUENT ASSEMBLY this 26th day of November, 1949, do HEREBY ADOPT, ENACT AND GIVE TO OURSELVES THIS CONSTITUTION.

Do I have to drive the point home, nail by bloody nail?

But don't Kashmiris have a different Constitution Joe?

And if not, are you seriously telling me that India and Indians have not tried whatever we could possibly do (short of allowing them to secede) to give them all of that?

In spite, might I remind you, painfully I am certain, of the fact that they carried out a religious genocide under our noses, and their Hindu counterparts are now spread across their own country as refugees?

Where is their

JUSTICE, social, economic and political

Where was their

LIBERTY of thought, expression, belief, faith and worship

Where was their

EQUALITY of status and of opportunity

And did their Muslim brothers promote among them (and us) all

FRATERNITY assuring the dignity of the individual and the unity and integrity of the Nation ?

Cheers, Doc

 

[AfrazulMandal]

There is more.

1. The Chief Minister, whose lordly inactivity allowed the bigots loose for three days, showed not a morsel of remorse;
2. The police - the bulk of them; there were honourable exceptions - blandly said that they did what they could, and the Army didn't turn up in time;
3. Lt. Gen. Zameer Shah testifies that the Army was there on the second day, and was left high and dry by the state government failing to provide transport from the airport (the Indian Army doesn't have much of a presence in that state);
4. The courts took up the matter, and punished some of the ring-leaders, while others were exonerated due to the vast number of witnesses who mysteriously 'turned hostile';
5. The Supreme Court stepped in and appointed a Special Investigation Team, under R. K. Raghavan, whom I personally respect very much. However, his team contained Gujarat police officers including the infamous Geeta Johri, herself one of the accused. Anyone who is surprised that the team found that there was insufficient evidence to prosecute the former Chief Minister may apply for the job of answering letters addressed by children the world over to Santa Claus.
6. Police officers who testified in the media were transferred, suspended and then proceeded against on various trumped up charges;
7. Other police officers who broke ranks on other serious offences were similarly punished.

Modi did nothing criminal; he did something that amounts to betrayal of his oath of office to uphold the Constitution. But that allowed criminals full freedom to brutalise men, women and children.

We lost faith in the Indian state. It's best that only we rule ourselves.

 

[Joe Shearer]

But don't Kashmiris have a different Constitution Joe?

NO, SIR.

If the uppermost sections of our society are all as ignorant as you, we are doomed.

And if not, are you seriously telling me that India and Indians have not tried whatever we could possibly do (short of allowing them to secede) to give them all of that?

YES, SIR.

I say this with the utmost seriousness. WE HAVE VIOLATED OUR OWN CONSTITUTION AS FAR AS ADMINISTRATION IN KASHMIR IS CONCERNED.

There is NO NEED to give them the power to secede, there is ONLY the need to observe the provisions of the Constitution - the Constitution of India - and that's all. As my friend Adil Kaloo put it, it is for us to keep the provisions of our Constitution, and it is hypocritical to ask what if.....? What if the Kashmiri does not respond? What if they want more? What if they want to secede?

So I have a fine-dining restaurant, with, naturally, high-class loos. So a guest asks the way to the loo. And I say, 'Lady, what if you pee outside the commode? what if you shit outside it? Suppose you shit on the corridor outside? Suppose you come out and smear my mug with shit? Haanh, what about that, haaanh, smart lady?'

That's why we aren't doing what we are supposed to do, what we were always supposed to do. It was Rajendra Prasad who pointed out the crime being committed; he signed, anyway.

In spite, might I remind you, painfully I am certain, of the fact that they carried out a religious genocide under our noses, and their Hindu counterparts are now spread across their own country as refugees?

Right. So now we shoot the lot. Great solution, Doc.

Where is their

JUSTICE, social, economic and political

Where was their

LIBERTY of thought, expression, belief, faith and worship

Where was their

EQUALITY of status and of opportunity

And did their Muslim brothers promote among them (and us) all

FRATERNITY assuring the dignity of the individual and the unity and integrity of the Nation ?

Cheers, Doc

If you want to 'what-about', Doc, there's lots of points to be made. 'What-about' 1984? 'What-about' 2002?

Remember what this thread is about, Doc? Were the bloody bhakts thinking about these? They weren't. And BECAUSE they got away with it, they think they can do it again.

We lost faith in the Indian state. It's best that only we rule ourselves.

Thank you.

Now **** off.

 

[AfrazulMandal]

This all started after muslims crowd burnt alive a bogy full of hindus at godhra . What happened later was responsibility of narendra modi , he did not act in time .

It was proven that the Hindus burnt themselves by accident. It was a tragedy.

Thank you.

Now **** off.

M afraid we are here to stay.

 

[Joe Shearer]

It was proven that the Hindus burnt themselves by accident. It was a tragedy.


M afraid we are here to stay.

Sure, stay.

 

[GHALIB]

It was proven that the Hindus burnt themselves by accident. It was a tragedy.
.

So you say Hindus burnt their bogy ? To blame godhara muslims ? Then you must have information azmal kassai was Hindu of bidhuna .

 

[Joe Shearer]

...তবে বজরা নলে
আপন বুকের পাঁজর জ্বালিয়ে দিয়ে একলা জ্বল রে...
​

 

[AfrazulMandal]

So you say Hindus burnt their bogy ? To blame godhara muslims ? Then you must have information azmal kassai was Hindu of bidhuna .

It was an accident.

In any case, the train has left the station now. The vast majority of our youth don't have much trust in the system. Even Congress has stayed away from Muslim issues and tries to glorify Rahul as a Virat Hindu. Don't see much of a difference between hindu liberals and terrorists.

 

[GHALIB]

It was an accident.

In any case, the train has left the station now. The vast majority of our youth don't have much trust in the system. Even Congress has stayed away from Muslim issues and tries to glorify Rahul as a Virat Hindu. Don't see much of a difference between hindu liberals and terrorists.

This is politics,
to counter extreme Hindu propaganda Rahul has to resort to what he is doing. Things will change once congress comes in power , for that muslims should vote enmass to Congress. They should not waste their vote on regional parties like SP ,BSP, RJD, in UP and BIHAR.

 

[Peshwa]

marathis are famous for this and have been doing it for years.

Ha!
Care to back up your claim with some evidence?
And please do provide the detailed “trend” in marathis over the years that led you to this statement

 

[GHALIB]

We lost faith in the Indian state. It's best that only we rule ourselves.

Start your own khilafat movement here you will get a lot of support.

 

[padamchen]

It was an accident.

In any case, the train has left the station now. The vast majority of our youth don't have much trust in the system. Even Congress has stayed away from Muslim issues and tries to glorify Rahul as a Virat Hindu. Don't see much of a difference between hindu liberals and terrorists.

BS it was an accident.

We all know the sly Sanghi game you're playing here.

Cheers, Doc