Good bye folks

[Placemat]

I have seen worse on this forum and they get away with it mostly. For modi bhakats who are here to troll i understand they are here for only one reason and moderation team have to keep banning them, coming from a member who was given title and privileges have this type of mentality.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paki...-troops-exit-kabul-ex-raw-chief.594050/page-8

And check his board as well. Lots of comments are deleted in which he spewed shit out of his mouth regarding religion. And this guy still haven't got his account permanently blocked.

Well I am a newbie here and I have called out the insults heaped on Indian culture , Indians and hindus in general by pakistani and chinese members. Clesrly you can see that some statements are desigbed to troll without crossing a line. And these kind of posts reduces the gravitas of the forum. Being a mod is not easy.
I have also seen in equal measure Indians doing the same about Pak and islam.
I think it should come from within.
My suggestion... imagine you are have to face with a Muslim pakistani or chinese ( for indians) or an Indian, Hindu for pak/ chinese. Before you post would you say these things to his or her face. If you think you would then post. Else refrain.
Also take a look at some harsh words posted. Go say exactly the same thing to some people of the targeted people to their face. Until you do that refrain from posting.

 

[Signalian]

That's completely un-acceptable. I was expecting some action when @waz reassured that we are looking in to it and @Slav Defence jumped in. I thought it will be the end of that guy for good. I didn't follow it later and to my surprise i am seeing this thread today and this guy still in the ranks.

Mate i'm more in a race to stop few members from quitting PDF just like Django did rather than going after the Mod and Admin team to come out with a verdict soon. The forum will stay on, its the friends that i don't want to let go.

who me?

No, not you, relax.

 

[Ace of Spades]

Mate i'm more in a race to stop few members from quitting PDF just like Django did rather than going after the Mod and Admin team to come out with a verdict soon. The forum will stay on, its the friends that i don't want to let go.

Well in all honesty it's up to moderation team where they want to take this forum. In my opinion, the aura the moderation team try to build about inclusiveness, not taking things seriously and giving free ticket to almost everyone who have no regard for Islam, Pakistan is astoundingly shameful to the least. I have reported and reported multiple times few things. Management have to decide to make this forum in to "Bashing/mocking of Pakistan/islam forum" or keep it "Pakistan" defence forum.

 

[Nilgiri]

Django, along with others, saw Islam, Koran and Hazrat Muhammad SAW being mocked and insulted by Austerlitz and demanded action. Django didnt leave for sake of his own repo or lack of argument, he left on lack of action against a TTA who spoke against Islam, Koran and Hazrat Muhammad SAW on a Pakistani Defence Forum.


You can rather request the management to make a solid rule against any member who insults or mocks Islam, Koran and Hazrat Muhammad SAW, so more people like Django don't leave PDF.


Django is the only one who has guts to take a stand, there were many other members who saw Islam, Koran and Hazrat Muhammad SAW insulted and mocked, he left because he took the insults to Islam, Koran and Hazrat Muhammad SAW seriously.


Im trying to talk to TPS43 but religion is a sensitive matter.

It should go the other way just as much my friend. It is not on us (mortals who have faith or dont) to decide which religion(s) can get abused...but another must not be and is past a "red line"....after all that is something called faith....and you might get the answer, if you are so lucky... from the great one himself at the end of it all.

If forum wants to put one religion, one nationality or one identity as sacrosanct and any others as "fair game" should the proper "need arise"....it should be honest to us all and put it right there in the rules too, so we know and make our own decision on that.

So I say, ideally, for all us earth-dwellers (that have to co-exist in this increasingly smaller piece of rock of ours)... have red line for religion mocking, period. I got ban after ban here for nothing even approaching mocking something so fundamental to lot of people sensitivity....so I simply say why not do at least that for this issue...no matter who or which way the direction is going? Why let this much more important thing (obv since we lost more ppl just now) slip through the cracks?

Why is true banter (and I am friends with lot of ppl I engaged such with now) intervened in so vociferously in comparison?...and at cost of actual needed intervention into mean-spirited degradation of entire beliefs and faiths? Forum has to grapple with this now...not tomorrow, not next month or next year....now (given yesterday already is gone). There was an earlier time where this was the case apparently....I am not up to scratch on why this all has changed...if there are perceived "certain nationality" troll floods....simply apply the rules....or add more rules....dont make this lax-strong enforcement-exception drama...the fix is really so simple....why is it so hard to do?... I'll never get that. This forum chooses to be what it is in the end.

 

[khanz]

Thats sucks man i'm sad to see you go thanks for all the fun banter. Wishing you all the best for everything and see you around again soon sometime hopefully

 

[doorstar]

Well I am a newbie here and I have called out the insults heaped on Indian culture , Indians and hindus in general by pakistani and chinese members. Clesrly you can see that some statements are desigbed to troll without crossing a line. And these kind of posts reduces the gravitas of the forum. Being a mod is not easy.
I have also seen in equal measure Indians doing the same about Pak and islam.
I think it should come from within.
My suggestion... imagine you are have to face with a Muslim pakistani or chinese ( for indians) or an Indian, Hindu for pak/ chinese. Before you post would you say these things to his or her face. If you think you would then post. Else refrain.
Also take a look at some harsh words posted. Go say exactly the same thing to some people of the targeted people to their face. Until you do that refrain from posting.

kettle calling the pot black

The terror groups that you have been raising since your inception is the private army

 

[Signalian]

It should go the other way just as much my friend. It is not on us (mortals who have faith or dont) to decide which religion(s) can get abused...but another must not be and is past a "red line"....after all that is something called faith....and you might get the answer, if you are so lucky... from the great one himself at the end of it all.

If forum wants to put one religion, one nationality or one identity as sacrosanct and any others as "fair game" should the proper "need arise"....it should be honest to us all and put it right there in the rules too, so we know and make our own decision on that.

So I say, ideally, for all us earth-dwellers (that have to co-exist in this increasingly smaller piece of rock of ours)... have red line for religion mocking, period. I got ban after ban here for nothing even approaching mocking something so fundamental to lot of people sensitivity....so I simply say why not do at least that for this issue...no matter who or which way the direction is going? Why let this much more important thing (obv since we lost more ppl just now) slip through the cracks?

Why is true banter (and I am friends with lot of ppl I engaged such with now) intervened in so vociferously in comparison?...and at cost of actual needed intervention into mean-spirited degradation of entire beliefs and faiths? Forum has to grapple with this now...not tomorrow, not next month or next year....now (given yesterday already is gone). There was an earlier time where this was the case apparently....I am not up to scratch on why this all has changed...if there are perceived "certain nationality" troll floods....simply apply the rules....or add more rules....dont make this lax-strong enforcement-exception drama...the fix is really so simple....why is it so hard to do?... I'll never get that. This forum chooses to be what it is in the end.

Yar if you can get it (talk against any religion unacceptable) done, then by all means get it done. PDF management knows the whole story. Like i said, my concern at this time is my friends, the ones who think they should follow the same path as Django.

 

[Hell hound]

Hey can you pm me a bit later what all this is about anyway....I seemed to have missed a whole buncha stuff. Don't want to talk about it here obv.



Agree sis....if django indeed gone...hopefully your magic works over time like it did with sandy.

I see the title and see "last comment: lastofthepatriots"...so I'm like ok maybe that loveable douche-troll is leaving finally (it doesnt make sense to me deep down coz he's all about staying/longering well past expiry date heh)....click and its razpak comment about a "tharki" leaving and my heart drops (certainly no one I could know rite?)....go to first post and I get this BS shock!...gotta think on it bit more later about options and contingencies....it would be solved if django bhai just returns tho....but I been gutted before about expectations before...so I'd rather be surprised later (in better way) than dismayed more etc...so I gotta think/reflect bit later (right now I can't).

Not the new year start I expected at all...ugh!

hope he does come back bro couldn't get it out of my mind since i opened this thread.i don't know how i even typed what i did damn the all who took my brother away

 

[Hellfire]

K didn't want to talk about it really....but its the same ole deep symptom with this place showing up again (as good as I personally know many mods to be) and there are casualties in the end.

I've seen plenty of religion flamebait instigation from all sides here (and lets face it....one side gets away with starting much much more than the other .... that in itself creates a lingering feeling here...on both what I can get away if I am on side....but I wont get away with if I am on another side etc)....Such things are often just left alone after tagging/reporting what have you....allowed to fester and ferment as toxic sewage....because "examples" or whatever are being made.

Again selectively posting.

Nilgiri

I would love to show a screenshot to members here, of a conversation I had with one from the management, considered one of the most balanced around, wherein I was urged to 'post' and 'contribute positively' in the forum, and told that I should be lucky that I was not banned permanently. Why? Because when a post, made by a senior Pakistani member, bereft of facts, given emphatic rebuttal with citations and the force dispensation, continued to make personalized remarks, which, on any given day, are offensive, no light banter about it and which were reported and till this day remain unacted upon, resulted in my posting a troll post without a personal insult, which a moderator marked negatively after being cleared by a moderator. Past two days, I have been reporting multiple instances of personal attacks, and the post remains without any action whatsoever.

Yesterday an Indian member has been marked negative for the post "Very Nice", nothing to it, absolutely nothing.

So, the best alternative? Ignore the place and move on. Let the idiocy rule roost.

There is a statement in one of the Eminem songs:

With great power comes absolutely no responsibility

***Out***

 

[doorstar]

Again selectively posting.

Nilgiri

I would love to show a screenshot to members here, of a conversation I had with one from the management, considered one of the most balanced around, wherein I was urged to 'post' and 'contribute positively' in the forum, and told that I should be lucky that I was not banned permanently. Why? Because when a post, made by a senior Pakistani member, bereft of facts, given emphatic rebuttal with citations and the force dispensation, continued to make personalized remarks, which, on any given day, are offensive, no light banter about it and which were reported and till this day remain unacted upon, resulted in my posting a troll post without a personal insult, which a moderator marked negatively after being cleared by a moderator. Past two days, I have been reporting multiple instances of personal attacks, and the post remains without any action whatsoever.

Yesterday an Indian member has been marked negative for the post "Very Nice", nothing to it, absolutely nothing.

So, the best alternative? Ignore the place and move on. Let the idiocy rule roost.

you seem too be describing or echoing my time here on PDF

 

[padamchen]

K didn't want to talk about it really....but its the same ole deep symptom with this place showing up again (as good as I personally know many mods to be) and there are casualties in the end.

I've seen plenty of religion flamebait instigation from all sides here (and lets face it....one side gets away with starting much much more than the other .... that in itself creates a lingering feeling here...on both what I can get away if I am on side....but I wont get away with if I am on another side etc)....Such things are often just left alone after tagging/reporting what have you....allowed to fester and ferment as toxic sewage....because "examples" or whatever are being made.

Looking at that convo chain (And i wont ever go back to it because of what it has led to now)...seems one guy (Sarzameen) was saying it was just "light hearted banter" in another thread that austerlitz took for mean-spirited instigation on religious/cultural terms (wherever all that is now...probably deleted...not that I care).

The forum needs to follow zero tolerance approach on religion talk (past friendly philosophical sparring etc) like it says in the original rules charter (like do we have rules to look pretty or do they actually mean something?)...especially when mocking/demeaning originates/sustains...whichever side it is.

This whole approach that "more trolls have joined" thus we can take a lax approach in the "medicine" given back to them by "our own" riffraff....needs to take a serious hike! But maybe too late already given this damage done and all thats going to linger from that now anyway. How utterly sad....this is just a place we are supposed to be talking/learning/sharing/enjoying....so if you make it toxic for one set of people "just a little bit till its all gone"...well you probably don't realise what you have opened up in the end (common law precedent style) till its too late.

As much as I hate many if not most "leftie-hippy-environmentalists" these days....the words from a certain joni mitchell song ring so true now...in a different but somewhat same, sad and frustrating way:

Don't it always seem to go,

That you don't know what you've got til its gone...

They paved paradise and put up a parking lot...

@Joe Shearer @padamchen @Vibrio @Indos @nair @jbgt90 @VCheng @Desert Fox @I.R.A @waz @jhungary @Jungibaaz @Arsalan @Vergennes

I personally don't think its too late to salvage this place from whats happening .... but there has to be actual effective uni-standards at work here. We owe it to all those that have left (esp those never to return)...I hope these words are heeded!

I finally got what this was about.

Django, for the person I knew him to be, and it's not just a fellow mature tharki, but a boxer and fighter I've interacted most with him on, did disclose a pretty scary (for my liberal Parsi Indian sensibilities) bit iif his personal recently in an aside to @Retired Troll on the issue of blasphemy.

U think the mistake we personally make, and this is purely my ipiopin, is that we look at and engage with Pakistanis as if they are Our Muslims, on a level Indian playing field, in India.

Some of us who are more outspoken and more banned, learn very quickly that such is not the case.

Some of us who hold very exalted positions here, for an Indian, have never needed to learn.

I think this is one such case.

There are guys here singing love songs about an Arab member who left in a huff and started an alternative forum. Now comatose.

I was called there by some old names I like and respect.

Within a few days (2-3 at most) my faith was insulted at a very basic and personal level.

I can confidently say that for all its shortcomingss and all our oftertimes genuine grouses against some nasty mods who have it in for you, this place more than most, including the Indian ones I've tried, I have never experienced the same.

That's good enough for me. It's why I stay and keep coming back and invest my time here.

I'll miss Django and his kudos and our talks on punch technique and glove weights.

Kudos Bhai. Stay well.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Hell hound]

Django, along with others, saw Islam, Koran and Hazrat Muhammad SAW being mocked and insulted by Austerlitz and demanded action. Django didnt leave for sake of his own repo or lack of argument, he left on lack of action against a TTA who spoke against Islam, Koran and Hazrat Muhammad SAW on a Pakistani Defence Forum.


You can rather request the management to make a solid rule against any member who insults or mocks Islam, Koran and Hazrat Muhammad SAW, so more people like Django don't leave PDF.


Django is the only one who has guts to take a stand, there were many other members who saw Islam, Koran and Hazrat Muhammad SAW insulted and mocked, he left because he took the insults to Islam, Koran and Hazrat Muhammad SAW seriously.


Im trying to talk to TPS43 but religion is a sensitive matter.

i know what happened MODS were there so i left it to them but never knew i would lose my brother over it.

 

[Moonlight]

Agree sis....if django indeed gone...hopefully your magic works over time like it did with sandy.

I see the title and see "last comment: lastofthepatriots"...so I'm like ok maybe that loveable douche-troll is leaving finally (it doesnt make sense to me deep down coz he's all about staying/longering well past expiry date heh)....click and its razpak comment about a "tharki" leaving and my heart drops (certainly no one I could know rite?)....go to first post and I get this BS shock!...gotta think on it bit more later about options and contingencies....it would be solved if django bhai just returns tho....but I been gutted before about expectations before...so I'd rather be surprised later (in better way) than dismayed more etc...so I gotta think/reflect bit later (right now I can't).

Not the new year start I expected at all...ugh!

I fully concur.....and I hope dj babu doesn’t leave and I used to think I’m the only fan of our most decent and amazing friend. But Django Bhai got a lot of fans. Lol
And if he leaves, I’m gonna let him enjoy some time off of pdf. Then I am gonna use my “Magic” I used to bring our Sandy back.
I am so hurt though....
And I swearrrrr it isn’t a good beginning to New Year.

Ps: would you mind giving me a brief history of the reason he decided to leave?
Thank you.

 

[Hellfire]

you seem too be describing or echoing my time here on PDF

My earlier avtaar till yesterday was "Hellfire".

Had tagged you in one of the most stupid comments by a Pakistani, echoing your observation made a few days back, that indeed the Pakistani members here seem to be posting deliberately to give Pakistan a bad name. I agree.

 

[Moonlight]

@WebMaster @Horus @Slav Defence @waz @Dubious

Hey all, can you guys please handle this problem and don’t let PDF lose such a good members like @django. You guys can read all the comments, not even a single member is happy with his decision. He has such a good reputation here. One of the most respected member & I am sure you all would also share the same thoughts like the rest of the people here.
I also came across other good members thinking to leave PDF. This isn’t gonna help the forum at all.
To be honest, if you approach this matter with thinking like “oh who cares if XYZ member leaves”...
It does make a difference when good members leave. It does.
Their posts, knowledge, and presence attracts the audience to join the forum.

I am sure, all of you would definitely look into this matter and make @django stay. Because he doesn’t need PDF, there are multiple forums he can join. BUT PDF DOES NEED HIM.


Regards!!!!