First Pakistani Army Viper Attack Helicopter Spotted

[araz]

My question
Has Russia or French did any weapon ban on Pakistan that effected operational capacity of PAF or pak army despite us going to war with Russia in 1990

It's so idiotic that you compare these ...there is no comparison
The whole back bone if PAF Were mirages 5/3 at fraction of cost when f16s were dysfunctional

But logic doesn't see everyone

Rd93 were brought via China but Russia has no problem selling them directly ...nor they have problem with selling stuff to Turkey who shot down their fighter jet

Bhai Sahib.
You are arguing for the sake of arguing.@The Dark Knight has already answered your question many times in his posts. Sanctions do not have to be signed declarations of hatred written in blood and nailed to your door with a dagger. The French have been showing you the finger since the cancellation of the signed Reprocessing plant deal, to hiking up the price of the M2Ks in the late 80s early 90s,blocked the Augusta delivery and the Rose upgraded M3s. They have again shown you the finger by quoting 60 million dollars per plane for refurbished M2K5s and instead projected the Rafale which we could not acford, and reneging on their deal to provide avionics and armaments for the JFT in 2004. Russia only opened the doors to you in 2010 onwards.
One can Harp on about the RD93 but that was a sale to China not Pak and one of the reasons for J10s not being procured was the complexity of the engines procurementfrom the Red bear So you have enough evidence here to point you to the uncertainties of dealing with the French and the Russians. If you are interested read an interview by A2KGB agents about their role in fomenting unrest in Baluchistan and how their armaments policy affects the capabilities of the Arabs to fight the Israelis. Enough said.
Regards
A

You post is self contradicting

Your understanding of world politics is infantile. Please do not disgrace yourself by making idiotic remarks against senior posters. This behaviour needs to be stopped. Niaz saheb is a very experienced and mature poster. He deserves respect . My final post to you on the matter.
A

 

[ziaulislam]

Bhai Sahib.
You are arguing for the sake of arguing.@The Dark Knight has already answered your question many times in his posts. Sanctions do not have to be signed declarations of hatred written in blood and nailed to your door with a dagger. The French have been showing you the finger since the cancellation of the signed Reprocessing plant deal, to hiking up the price of the M2Ks in the late 80s early 90s,blocked the Augusta delivery and the Rose upgraded M3s. They have again shown you the finger by quoting 60 million dollars per plane for refurbished M2K5s and instead projected the Rafale which we could not acford, and reneging on their deal to provide avionics and armaments for the JFT in 2004. Russia only opened the doors to you in 2010 onwards.
One can Harp on about the RD93 but that was a sale to China not Pak and one of the reasons for J10s not being procured was the complexity of the engines procurementfrom the Red bear So you have enough evidence here to point you to the uncertainties of dealing with the French and the Russians. If you are interested read an interview by A2KGB agents about their role in fomenting unrest in Baluchistan and how their armaments policy affects the capabilities of the Arabs to fight the Israelis. Enough said.
Regards
A


Your understanding of world politics is infantile. Please do not disgrace yourself by making idiotic remarks against senior posters. This behaviour needs to be stopped. Niaz saheb is a very experienced and mature poster. He deserves respect . My final post to you on the matter.
A

well if PAF is fine with 32 f-16s in sheds with no BVRs and another 4 billion dollars stuck in 1990s saga with similar problems with cobras than whom am i to argue

after all i am not a military expert

i am certain that like every other institution of Pakistan we have honest people at the top

no questions asked

 

[shootingstar]

The color of AH-1Z is light grey. It looks like the same color as US Marines have for their helicopter.

The color of AH-1F, that Pakistan Army Aviation currently flies is Olive Green. Its the same color that US Army helicopters have.

The tweet says AH-1Z has same color has current AH-1F and this is not correct.

These helicopters are very sanction prone. Better not deal with US anymore.

I thought Pakistan has already paid for these choppers and has started inducting them? Is that not true?

 

[niaz]

well if PAF is fine with 32 f-16s in sheds with no BVRs and another 4 billion dollars stuck in 1990s saga with similar problems with cobras than whom am i to argue

after all i am not a military expert

i am certain that like every other institution of Pakistan we have honest people at the top

no questions asked

Hon sir,

You have every right to like or dislike any country that you take a fancy too. It does not bother me the least if you curse United States and shout ‘Death to America’ to your heart's content. What bothers me is when some one quotes totally inaccurate figures as justification of the anti-US stance.

I am certain that I am far older than you and therefore have experienced ups & downs of Pakistan relationship over the years.

Firstly, permit to question how did you arrive at the figure of $4-billion? In actual fact Pakistan had paid Lockheed Corporation a total of $658-million for the 28 F-16’s. After the Preseler Amendment following Pakistan’s nuclear tests, delivery of these planes was blocked. In 1998 President Clinton resolved the issue and refunded Pakistan $464-million mostly in cash after deduction storage charges at $50K per month for a number of years.
If you care to do some research you would find that the figures quoted by me are largely correct.

Now let us come to the US military & economic aid. Pakistan received total of $67-billion (in 2009 dollar value) between 1951 & 2011 under various programs. There has been plenty more following Pakistan /US alliance in the WOT since then.

https://www.cgdev.org/page/aid-pakistan-numbers

I would like to make it clear that it does not mean that we should be bending over backwards to the US. Nothing in this world is free; the aid was a ‘quid pro quo’ for Pakistan supporting the US during cold war which included Pakistan providing Air Bases to the US. India is now far more important for the US national interests and they have dropped Pakistan. Being a Pakistani I don’t like this 'volte-face', but I have to grudgingly accept it as being ‘Realpolitik’ in action.

My dislike of certain US policies is because of the unstinting support of Israel by the successive US presidents; something that no one with a clear conscience would agree.

My disappointment with some of my compatriots stems from the fact the intelligent & educated Pakistanis pull exaggerated figures out of the air to justify their anti-US feeling.

 

[ziaulislam]

i am not anti american, its my second home, where did that thought came from.. lol
ok i stand corrected regarding the amount i didnt look it up before quoting it

pak military arguing that operating older cobras have similar parts will make sense for this deal but it would be blunder if you dont get them at all which some will argue might happen

Pakistan should have remained non allied and should not have asked for any AID
Pakistan own behavior is the reason for current us-pak relation deterioration, pak needs to bring reforms in FATA(politician refusing to do so despite push from military), stop getting aid and improve it relation ship with Afghanistan.

my anger is not directed to wards US, they have done what is right for their country, its directed towards Pakistan military and Pakistani govt

 

[batmannow]

For one to think that we are having a beauty contest has to be really dumb and that sure isn't me , it takes one to appreciate the beauty of a very capable fighting machine like these Zulu's which I have seen first hand in front of my eyes. The PA knows what its doing there wont be any issues with any spares of this bird being grounded don't be silly there isn't a guarantee on any thing in life but life must go on and we face life as it comes each and everyday BRO !!

I just wish that you wouldn't have written that post ?
for your kind eyes only here is what u ill get !

Trump's first 2018 tweet: Pakistan has 'given us nothing but lies & deceit'
By Daniella Diaz, CNN
Updated 0404 GMT (1204 HKT) January 2, 2018
it looks really wired , & insane that how long our military establishment I'll keep livin in thier foolish dreams that our old uncle SAM , is happy with us , & we are living in 80s???
bro if we need to live in this world with self pride , then we need to come outa these foolish dreams , that our real dam enemies I'll keep supporting us for their own suspected destruction ?
which they preempted days & nights years & years ?
statioNing of dam marines I'm afghanistan to secure our nucks is that out of our site ???
sorry , to be bit harsh but any dam USA weaponry is not good to use for our protection of our mother land that's the most loud & clear messege is just been re-delivered to us once again , if we cant see that then not we are a blind nation but our future is dark , dam very dark !
it's time to say good byes , to all of beauty gadgets from uncle sam , who can't win a 16 years of war in Afghanistan , having these gadgets & even having more modern gadgets ?
fact remains un hidden , that u can't trust your clear & present enemies .
have nice day bro , good luck for the new year in motion 2018, always happy to see you Flynn high

i am not anti american, its my second home, where did that thought came from.. lol
ok i stand corrected regarding the amount i didnt look it up before quoting it

pak military arguing that operating older cobras have similar parts will make sense for this deal but it would be blunder if you dont get them at all which some will argue might happen

Pakistan should have remained non allied and should not have asked for any AID
Pakistan own behavior is the reason for current us-pak relation deterioration, pak needs to bring reforms in FATA(politician refusing to do so despite push from military), stop getting aid and improve it relation ship with Afghanistan.

my anger is not directed to wards US, they have done what is right for their country, its directed towards Pakistan military and Pakistani govt

let's face it bro !
who's mistake was that going to IRAQ for WOMD ?
lies ?lol
or afghanistan , leme know when I'll declare itself victorious there ?
16 dead years , where USA stands in Afghanistan ??
I'm mean no where ?
what ever military hardware we got surly thats been re-enginered in some good chinese air complexes , you I'll soon I'll see , similar but more capable bird flying in pak-Chinese colours .
if usa can watch it's interstes then we also do in our own way

 

[DJ_Viper]

I just wish that you wouldn't have written that post ?
for your kind eyes only here is what u ill get !

Trump's first 2018 tweet: Pakistan has 'given us nothing but lies & deceit'
let's face it bro !
who's mistake was that going to IRAQ for WOMD ?
lies ?lol
or afghanistan , leme know when I'll declare itself victorious there ?
16 dead years , where USA stands in Afghanistan ??
I'm mean no where ?
what ever military hardware we got surly thats been re-enginered in some good chinese air complexes , you I'll soon I'll see , similar but more capable bird flying in pak-Chinese colours .
if usa can watch it's interstes then we also do in our own way

To be honest with you guys, none of the comments matter. The US President is the commander-in-chief of our military and affairs. I hope your GHQ is reading his body language and tweets, which is really his way of telling others what's on his mind and what he intends on doing. I believe there may be hardship coming towards Pakistan, no matter how much I personally like Pakistanis. My understanding is that there is very, very serious back-end efforts going on from India about Pakistan. So that obviously doesn't help.

Are there any alternative plans in case the Vipers are also stopped? Your post is right in one regard, its not the first time. So you should build everything internally so you aren't depending on anyone. That's everyone's right to do.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Trump Can tweet all he wants , it does not matter squat

Most people of word don't recognize him as legitimate Leader of US , Hilary was the popular vote , this con man is just there for few years

We got this

 

[batmannow]

To be honest with you guys, none of the comments matter. The US President is the commander-in-chief of our military and affairs. I hope your GHQ is reading his body language and tweets, which is really his way of telling others what's on his mind and what he intends on doing. I believe there may be hardship coming towards Pakistan, no matter how much I personally like Pakistanis. My understanding is that there is very, very serious back-end efforts going on from India about Pakistan. So that obviously doesn't help.

Are there any alternative plans in case the Vipers are also stopped? Your post is right in one regard, its not the first time. So you should build everything internally so you aren't depending on anyone. That's everyone's right to do.

& you thought we were livin in heavens with the dam money been giving to us , by a nonsensical world power which have only single solution to every problem in this world ?
WAR ?
INVADE ?
DESTROY ?
country after country ?
sorry ,bro
we can't digest any more this stupid situation , let's see how long your troops can stand by thier own , without a nail been sent in any dam logestical support to your forces in Afghanistan ?
I think ,russian gunships are far more better range , & weapons load surly are more capable then these show type hellos ?

 

[TOPGUN]

I just wish that you wouldn't have written that post ?
for your kind eyes only here is what u ill get !

Trump's first 2018 tweet: Pakistan has 'given us nothing but lies & deceit'
By Daniella Diaz, CNN
Updated 0404 GMT (1204 HKT) January 2, 2018
it looks really wired , & insane that how long our military establishment I'll keep livin in thier foolish dreams that our old uncle SAM , is happy with us , & we are living in 80s???
bro if we need to live in this world with self pride , then we need to come outa these foolish dreams , that our real dam enemies I'll keep supporting us for their own suspected destruction ?
which they preempted days & nights years & years ?
statioNing of dam marines I'm afghanistan to secure our nucks is that out of our site ???
sorry , to be bit harsh but any dam USA weaponry is not good to use for our protection of our mother land that's the most loud & clear messege is just been re-delivered to us once again , if we cant see that then not we are a blind nation but our future is dark , dam very dark !
it's time to say good byes , to all of beauty gadgets from uncle sam , who can't win a 16 years of war in Afghanistan , having these gadgets & even having more modern gadgets ?
fact remains un hidden , that u can't trust your clear & present enemies .
have nice day bro , good luck for the new year in motion 2018, always happy to see you Flynn high

For your dear eyes my friend I live in the US I know this way before you did. This is rocky a relationship between the two nations its all drama one day it normal one day it over so what ?? I don't regret any thing that I wrote or said simply there is nothing we can do if there is a break in relations nor in the weapons we buy from them. These new birds are in small numbers anyways honestly I don't see a major issue in the near future for getting spares and parts from 3rd party sources. Good luck to you as well in the New Year wish you and everyone all the best GOD knows we all need it and inshallah I will try to keep flying high and you can be my wing man any time bro

 

[Imran Khan]

To be honest with you guys, none of the comments matter. The US President is the commander-in-chief of our military and affairs. I hope your GHQ is reading his body language and tweets, which is really his way of telling others what's on his mind and what he intends on doing. I believe there may be hardship coming towards Pakistan, no matter how much I personally like Pakistanis. My understanding is that there is very, very serious back-end efforts going on from India about Pakistan. So that obviously doesn't help.

Are there any alternative plans in case the Vipers are also stopped? Your post is right in one regard, its not the first time. So you should build everything internally so you aren't depending on anyone. That's everyone's right to do.

sir trump can keep his choppers thanks we no need them

 

[princefaisal]

There will be sanctions for the spares of AH-1Z helicopters in future due to current behavior of US. So better to get TOT of T129 and request Turkey to provide its own manufactured engines for the helicopters.

 

[batmannow]

For your dear eyes my friend I live in the US I know this way before you did. This is rocky a relationship between the two nations its all drama one day it normal one day it over so what ?? I don't regret any thing that I wrote or said simply there is nothing we can do if there is a break in relations nor in the weapons we buy from them. These new birds are in small numbers anyways honestly I don't see a major issue in the near future for getting spares and parts from 3rd party sources. Good luck to you as well in the New Year wish you and everyone all the best GOD knows we all need it and inshallah I will try to keep flying high and you can be my wing man any time bro

Thanks for new year wishes bro , was in FL just 2 weeks before , sure im not those kinda hard core stupids , who think america is the reason of doom ?lol
But reality lies ahead , in the sunshine in.open , america wants our nucks & cepec , are we ready to give to them ? No I dont think so , so these brids arent means anything to our national pride & freedom !

 

[DJ_Viper]

, america wants our nucks & cepec , are we ready to give to them ? No I dont think so , so these brids arent means anything to our national pride & freeamdom !

Are you sure this is the case? You don't think something happened....another misadventure by your military that had to screw up Trump's new years evening and thus the tweet? I saw a few clips on the BBC news. Your politicians and ex-military guys are saying that 'America is trying to blame Pakistan for its defeat"? This is the stupidest thing ever. Can you explain to these people that these wars don't mean a win or defeat to us and these are reasons for our presence?

Rest assured, we don't want your freedom, nukes or whatever else. We do want you guys to not create further issues in Afghanistan and India. Afghans do not like Pakistan. I have come to know many. They love Indians and vis-a-vs. Ever thought why is it that Bengalis, Indians, Iranians to a huge degree (not all), Afghans, the US, Europeans all dislike Pakistan and have done so even before the nukes? This is a real question I hope you guys can internally ask and learn about if your military gives you the power to ask questions.

Why is it? Because take a look at the Pakistani population that needs growth. Than, take a look at the military of Pakistan, her shenanigans, styles, interference in so many countries. Is that really needed? Ongoing misadventures. Trying to compare ISI with the CIA, trying to compare Pakistan as the world's only Islamic super power? I am writing this post with care for Pakistan. I'd hope that some in Pakistan would understand that your energies have been focused on creating your own military regime. When there was no need to. You guys take out civilians and then are left with the only option you've ever come to known, that's a military option. Resulting in pissing other nations, groups of people off, resulting in bad reputation for your own country. When would this craziness stop?? But no one wants to focus on the real thing, instead, Pakistanis believe that "America is blaming them for Afghan war"!! WOW! India, I can understand. But Iran, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Europe, so many countries that otherwise could seriously increase your economic output, but you'd rather live under the delusion that these countries are in a competition with Pakistan? Unbelievable!

 

[Ace of Spades]

Are you sure this is the case? You don't think something happened....another misadventure by your military that had to screw up Trump's new years evening and thus the tweet? I saw a few clips on the BBC news. Your politicians and ex-military guys are saying that 'America is trying to blame Pakistan for its defeat"? This is the stupidest thing ever. Can you explain to these people that these wars don't mean a win or defeat to us and these are reasons for our presence?

Oh, the geopolitical analysis of yours..... pfffff

Lemme tell you what this pain is all about...

Your joker president/ US establishment is sweating because US wants to recover trillions of dollars they spent on war in Afghanistan from their mineral deposits. The funny thing i find about you americans is that you underplay literally everyone; now i don't blame you, arrogance comes when you reach the highs of being super power. But you guys gotta realize that it's not 90s anymore; America is getting irrelevant. And it's happening faster than you think. Pakistan's role in Afghanistan is not about safe havens but it's directly conflicting with US ambitions of controlling and leaching afghanistan dry; of course there are other factors e.g. Chinese dominance and role as next super power, which is a US nightmare; about to come true and with that goes the US strategic interests in Asia in particular and that will be end of US "leadership" role. And there Pakistan is another nightmare for US, since US planned on making India their bed buddy to counter China; but it ain't happening, Pakistan giving route to china to expand their trade and connectivity. Of course it's gonna give cramps and heartache to US.

All this out cry is about that; and in my opinion Pakistan's policy makers are well aware of US intentions and they are countering it very effectively.

Rest assured, we don't want your freedom, nukes or whatever else. We do want you guys to not create further issues in Afghanistan and India. Afghans do not like Pakistan. I have come to know many. They love Indians and vis-a-vs. Ever thought why is it that Bengalis, Indians, Iranians to a huge degree (not all), Afghans, the US, Europeans all dislike Pakistan and have done so even before the nukes? This is a real question I hope you guys can internally ask and learn about if your military gives you the power to ask questions.

Why is it? Because take a look at the Pakistani population that needs growth. Than, take a look at the military of Pakistan, her shenanigans, styles, interference in so many countries. Is that really needed? Ongoing misadventures. Trying to compare ISI with the CIA, trying to compare Pakistan as the world's only Islamic super power? I am writing this post with care for Pakistan. I'd hope that some in Pakistan would understand that your energies have been focused on creating your own military regime. When there was no need to. You guys take out civilians and then are left with the only option you've ever come to known, that's a military option. Resulting in pissing other nations, groups of people off, resulting in bad reputation for your own country. When would this craziness stop?? But no one wants to focus on the real thing, instead, Pakistanis believe that "America is blaming them for Afghan war"!! WOW! India, I can understand. But Iran, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Europe, so many countries that otherwise could seriously increase your economic output, but you'd rather live under the delusion that these countries are in a competition with Pakistan? Unbelievable!

So many curiosities but very little knowledge of history and region. Not gonna educate you but can give you some reference points to read about. Read history of subcontinent, Afghanistan's role before Britishers in creating destabilization in region, durand line, Creation of Bangladesh from Pakistan, Kashmir conflict, Cold war, Saudi- Iranian animosity, US roles in creating conflict in different regions of world vietnam, cube, Venezuela, Iraq, syria, iran, afghanistan, Libya etc. Go through this and hit me up after you are a bit literate and i will give you some more homework. I am sure if you generally read a bit instead of learning history from youtube and learning geopolitics from Fox you will not be giving your 3rd class hollywood style analysis here.