China's J-20 Fighter With Long-Awaited WS-15 Engines May Have Flown, more powerful than either F-22 and F-35

[beijingwalker]

More powerful than F-22 and F-35?


F-22 more than 20 years old at this point and no longer in production.

F-35 which has more than 500+ in operation and is single engine.

Interesting indeed i must say.

It's what Yahoo News said. read the OP article carefully.

 

[Deino]

Is it true they're 190kN??

I heard thsi too, but actually I would rate this with a lot of

 

[beijingwalker]

China’s J-20 to fly game-changing homemade engines​

Stealth fighter’s new WS-15 engine will close capability gaps with rival US jets and may enable deeper strikes on US bases
By GABRIEL HONRADA
JULY 1, 2023

China's J-20 stealth fighter may soon fly with more powerful engines. Image: Global Times

China’s J-20 stealth fighter has flown for the first time with indigenously-made WS-15 jet engines, marking what a potential game-changing upgrade for the type.

Last month, The Warzone reported that the test flight happened at the Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group’s main testing airfield, located next to its manufacturing facilities in its namesake city.

The Warzone notes that while blurry pictures make it difficult to ascertain whether the J-20 in question has WS-15 instead of WS-10 engines installed, nozzle serrations would be a reliable indicator, with the former having more nozzle serrations than the latter.

The report also notes that sound indicates whether the featured J-20 is equipped with new engines, noting that the test aircraft had a comparatively deep, dull rumble compared to WS-10-equipped units.

Although Warzone notes that a WS-15-powered J-20 flew in March 2022, it is believed that only one engine was fitted on the aircraft during that test. The report also claims China has mass-produced WS-10 and WS-15 engines, apparently overcoming technical bottlenecks in fitting the WS-15 to the J-20.

While the WS-15’s performance characteristics have not been disclosed, Asian Military Review noted in April 2023 that its thrust rating is most likely within the 150-kilonewton range, rivaling the US-made F-22’s Pratt & Whitney F119 engine.

In April 2022, Asia Times noted that initial J-20 models used less powerful Russian Saturn 117S and Chinese WS-10C engines, neither of which had enough power to reach desired speeds. The lack of thrust potentially made the type vulnerable in dogfights with US fighters.

Those underpowered engines may have also hindered the J-20’s upgrade potential, including in regard to directed energy weapons such as lasers or drone swarms.

The J-20 used Russian AL-31F engines for a period, but that was not a feasible option. Russia does not sell standalone AL-31F engines, so China had to purchase more Su-35s to get more engines.

However, an unnamed Chinese source quoted in the report said that longer range is the Su-35’s only advantage over the J-20, with the former’s radar, navigation system and other electronic components comparatively inferior.

The WS-15 may thus be a game-changer for the J-20, the type that is often deployed in the South China Sea with the possible aim of establishing air superiority in the event of a conflict with the US over the contested waterway.

China started J-20 patrols over the South China Sea in April 2022. As such, the J-20 also presents a formidable challenge to more advanced Southeast Asian air forces including Singapore’s, which operates the most advanced fighter fleet in the region.

At the same time, the J-20 will utterly outmatch weaker air forces in rival sea claimants like the Philippines, which has no multi-role fighters. However, China will likely deploy its J-20s only in the highest-risk scenarios, as they are likely too valuable to lose.

The J-20 may be the only Chinese aircraft able to match the US F-35, the only other stealth fighter operating in the region.

In March 2022, a close encounter between US F-35s and Chinese J-20s over the East China Sea demonstrated China’s impressive command and control over its fighters, although it is yet to be seen how China will employ its J-20 jets in the context of its anti-access/area denial (A2/AD) strategy.

Beyond the South China Sea, China could use its J-20s to strike at US bases in the First and Second Island Chains and interdict resupply efforts in the event of a Taiwan contingency.

Asia Times noted in January 2022 that continental powers such as China emphasize ground-based air defense, with their fighters deeply integrated within their air defense networks.

China may be attempting to expand on that concept by integrating air power in joint offensive and defensive operations to protect critical infrastructure and naval and ground operations.

R Kalidas and other writers note in a 2016 article in the peer-reviewed Transactions on Innovations in Science & Technology journal that the US-made F-22 has a maximum range of 2,960 kilometers, compared to the J-20’s 3,400 kilometers.

With China’s air defense doctrine and the J-20’s long range, Kris Douglas and other writers mention that the J-20’s large internal volume, lack of autocannon and supercruise capability indicate that it is optimized as a long-range interceptor and air-to-surface attack platform.''

In line with that, Military Watch reported in March 2022 that seven People’s Liberation Army-Air Force (PLA-AF) air brigades now deploy the J-20, with the 172nd Air Brigade in Tianjin, the 9th Air Brigade at Wuhu and the 1st Air Brigade at Anshan potentially deploying their aircraft in the East China Sea in proximity to the Korean Peninsula and Japan.

Moreover, Military Watch reported in June 2023 that the PLA-AF 131st Air Brigade based in Hainan has reportedly begun to operate J-20 fighters, with basing in that area an optimal location for the defense of Shanghai, Hangzhou, Guangzhou and Shenzhen, as well as for fortifying the island’s Longpo Naval Base, which serves as the hub for China’s nuclear submarine operations.

The report notes that Longpo Naval Base would be a likely target for US combat aircraft in a conflict scenario, making the deployment of the J-20 in Hainan a logical move to secure the strategic area.

An aerial photo of the Fiery Cross Reef, aka Yongshu Reef, released by the Chinese military. There will be a purpose-built berth for Chinese carriers. Photo: PLA Daily

Asia Times reported in March 2022 that China has fully militarized Mischief Reef, Subi Reef and Fiery Cross Reef in the South China Sea, will all three features now replete with airfields that can potentially house combat aircraft such as the J-20.

Those fortified islands can expand the offensive use of China’s airpower beyond Hainan and the country’s continental shores.

US bases such as Jinhae and Busan in South Korea, Okinawa in Japan and Guam in the Pacific may all now be in range of the J-20, with the aircraft able to conduct strikes far from China’s mainland and island airbases before retreating to the cover of its air defense network.

China’s J-20 to fly game-changing homemade engines

China’s J-20 stealth fighter has flown for the first time with indigenously-made WS-15 jet engines, marking what a potential game-changing upgrade for the type. Last month, The Warzone reported tha…

asiatimes.com

 

[maverick1977]

Specs on WS15 and how the performance envelope will change for J20 ?

 

[Brainsucker]

Specs on WS15 and how the performance envelope will change for J20 ?

I'm also curious about that too, but we won't get any information of it anytime soon. At this time, nobody know about it.

 

[MH.Yang]

More powerful than F-22 and F-35?


F-22 more than 20 years old at this point and no longer in production.

F-35 which has more than 500+ in operation and is single engine.

Interesting indeed i must say.

The avionics of F22 was designed 30 years ago, do you know how big the gap between the electronics 30 years ago and now?

And the F22's avionics and data communication chain are written in ADA-based language, a language that has been obsolete and simply cannot support the needs of modern fighters. the F22's actual operational capability may not be as good as the newly commissioned F16.

the F35 is a great aircraft, perhaps the best active fighter in the world.

But the biggest advantage of the F35 is not its individual strength, but the versatility of the F35. the F35 is both a bomber and a fighter, an early warning aircraft, an electronic warfare aircraft, etc.

The power of the F35 lies in its adaptation to the demands of modern information warfare. Information warfare is a system confrontation, not a fighter fighter solo.

 

[hyperman]

The WS-15 is not more powerful than the F135 in the F-35, I don't understand why people use clickbait. Yes the WS-15 is an important achievement for China, but people don't need to exaggerate.

 

[beijingwalker]

The WS-15 is not more powerful than the F135 in the F-35, I don't understand why people use clickbait. Yes the WS-15 is an important achievement for China, but people don't need to exaggerate.

It's from the OP article

With 4,000 pounds more thrust or more each than the J-20's existing WS-10s, WS-15s could give these already quite capable jets a significant boost in performance. At least on paper, this could make the J-20 more powerful thrust-wise than either of the other two fifth-generation fighters in widespread service today, the U.S. F-22 Raptor and F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

 

[CIA Mole]

It's from the OP article

terror feudal xi era thinking really dumbs you down doesn't it

the article is talking about the plane itself, not individual engine

1xF119 is 35000lb, with 2 on F22 that's 70000
1xF135 is 43000lb, with 1 on F35 that's 43000
1xWS-15 is 36000-40000lb, with 2 on J20 that's 72000-80000lb.

so yes J20 total thrust > F22 or F35, but F119 < WS15 < F135

u need to stop using xi jinping thought/math in ur daily life

 

[beijingwalker]

terror feudal xi era thinking really dumbs you down doesn't it

the article is talking about the plane itself, not individual engine

1xF119 is 35000lb, with 2 on F22 that's 70000
1xF135 is 43000lb, with 1 on F35 that's 43000
1xWS-15 is 36000-40000lb, with 2 on J20 that's 72000-80000lb.

so yes J20 total thrust > F22 or F35, but F119 < WS15 < F135

u need to stop using xi jinping thought/math in ur daily life

This is what the article is talking about,read the title again. Long live president Xi!

 

[hyperman]

It's from the OP article

Its misleading, 1 F135 generates

• 28,000 lbf (125 kN) military thrust,
• 43,000 lbf (191 kN) with afterburner

the WS-15 generates

• 105.22 kN (23,654 lbf) (military thrust)
• 161.865–181.37 kN (36,389–40,774 lbf)[15](afterburner)

they try to make it look like the WS-15 is more powerful by saying the J-20 has more thrust, but thats b/c the F-35 was designed as a single engined fighter, the engine itself is not not powerful, its b/c they are using 2 engines, instead of 1.

Also remember that the F135 is from the 2000s.

Its successor which ran in 2021 has performances at 200kN

Pratt & Whitney XA101 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[beijingwalker]

Its misleading, 1 F135 generates

• 28,000 lbf (125 kN) military thrust,
• 43,000 lbf (191 kN) with afterburner

the WS-15 generates

• 105.22 kN (23,654 lbf) (military thrust)
• 161.865–181.37 kN (36,389–40,774 lbf)[15](afterburner)

they try to make it look like the WS-15 is more powerful by saying the J-20 has more thrust, but thats b/c the F-35 was designed as a single engined fighter, the engine itself is not not powerful, its b/c they are using 2 engines, instead of 1.

Also remember that the F135 is from the 2000s.

Its successor which ran in 2021 has performances at 200kN

Pratt & Whitney XA101 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The article is from Yahoo, and still comparing to just a couple of years ago when everyone was assuming China couldn't produce a decent jet engine, this achievement is enough being a slap across their face.

 

[Ali_Baba]

The article is from Yahoo, and still comparing to just a couple of years ago when everyone was assuming China couldn't produce a decent jet engine, this achievement is enough being a slap across their face.

We only have a "headline" value of thrust - we of course dont know if that engine needs to be rebuilt after 100hrs of usage and thrown away after 400 hours total usage for a new one????????

So - we cannot make comparisons as the chinese are very "shy" about listing fuel rates, T/W ratio, MTBO, service life that "all" of the western engine manufacturers provide. ..

If/when China does provide that information, then we can of course have a debate... we just dont know.

The fact that China never publishes those, does suggest that China has only caught up partially. Once China catches up fully - we wont "stop" hearing about it from the Chinese .....

 

[Dalit]

It's for WS-10C
Anyway congratulations for your accomplishment

LOL at anway. Cunning little brahmin. Did you get Kashmir yet?

 

[Dalit]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1472568196100091904

LOL You got nothing lungi. We don't take you seriously.