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American kids are 'political pawns' in gun control battle, CEOs say

I never saw any religious book that even as much as bit a human while bullets do result in death...again not the same...

Anyway, carry on killing your next generation...everyone has tried to knock some sense in y'all
First...Do not even try to pretend that you give a hoot about gun related deaths in the US. We all know that the gun issue is just another convenient point to criticize US. If not guns, it would have been fast food, or something else.

Second...A weapon, be it a sword or a gun, is more honest than any 'holy' book. More accurately, it make the wielder an honest person. If he holds a sword, whether he is of good or evil nature, at least you know what finally can do. On the other hand, if he holds a 'holy' book, he is essentially in disguise, ambiguous in intent, and unknown in action. If he cannot do you harm in the name of 'all that is holy', he will get someone to do it for him. A weapon can kill you in an instant, but a 'holy' book can make your life miserable enough that you would rather be dead, assuming you are allowed the mean to take your own life.

I will take the gun, thank you.
 
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First...Do not even try to pretend that you give a hoot about gun related deaths in the US. We all know that the gun issue is just another convenient point to criticize US. If not guns, it would have been fast food, or something else.
So you think you are above criticism? Well done!

Second...A weapon, be it a sword or a gun, is more honest than any 'holy' book.
And here you landed into crap! Not even comparable but lets go with your flow.

More accurately, it make the wielder an honest person.
Yup gangs, church shooters, school shooters are all honest people!

If he holds a sword, whether he is of good or evil nature, at least you know what finally can do.
AND yet you feel the need to defend those misusing it?

On the other hand, if he holds a 'holy' book, he is essentially in disguise, ambiguous in intent, and unknown in action.
At least the book itself isnt killing people! A book will never have blood on it. It can be misused but the people misusing are called out and some restrict only people with knowledge to interpret it not the everyday man. Then again the everyday man also reads it...But some hate it for no reason for you against the book and me against the gun (as per your comparison)

I will take the gun, thank you.
And this attitude is killing your youth, it will only take a few generations....because the new generation isnt in it as the old one was!

You refuse to sacrifice for the betterment of your own society and efficiently blame others with a really narrowed mindset that just cant be categorized as patriot but rather just selfish!
 
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So you think you are above criticism? Well done!
Not at all. We take criticisms only from those who are genuine about their feelings for US. I do not see you in that group.

Yup gangs, church shooters, school shooters are all honest people!
Yup. They are honest about what they are and what they wanted to do.

AND yet you feel the need to defend those misusing it?
Defend? Nonsense. I was only stating the obvious -- that if you hold a weapon, we at least have a good idea of what you COULD do.

At least the book itself isnt killing people! A book will never have blood on it. It can be misused...
So can a gun.

...but the people misusing are called out...
We call out those who misuse guns. We either kill them or imprison them.

...and some restrict only people with knowledge to interpret it not the everyday man.
Yeah...That is a good laugh.

Looky here, buddy, any Joe Schmoe can call himself 'padre' or 'reverend' or 'imam' with only a cursory reading of the appropriate 'holy' book. The reality is that there are more restrictions on getting guns than there are getting religious titles.

And this attitude is killing your youth, it will only take a few generations....because the new generation isnt in it as the old one was!

You refuse to sacrifice for the betterment of your own society and efficiently blame others with a really narrowed mindset that just cant be categorized as patriot but rather just selfish!
The gun have been with US for over 200 yrs. In that time, the US rose to be the world's most powerful and sought after country. We do not need anyone to 'knock some sense' into US about guns. Fact is, we know more about guns than anyone else. :enjoy:
 
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by Joe Williams
| December 04, 2018 11:35 AM

America's partisan standoff over gun regulation has made pawns of the nation's youth, the heads of two companies that supported tighter firearm restrictions complained Tuesday.

"Let's just make these changes and make them now," Mark Bertolini, the former CEO of insurer Aetna before its merger with CVS Health that closed last week, said at a Washington, D.C., conference hosted by the Wall Street Journal. "We should never feel like our children are political chips in a battle over legislation."

Ed Stack, the CEO of Dick's Sporting Goods, concurred. "Our kids are a political pawn," he said during a panel discussion with Aetna's Bertolini.

Both companies have supported a crackdown on firearms in the wake of mass shootings including
one at a Florida high school on Valentine's Day that left 17 people dead. Dick's raised the minimum age to purchase a firearm to 21 afterward, a move the company recently said led to lower sales. Dick's also started to push for stricter laws in Washington, with little effect so far.

"Are you listened to? Yes. Is anything going to happen? No," Stack told attendees. "Both sides talk to their bases when something like this happens, as opposed to coming together."

Aetna donated $200,000 to a firearm reform rally and banned political donations to individuals with a favorable rating from the National Rifle Association after two of its employees were killed during a shooting in a gay nightclub in Orlando in 2016.

Bertolini said he called Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky after the Pulse shooting to urge him to advance firearm legislation.

"It hasn't worked," he said. "We're still in this place."

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...olitical-pawns-in-gun-control-battle-ceos-say

i don't see them as pawns.
i see them as influential in this debate.

but actual change is probably slow to go into effect, because the right to own guns is so entrenched in American culture.

it took decades or even centuries for women to get voting rights, unfortunately.
this change might take just as much time.

but i do believe this change (gun-control) is going to happen, very gradually probably, coz the arguments of the gun-lobby are being blown out of the water nearly every day now.
 
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Not at all. We take criticisms only from those who are genuine about their feelings for US. I do not see you in that group.
You think anyone is genuine? Let alone criticism coming from USA is half baked lies rather than genuine concerns! Hack even for their own army personnel in Afghanistan and Iraq it barely is "genuine" so, just a word of advice stop looking for something you guys cant master :)

Having said that, MANY people have some form of relative in USA so unfortunately, involuntarily half is genuine for their safety!

Yup. They are honest about what they are and what they wanted to do.
Wow! That kind of shows that this isnt a discussion....you see, you cant discuss with one with a rigid mindset ..
I guess you also claim molesters and rapists are honest?

Defend? Nonsense. I was only stating the obvious -- that if you hold a weapon, we at least have a good idea of what you COULD do.
What you could do or what you choose to do?

Not every gun owner has shot their gun and not every non gun owner has been innocent so saying you can predict something so random is really not very intellectually stimulating!

So can a gun.
Yet, gun laws refuse to be reformed but churches and Christianity have/ has been :tsk:

A gun alone isnt the problem nor are those who are screaming for reforms are "automatically" attacking any rights...REFORM is very different from REMOVAL!

We call out those who misuse guns. We either kill them or imprison them.
Yea AFTER they have done the damage...Apparently, better safe than sorry doesnt seem to exist :unsure:

Looky here, buddy, any Joe Schmoe can call himself 'padre' or 'reverend' or 'imam' with only a cursory reading of the appropriate 'holy' book. The reality is that there are more restrictions on getting guns than there are getting religious titles.
What is a title? People can also get a gun licence faster than blowing your own nose in many states...In some states as some indians here pointed out you dont even need a licence ......so attacking one and defending the other is really biased!

The gun have been with US for over 200 yrs. In that time, the US rose to be the world's most powerful and sought after country. We do not need anyone to 'knock some sense' into US about guns. Fact is, we know more about guns than anyone else. :enjoy:
yea through terror and violence and yet you claim to fight terrorism....

What goes around comes home to roost too :agree:
 
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And this attitude is killing your youth, it will only take a few generations....because the new generation isnt in it as the old one was!

You refuse to sacrifice for the betterment of your own society and efficiently blame others with a really narrowed mindset that just cant be categorized as patriot but rather just selfish!

How does giving up guns led to betterment of society ?? Ownership of guns by law abiding citizens shouldn't stop you unless you are a criminal
 
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How does giving up guns led to betterment of society ?? Ownership of guns by law abiding citizens shouldn't stop you unless you are a criminal
The problem is not the law abiding citizens but as shown on this very thread the laxed gun laws of some state in issuing gun license to every tom dick and harry!
 
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The problem is not the law abiding citizens but as shown on this very thread the laxed gun laws of some state in issuing gun license to every tom dick and harry!

In theory and in practice guns are available only to law abiding citizens. there are instant background checks. they work.
the real issue is when a law abiding citizen purchases guns and then decides to go ballistic
 
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Not every gun owner has shot their gun...
Right here pretty much destroyed your criticisms of US regarding guns.

The vast majority of gun owners in the US shoot at the range, even in the cities, or out in the hills on public lands.

Yet, gun laws refuse to be reformed but churches and Christianity have/ has been
That is nonsense -- about guns laws 'refuse to be reformed'.

There are plenty of gun laws in the US. For starter, I cannot buy an automatic weapon unless am willing to submit to unannounced inspections by the Fed and pay large fees. There are many places I cannot bring my gun. Convicted felons cannot buy/own guns.

And so on...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_the_United_States

A gun alone isnt the problem nor are those who are screaming for reforms are "automatically" attacking any rights...REFORM is very different from REMOVAL!
And whenever details are asked/exposed those reforms, those 'reforms' hints at confiscation, increased restrictions, and more limits. The word 'reform' is code.

Yea AFTER they have done the damage...Apparently, better safe than sorry doesnt seem to exist
How far do you want to go? How about cars as so often they are used in crimes? Better safe than sorry, eh?

yea through terror and violence and yet you claim to fight terrorism....
And we helped saved the world thrice.

Looky here...Your criticisms about US gun culture are stale. Your criticisms are more to satisfy your need to feel morally superior to US, not because you genuinely care about US or even understand US.
 
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Right here pretty much destroyed your criticisms of US regarding guns.

The vast majority of gun owners in the US shoot at the range, even in the cities, or out in the hills on public lands.
Nobody is talking about the vast majority just like vast majority of car drivers drive following the rules but the small % that dont...are "regulated" either via fine or if it has resulted in death like via accident....they are jailed but to get a license isnt made easy nor as some states where guns dont need license....to drive a car still does so!
That is nonsense -- about guns laws 'refuse to be reformed'.

There are plenty of gun laws in the US. For starter, I cannot buy an automatic weapon unless am willing to submit to unannounced inspections by the Fed and pay large fees. There are many places I cannot bring my gun. Convicted felons cannot buy/own guns.

And so on...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_the_United_States
Wiki isnt a great source but nonetheless, like I said few posts earlier...No one is talking about snatching your or the guns of responsible citizens, one is only asking that guns dont fall in the hands of lunatics!

And whenever details are asked/exposed those reforms, those 'reforms' hints at confiscation, increased restrictions, and more limits. The word 'reform' is code.
And many a times it is as simple as increasing the age and doing a good background check....Those states that allow you to buy a gun without license : Among U.S. states, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Idaho (residents only), Kansas,Maine, Mississippi, Missouri, New Hampshire, North Dakota (residents only; concealed carry only), Vermont, West Virginia and Wyoming (residents only) are fully unrestricted, and allow those who are not prohibited from owning a firearm....THIS needs to be reformed!

How far do you want to go? How about cars as so often they are used in crimes? Better safe than sorry, eh?
Yea but which AMERICAN state allow you to drive without a license?
Here is vehicle regulation:
Vehicle regulations are requirements that automobiles must satisfy in order to be approved for sale or use in a particular country or region. They are usually mandated by legislation, and administered by a government body. The regulations concern aspects such as lighting, controls, crashworthiness, environment protection and theft protection.


And we helped saved the world thrice.
You mean terrorized the world? You helped only Europe...that too by dropping atomic bombs on Japan! Considered the most henious crime...In Vietnam also you showed a barbaric side of yourselves! Korean war, Gulf war....Kind of sounds like a war monger-er coz you need market for your guns!

Your criticisms are more to satisfy your need to feel morally superior to US, not because you genuinely care about US or even understand US.
MOST of the world is annoyed by school shootings in America as well as the gun culture.

MOST of the people like me are annoyed with your gun exports, ESP with you guns getting in the hands of rebels of the countries you "so called leave" only to get a pass to come back! So, no one really cares about America but your sickening culture is what it is...SICK!

And the last part always comes in...

Would you listen to those who ACTUALLY care about America? NO

Coz you dont even listen to the survivals...the kids who are screaming their throats out with ENOUGH!

THEY care about America but so far it has fallen to deaf ears so why the hell do you even care who cares about you or not? Coz care falls on deaf ears but fear that you throw around the globe, WILL COME BACK TO BITE!

THEN hopefully you will listen coz that seems the only language you people understand!

If you cant discuss a topic, dont cry about "care"...coz we all know you arent in Afghanistan and Iraq coz you "care" about the locals...Nor were you in Korea or Vietnam due to care...Nor do you drop bombs in Yemen and Pakistan due to care! So dont come here crying about "care"
 
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Nobody is talking about the vast majority just like vast majority of car drivers drive following the rules but the small % that dont...are "regulated" either via fine or if it has resulted in death like via accident....they are jailed but to get a license isnt made easy nor as some states where guns dont need license....to drive a car still does so!
A car and a gun. Each is a tool. One tool is licensed and one is not. Each have been used to commit crimes. And yet the gun is the greater evil even though the car -- as a tool of crime -- commit greater amount of crimes.

Most gun owners do not carry guns on their persons, I am a gun owner and in all my adult yrs of owning guns, I have concealed carry my pistol exactly four times, about once a DECADE and in each situation there was a higher risk of meeting danger. However, all car owners %99 of the time uses their cars, so inevitably, there would be more car deaths than gun deaths.

But the gun is the greater evil.

I understand that each tool have its original purpose. The car is for transportation. The gun is to kill. But if the justification to control guns is the quantity of deaths, then the original purpose of a tool is irrelevant because the car, despite its original intent, is the greater cause of many more deaths. It does not matter if the car death is from accidents or from misuse, such as deliberately running someone over or use for suicide (carbon monoxide poisoning). The end is still the same -- death.

If you want to control or ban guns because of its design intent -- to kill -- then be honest about it. But do not use quantity of deaths because...

https://fit.thequint.com/health-news/bathtub-death-do-occur-what-you-need-to-know
...Japan's health ministry had launched an investigation in 2012 after it was estimated that 14,000 people died every year in the tub. The number was three times as many as those who died in car accidents.
Fourteen thousands Japanese died in their baths in 2012, whereas the US had 346 mass shootings in 2018.

So from which basis do you want to control guns, intent (to kill) or consequence (death)?

If you want to control or even ban guns based upon design intent -- to kill -- be honest about it, but if you want to control/ban guns based upon quantity of deaths, then you better start with the car and the baths, then come for my guns.

Wiki isnt a great source but nonetheless, like I said few posts earlier...No one is talking about snatching your or the guns of responsible citizens, one is only asking that guns dont fall in the hands of lunatics!
How do you determine if the prospective gun buyer is a 'lunatic'? What do YOU propose the method(s)?

And many a times it is as simple as increasing the age and doing a good background check....Those states that allow you to buy a gun without license : Among U.S. states, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Idaho (residents only), Kansas,Maine, Mississippi, Missouri, New Hampshire, North Dakota (residents only; concealed carry only), Vermont, West Virginia and Wyoming (residents only) are fully unrestricted, and allow those who are not prohibited from owning a firearm....THIS needs to be reformed!
Here is a map of mass shootings in 2018...

Fzxndmk.jpg


There is a map of US states with the most restrictive gun laws with gun deaths. Be prepared to be surprised when you superimpose the two maps. :enjoy:

Yea but which AMERICAN state allow you to drive without a license?
Here is vehicle regulation:
Vehicle regulations are requirements that automobiles must satisfy in order to be approved for sale or use in a particular country or region. They are usually mandated by legislation, and administered by a government body. The regulations concern aspects such as lighting, controls, crashworthiness, environment protection and theft protection.
That is not the point. Death is the point.

You mean terrorized the world? You helped only Europe...that too by dropping atomic bombs on Japan! Considered the most henious crime...In Vietnam also you showed a barbaric side of yourselves! Korean war, Gulf war....Kind of sounds like a war monger-er coz you need market for your guns!
If you want to debate those wars, start another thread. But this comment only proved what I said about you earlier -- that you are more interested in satisfying your need to feel morally superior to US. Not that you know what you are talking about.

MOST of the world is annoyed by school shootings in America as well as the gun culture.
Why? The mass shootings are in the US, not in their countries.

They have other problems like barely enough to eat, religious and political oppression, and/or lousy governance.

Do you really thing the French are 'annoyed' by US mass shootings when they are rioting in the streets over a proposed fuel tax increase?

No, the reality is more prosaic -- that you need US and our problems to escape yours.
 
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Yea but which AMERICAN state allow you to drive without a license?
Here is vehicle regulation:
Vehicle regulations are requirements that automobiles must satisfy in order to be approved for sale or use in a particular country or region. They are usually mandated by legislation, and administered by a government body. The regulations concern aspects such as lighting, controls, crashworthiness, environment protection and theft protection.

Are you telling me everyone driving a car in USA has a license. Nothing stops a criminal from driving a car.
We do not have a registry of gun owners. It is not going to prevent a crime especially mass shootings.
It may help in determining some of the petty crimes.

You mean terrorized the world? You helped only Europe...that too by dropping atomic bombs on Japan! Considered the most henious crime...In Vietnam also you showed a barbaric side of yourselves! Korean war, Gulf war....Kind of sounds like a war monger-er coz you need market for your guns!

It shoot your credibility commenting on things you have no knowledge.

Japan declared war on USA in 1941 at Pearl harbor.
If you cared about human lives American conventional invasion of Japan will cause more casualties than the atom bombs. You probably do not care about Japanese lives. war is a nasty business. Get used to it.

North Korea invaded South Korea. North Vietnam was a little sneaker. They sent in guerrilas knowing very well what a conventional attack would bring. The 1st Gulf war was Iraq invasion of Kuwait.

MOST of the world is annoyed by school shootings in America as well as the gun culture.

There is a lot of things Americans do that the world can be annoyed at. Gun shootings are among the lowest priority ones.
At the end of the day America's problems have to deal by Americans. Rest of the world can deal with theirs.

If you cant discuss a topic, dont cry about "care"...coz we all know you arent in Afghanistan and Iraq coz you "care" about the locals...Nor were you in Korea or Vietnam due to care...Nor do you drop bombs in Yemen and Pakistan due to care! So dont come here crying about "care"

Dropping bombs from drones in Pakistan is due to the inability of Pakistani state to control its territory. You do not see see American drone attacks on India, China or Maldives.
 
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America should ban guns .. less guns means less gun related crimes .

Oh yeah? Do countries ban vehicles when being used as weapons like its known in Europe? How about knives? Seeing dozens killed by those in China. Must be a good time to do so before it gets worse.
 
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Are you telling me everyone driving a car in USA has a license. Nothing stops a criminal from driving a car.
We do not have a registry of gun owners. It is not going to prevent a crime especially mass shootings.
It may help in determining some of the petty crimes.
So, the authorities are working?

It shoot your credibility commenting on things you have no knowledge.
And just because you only know 1 side or understand 1 narrative doesnt automatically mean you know it all!

Japan declared war on USA in 1941 at Pearl harbor.
If you cared about human lives American conventional invasion of Japan will cause more casualties than the atom bombs. You probably do not care about Japanese lives. war is a nasty business. Get used to it.
THIS alone shows your mentality...I wonder why America didnt just "get used to the consequences of minding other people's business a.k.a 9/11? But being a capitalist it even started profiting from dead people so yea cant even discuss with such a mindset!

America should ban guns .. less guns means less gun related crimes .
Apparently Americans dont just suck at geography but also in maths coz they have been unable to digest this equation...

A car and a gun. Each is a tool. One tool is licensed and one is not. Each have been used to commit crimes. And yet the gun is the greater evil even though the car -- as a tool of crime -- commit greater amount of crimes.

Most gun owners do not carry guns on their persons, I am a gun owner and in all my adult yrs of owning guns, I have concealed carry my pistol exactly four times, about once a DECADE and in each situation there was a higher risk of meeting danger. However, all car owners %99 of the time uses their cars, so inevitably, there would be more car deaths than gun deaths.

But the gun is the greater evil.

I understand that each tool have its original purpose. The car is for transportation. The gun is to kill. But if the justification to control guns is the quantity of deaths, then the original purpose of a tool is irrelevant because the car, despite its original intent, is the greater cause of many more deaths. It does not matter if the car death is from accidents or from misuse, such as deliberately running someone over or use for suicide (carbon monoxide poisoning). The end is still the same -- death.

If you want to control or ban guns because of its design intent -- to kill -- then be honest about it. But do not use quantity of deaths because...

https://fit.thequint.com/health-news/bathtub-death-do-occur-what-you-need-to-know
Now this is a fair answer!

Well, back to my original stance....No one is saying STOP using guns altogether...there is a difference between BAN and REGULATE! Between increasing laws and making it outlawed!
If you want to control or ban guns because of its design intent -- to kill -- then be honest about it. But do not use quantity of deaths because...
The tool is supposed to protect you when it starts killing more people than needed, maybe a new means of protection should be created! PLUS You have guns to protect you from OTHER GUN OWNERS (robbers/ gang) The other gun owners (criminals) are also using the same amendment as their right...So how is it protection when due to these lay laws (lack of regulation) even criminals can get guns?

If you want to control or even ban guns based upon design intent -- to kill -- be honest about it, but if you want to control/ban guns based upon quantity of deaths, then you better start with the car and the baths, then come for my guns.
See this is the problem! YOU automatically take REGULATING as BAN! It is not synonym!

How do you determine if the prospective gun buyer is a 'lunatic'? What do YOU propose the method(s)?
Just like how you ASSUME a witness/ accused is crazy or not? Psych test? Or provisional license like for driving? Where there is a will there is a way....

That is not the point. Death is the point.
And you assumed that on your own...Death is used as a measuring scale...The problem is danger/ threat and ultimately death!

If you want to debate those wars, start another thread. But this comment only proved what I said about you earlier -- that you are more interested in satisfying your need to feel morally superior to US.
And we topped the BS meter right here!

Assume away, I also have my assumptions about you and they proved me right...You dont understand regulations and think of it as a ban despite my repeatedly calling it regulations!
Not that you know what you are talking about.
Typical of someone who has no arguments.....

You pretty much know that was to a certain point you raised not at all about the war...

No, the reality is more prosaic -- that you need US and our problems to escape yours.
And how does this not sound like the need to be superior? Psychological projection :agree:

Suit yourselves! I got a clear picture of why the struggle for gun control/ regulation is still a struggle and you guys have had soo many marches after shootings...Thick heads dont understand until it hits them hard I guess! Suit yourselves!
 
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