American kids are 'political pawns' in gun control battle, CEOs say

[jhungary]

That is what we are here to discuss!

The gap and why the need to arm themselves! If xyz can be achieved by other countries why has America failed?


Again no one is going 0% to 100% ...there are numbers in between and they are better than 0% to 100%!


Tell me 1 law that is 100% ...Since there is none, should we abolish every law on the planet? AFTERALL none is 100%, right?!


By swinging at extremes! No one is talking about complete ban! I already made it clear but you seem insistent that not until it is 100% successful or 0% crime rate, it shouldnt even be discussed! or worse, should be laughed at!


So where are the illegal guns coming from? I doubt it rains guns in America!

When you claim the illegal guns are a problem, now you refuse to discuss the problem...


Switzerland:
Gun sellers follow strict licensing procedures.

Daniel Wyss, the president of the Swiss weapons-dealers association, in a gun shop.
REUTERS/Arnd Wiegmann
Swiss authorities decide on a local level whether to give people gun permits. They also keep a log of everyone who owns a gun in their region, known as a canton, though hunting rifles and some semiautomatic long arms are exempt from the permit requirement.

But cantonal police don't take their duty dolling out gun licenses lightly. They might consult a psychiatrist or talk with authorities in other cantons where a prospective gun buyer has lived before to vet the person.

Some lawmakers in US states including New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, and Rhode Island are considering a similar model.

Swiss laws are designed to prevent anyone who's violent or incompetent from owning a gun.

Nina Christen of Switzerland at the Olympic Games in Rio in August 2016.
Sam Greenwood/Getty Images
People who've been convicted of a crime or have an alcohol or drug addiction aren't allowed to buy guns in Switzerland.

The law also states that anyone who "expresses a violent or dangerous attitude" won't be permitted to own a gun.

Gun owners who want to carry their weapon for "defensive purposes" also have to prove they can properly load, unload, and shoot their weapon and must pass a test to get a license.

Another point is :
Switzerland is also one of the richest, healthiest, and, by some measures, happiest countries in the world.

https://www.businessinsider.com/swi...os-violent-or-incompetent-from-owning-a-gun-8

So maybe Americans shouldnt own gun until they reach this utopia!

As for Sweden [no idea what BS you are throwing hoping something sticks] = It is illegal for a civilian in Sweden to carry a firearm, unless for a specific, legal purpose;such as hunting or attending shooting ranges. To transport firearms, there are rules to adhere to;the general regulations are that the gun must be unloaded, hidden and transported in a safe and secure way under supervision.

I dont see that equivalent to American "lax" laws!




And here comes the accusing bit!

I am talking about gun control in America...and I am taking examples from other countries that have been successful in bringing down mass shootings! You arent even sure what you are to discuss...Let me try your approach:

Face it, you are here not to discuss the gun control but to "save" poor America from being told the truth about its gun laws!

I can't be bothered to read the rest ESP when you dont even know what you are supposed to discuss and jump to accusations!

Look, buddy.

First of all, you don't know anything about Gun Law in America, as per our convo, you think "Gun Control" in America does not exist. Let me, an ex FFL title 2 dealer license holder tell you this, Gun Law in the US, in some case, is tougher than most "Gun Countrol" country such as Australia or UK, and I have already mentioned why. I am not going to come back to that.

Secondly, you ARE the one that keep talking about Terrorism, or about how "White People" were never called Terrorist, that have nothing to do with Gun Control in the US.

Thirdly, you talked about how US kill this overseas or kill that overseas or waging war, again, that is NOT about gun control.

It's pretty obvious you have your own agenda here. I come here expecting a good discuss, but ended up some dude tell me what warmongering US foreign policy is, and whining about how White people were never called a terrorist.

Would Gun Control curb Mass shooting? The Case of Australia already told you no. On the other hand, Would lax gun control law encourage mass shooting? The case of Canada, Sweden and Switzerland already told you no. You don't want to discuss that, yet, you talk to me about how Terrorist blah, blah, blah.

 

[Dubious]

Secondly, you ARE the one that keep talking about Terrorism, or about how "White People" were never called Terrorist, that have nothing to do with Gun Control in the US.

Examples really do fly above your head...THAT I have noticed!

The case of Canada, Sweden and Switzerland already told you no

And I already proved you wrong...You cant play with words and superficially without examining the issue! O wait ...no wonder you want a 0-100% extremity only coz you cant understand that analysis and data comes from in between these no.!

You don't want to discuss that, yet, you talk to me about how Terrorist blah, blah, blah.

You are the one who accused me not I.
You are also the one who is being childish and going blah blah...

Here is the one who brought in the terrorist argument from regulating religion:

What was the consensus of Mohammad Omar to be a 'mullah' who led the Taliban? Who certified Jorge Mario Bergoglio to become Pope Francis?

Kindly learn to read you may learn something or another!

 

[Nilgiri]

meh, have to go back to work in 2 days. So not going to stay long.

Ok hope you return after that at some point. Seasons greetings and a Happy new year in advance!

 

[jhungary]

Examples really do fly above your head...THAT I have noticed!

So white man not being called terrorist is related to gun control.

Got it?

Again, what do you know about Firearms Control in the US, maybe you can name me some legistration example me, a licensed Federal Firearms dealer, don't know.

And I already proved you wrong...You cant play with words and superficially without examining the issue! O wait ...no wonder you want a 0-100% extremity only coz you cant understand that analysis and data comes from in between these no.!

Did you?

Your simply point out Switzerland have national gun registration, do not allow open carry mean nothing in Gun Controlling, all those are done AFTER a weapon were purchased. Just because you have to register your weapon, it does not mean I cannot let someone else use it illegally or I myself use it illegally.

Gun Control, by its namesake, is about CONTROLLING the free flow of firearms. I does not matter and did not CONTROL the weapon if I will let you buy these firearms regardless whether or not you register your firearms. Do you even know what is Gun Control?

And again, lack of knowledge on US Gun Law work against you.

US does not allow OPEN CARRY unless you are licensed and met certain requirement. Same thing as Switzerland, in some state of American, no open carry is allowed at all.

Switzerland on the other hand, DOES NOT HAVE LAW to control CONSEALED CARRY, you can carry your weapon on you in Switzerland WITHOUT a permit, as long as it is not openly shown the weapon.

You mixed up the concept on your own point.

And finally, US does not allow criminal and mentally unstable person to own their own firearms too, That's what Brady act is for.

And it is INTERNATIONALLY recognized that Switzerland and Sweden have even lax gun law than in the US. Switzerland did not have import/export control of weapons. Which mean you can buy your weapon from Germany or whatever (If you can) and carry them over to Switzerland and Sweden and use it given you register your weapon. You cannot do it in US, all import/export must go thru licensed gun dealer.

Also, the calibre and which type of weapon you are allowed to buy is more lax in Sweden and Switzerland than in the US, again, there are no TITLE 2 Restriction in Sweden and Switzerland, there are in the US. For example, Switzerland DOES NOT have a control on Projectile Calibre, only Projectile type, so you can buy a 20mm FMJ Anti-material rifle round in Switzerland legally but US does have calibre and type control, which make anything larger than a .50 BMG illegal to purchase as per Title 2.

So, by that, you have proof nothing.

You are the one who accused me not I.
You are also the one who is being childish and going blah blah...

That's because you are the one that said it, I NEVER brought national foreign policy and terrorism problem into this discussion, YOU DO.

Here is the one who brought in the terrorist argument from regulating religion:
Kindly learn to read you may learn something or another!

Then can you KINDLY LEARN how to distinguish between people?

ARE YOU TALKING TO ME OR @gambit?

Did I once mentioned anything about Foreign Policy or Terrorism?

I wonder how you become a monitor in this forum? this forum is really going to hell in a handbasket.

Ok hope you return after that at some point. Seasons greetings and a Happy new year in advance!

yeah, I was tasked for a case here in Australia, funny enough is about a father shoot and kill 2 of his children and killed himself (Talk about gun control in Australia eh)

I just pull a 20 days shift, and then I am working thru the holiday, trying to find the reason why a father will kill his daughter and son and killed himself...

 

[Nilgiri]

yeah, I was tasked for a case here in Australia, funny enough is about a father shoot and kill 2 of his children and killed himself (Talk about gun control in Australia eh)

I just pull a 20 days shift, and then I am working thru the holiday, trying to find the reason why a father will kill his daughter and son and killed himself...

Damn that sucks bro...trying to piece together motive for something like that...ugh.

You work for Oz state or federal police?

 

[jhungary]

Damn that sucks bro...trying to piece together motive for something like that...ugh.

You work for Oz state or federal police?

NSW Police, but sometime I got tasked for AFP too. That's because I am a civilian analyst, jurisdiction rule does not applies to me lol

And yeah, it's sucks to try to pick up the piece and put it back together as to why 3 people is dead (Actually, 4 now, because the wife just killed herself as well) but well, the public need to know the truth, and we put 2 months of work trying to see how it come down to this and what we can do to prevent such thing from happening again, a report I am doing will be presented to Coroner Office.

Just spend 20 days talking to people who know the man, the man is 60 some years old, his wife is in mid-30s, and is Russian, his two children are 13 and 15, and he worked as an accountant. So, marriage problem is what I am sensing. But not all marriage break down leading to the father killing the whole family (Literally) so, we need to know why he snapped.

 

[Dubious]

So white man not being called terrorist is related to gun control.

Got it?

Again seems like quoting out of context is your expertise! Got it!

Again, what do you know about Firearms Control in the US, maybe you can name me some legistration example me, a licensed Federal Firearms dealer, don't know.

It is all on the net as well as the numerous articles I presented BEFORE you came on the thread but I know you are not interested...Do google on your own time!

Did you?

Your simply point out Switzerland have national gun registration, do not allow open carry mean nothing in Gun Controlling, all those are done AFTER a weapon were purchased. Just because you have to register your weapon, it does not mean I cannot let someone else use it illegally or I myself use it illegally.

You can answer for it too and it will come back to the registered person so maybe, just maybe that is why they dont?! When was the last mass killing in Switzerland that you are trying to equate it to US? When it comes to examples of regulation....you have excuses like xyz country is smaller than US, population is smaller and so on but suddenly Switzerland is a perfect match even when they dont have a record of scattered mass shootings every few months like the US?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...s-its-guns-but-mass-shootings-rare/358500002/

US does not allow OPEN CARRY unless you are licensed and met certain requirement. Same thing as Switzerland, in some state of American, no open carry is allowed at all.

Switzerland on the other hand, DOES NOT HAVE LAW to control CONSEALED CARRY, you can carry your weapon on you in Switzerland WITHOUT a permit, as long as it is not openly shown the weapon.

You would have noticed I know that if you bothered to look at the links I put up...Kind of proving you dont read any link no wonder you enjoy throwing your weight around!

My point is not WHAT Switzerland is doing you brought that up as an example not me! So I dont need to prove Switzerland's gun laws....In fact you kind of forgot how Switzerland doesnt have "frequent" mass shootings like the US despite you pointing out the obvious similarities!

I already pointed out why so!

Secondly, you ARE the one that keep talking about Terrorism, or about how "White People" were never called Terrorist, that have nothing to do with Gun Control in the US.

I dont keep talking about it. I brought it up as 1 example because gambit brought in religion...And you quoted it out of context, when replied to you made it sound like that is all I talked about! Kind of shows bigotry on your part...Sad to see such people having a "professional" title!

I wont continue this any further when it is clear you dont just accuse, but you also bash. In addition to that you quote out of context and I for once dont find it meaningful to waste time on such people!

 

[jhungary]

Again seems like quoting out of context is your expertise! Got it!

Oh, it is out of my expertise? Let's see

I am a former Title 2 Firearms dealer.
I am a former Police Officer
I am a former US Army Counter-Intelligence Specialist
I am a CURRENT NSW Police Force employee
I am an American
I am a Swedish Citizen
I am an Australian Citizen

So what's your expertise in this field?

Oh wait, you still have no explain the different.

It is all on the net as well as the numerous articles I presented BEFORE you came on the thread but I know you are not interested...Do google on your own time!

So, you cannot answer the question? Let's start small

What is a BATF controlled weapon list and what is a transfer stamp?

Can you answer me these 2 question?

You can answer for it too and it will come back to the registered person so maybe, just maybe that is why they dont?! When was the last mass killing in Switzerland that you are trying to equate it to US? When it comes to examples of regulation....you have excuses like xyz country is smaller than US, population is smaller and so on but suddenly Switzerland is a perfect match even when they dont have a record of scattered mass shootings every few months like the US?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...s-its-guns-but-mass-shootings-rare/358500002/

You still don't understand the argument. The Argument is about laxing gun control would "spurn" mass shooting, that was your point.

My point is, it does not have any relation, because
A.) Country with less control gun law (In this case Switzerland) have virtually no mass shooting.
B.) The precent of person who acquire weapon solely intended to commit crime is neglectable on the background of gun ownership in the US. And also, most mass shooting were committed with an illegal weapon.

Again, you are agreeing my point as your argument.

You would have noticed I know that if you bothered to look at the links I put up...Kind of proving you dont read any link no wonder you enjoy throwing your weight around!

My point is not WHAT Switzerland is doing you brought that up as an example not me! So I dont need to prove Switzerland's gun laws....In fact you kind of forgot how Switzerland doesnt have "frequent" mass shootings like the US despite you pointing out the obvious similarities!

Again, you are arguing my point as your point.

Read above.

I already pointed out why so!

I dont keep talking about it. I brought it up as 1 example because gambit brought in religion...And you quoted it out of context, when replied to you made it sound like that is all I talked about! Kind of shows bigotry on your part...Sad to see such people having a "professional" title!

I wont continue this any further when it is clear you dont just accuse, but you also bash. In addition to that you quote out of context and I for once dont find it meaningful to waste time on such people!

Well, you have talked about it in 3(THREE) instance out of our 4 (FOUR) Exchange, that is the definition "Keep" bringing it up.

Again, the fact that you know absolutely zero and still talking about it amaze me.

You have obviously do not know what is Federal Firearm Act in the US (or how many ordinance written regarding federal firearms law) because if you know about anything on gun control, you will know for the first thing, there are Federal Law, and then there are local State law. You do not seems to be able to distinguish between the two, nor mention the discrepancy between the two. And you keep talking about US lacking gun control ba-dee-da.

 

[Dubious]

Oh, it is out of my expertise? Let's see

I am a former Title 2 Firearms dealer.
I am a former Police Officer
I am a former US Army Counter-Intelligence Specialist
I am a CURRENT NSW Police Force employee
I am an American
I am a Swedish Citizen
I am an Australian Citizen

So what's your expertise in this field?

Oh wait, you still have no explain the different.

No one is talking about your background but what you present. I cant be bothered to read further after this post I even have doubts that either you dont understand what I wrote or are deliberately just trolling!

Have a good day!

 

[gambit]

Sure:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44537028

And how does this proved otherwise? Convicted felons came into guns ILLEGALLY. What I said is about a convicted felon cannot purchase firearms LEGALLY. See the difference?

Not at all..I am pointing out a case that if America does xyz it wont be possible due to abc...Too hard for you to follow?

It is difficult for me to follow when you brought in pollution from cars when I was talking about how cars are used for crimes, therefore, we should institute psych evals before issuing driver's license. After all, you are for psych evals, right?

No one is saying must be...To learn from xyz doesnt make you xyz...What a childish thought?!

Not 'childish' at all. I do not have to look like 'xyz' to BEHAVE like 'xyz'. The bottom line is that you want US to be like others, which is the final goal of this thread.

You were trying to drag in Pakistan since past few threads...And now you are like I am not talking about this...You do need to see a doctor!

As for my criticism I am providing articles and sources as to why xyz is being discussed but you are merely like I am American...superiority complex at its best!

If I wanted to drag in your Pakistan, I would have done far more than just pointing out the absurdity of someone from a less developed country than US with far more problematic social and cultural issues than US and yet criticizing US for our domestic issues.

Wait who left? Your next generation left? When?
Your next generation wants America to move to a civilized world rather than cowboy era!

No...I mean immigrants who left their birth countries to settle in the US then want to change US into the countries they left.

If you come to America, put up with things that are uniquely American. No different than Britain. If you settle in Britain, put up with afternoon tea, the English accent, the monarchy, etc.

Here comes the I know it all attitude! A side of superiority complex...

I know the US better than you do. That is not any 'superiority complex'. I am a USAF veteran. So are you going to tell me that you know the USAF better than I?

It is not "OPINIONS" but examples of what America can become...

Yeah...Become like them.

How many people on this forum complains that American style democracy is not compatible with their countries? By that complaint, they do not like it that Americans tell them that their countries must become like US. Fair enough of a complaint and personally, I agree with that complaint.

So if you do not like your country to become like US, do not give your opinions or examples of what American can 'become', which is like you.

Who left? Do you even know who you are talking about or are you just trolling?

I know what I am talking about, which is immigrants to the US wanting the US to be like the countries they left.

Yea so much better....that you jail children in cages!

From a country where half the women are illiterate? Please...

Better in some aspects such as economically, freedom of expression but def not better when it comes to security because if America was secure, everyday people wouldnt need guns to "protect themselves" [this alone means the society isnt safe that is why the law has to be taken into their own hands]

This is sheer hyperbole from ignorance of US.

The vast majority of police officers in the US, state and federal levels, draws their weapons at the ranges. Extremely rare in the line of duty.

The vast majority of gun owners shoots at the ranges or in legitimate hunts during authorized hunting seasons. Extremely rare in self defense.

Again...The 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution is not about self defense against criminals but about the people's collective self defense against the potential of an oppressive government.

I am not talking about myself...I am talking about the next generation of Americans...THIS repeated RANT shows me you never read OP!

Read OP first then RANT!

Study US first, then opine.

Sure...If that will keep people at peace!

Let us know when your Pakistan take the lead in the Muslim world in giving psych evals to imams.

Kindly dont venture into a topic you are clueless about!

And there we have it -- the crux of the issue.

Funny how you admonished me to mind my own business yet you gave yourself the latitude to delve into ours.

Buddy...Currently, no one worries about Americans 'gun nuts' going about in their countries demanding changes in their countries' gun laws. But guess what kind of nutjobs every country worries about? How about the religious kind? The Islamic kind, maybe?

So take your own advice.

Many spoke against that (derailing are we?)

https://muslimscondemn.com/

But enough do not and support.

Tell me, how many overseas Americans demands changes in gun laws in other countries?

You see, for rating and whatnot some channels promote rubbish for example BBC took it upon itself to interview a bigot (Anjem Choudary) without any religious education as an important person in Islam ....Wonder why they chose him...He was nobody and suddenly he was on BBC every other day uttering BS! Media plays an important role in deciding who becomes the next top model!

In other words, Anjem Choudary played Muslims -- enough of them -- for fools. And since he has enough supporters, the media have to cover him and his ilk. Do not blame the media for this. They have their jobs.

That is not equal! Teachers, doctors and journalists each need a license while teachers and doctors need to pass exams to be qualified something gun owners are exempted from! While gun owner in SOME states (I have been going on about some states) are lenient!

Not good enough. The issue is the misuse of tools, and licenses are tools.

Your argument is that if guns are licensed and prospective buyers are given psych evals, then the gun violence in America would either disappeared or drastically reduced.

The presumed medicine is -- licensing.

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/n...o-incited-others-to-abuse-children-worldwide/

We can be sure Richard Clark was properly licensed as a teacher by the authorities in the UK. And yet, he used his skills for evil goals.

Worldwide, misuse of their positions by teachers and the clergy harmed people far more than guns have killed in America.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/05/buddhist-group-admits-sexual-abuse-by-teachers

Leaders of Shambhala International, which has more than 200 meditation centres across the world, including several in the UK, admitted to major failures in how it dealt with “abhorrent sexual behaviour”.

So where are YOUR criticisms against teachers and priests, and demand for psych evals?

Again...The presumed cure is -- LICENSING.