Time to abandon Ummah / brotherhood for greater good of the nation?

[The SC]

Ummah is a good thing for Islam, not necessarily for Muslims. What benefit would Saudis get by diving oil at a discount to Muslim countries? Except the satisfaction that they are serving God's will, for all its worth.
The irony is that the advocates of Ummah serve only the purpose of Islam-bashers by promoting a fear among non-Muslims about Muslims ganging up. And in turn this blows back onto Muslims in the form of discrimination and racial profiling. It turns into a hate cycle.

If India has more than 1 billion population, why not Muslims, or that is called ganging up against someone.

 

[King Solomon]

Whenever this nationhood concept comes up, we have a bunch of quranic verses being posted. However, nobody tries to understand the context/meaning of those verses.

Anyway, the "nationhood" concept is a failed one - practically and theoritically. Only extremists influenced by mullahs harbor this so called "ummah" concept to mean a global calipate like this SC guy. These keyboard mullah extremists are enjoying the fruits of (infidel) secularism in their home country but wants to send other muslim countries to stone age like taliban afghanistan. Such hypocrites!

 

[aakash_2410]

This is a forum.
So who told you that "we" speak about our religion to everyone, everywhere and everytime, the least we can say is that you are a very self centric person.

And sorry to bother you but, we know that Hinduism is a very old pagan religion with elephant god, monkey god and many other gods.
I will be the first to be shy to talk about this kind of way of life; to worship animals lower than the human animal who himself is a lower form of life and needs something solid and proven to rely on, to be able to run a half decent life.

You clearly don't know sq*at about Hinduism. Those monkey god and elephant god are Hindu deity not Gods, Or Avatar of the God almighty. They are more like lucky charms who everyone prays to when they embark on something auspicious. There is only one god in Hinduism depending on which school of thoughts you follow/believe in.

By the way according to Islam, you're not Muslim anymore as well.

Because you're not supposed to make fun of anyone's belief system or religion because you'd provoke them and they might retaliate in the same manner by questening or defaming your true god Allah the almighty.

And you'd be commiting Shirke-e-Asghar indirectly by comparing anyone with God Almighty.

And if you've ever watched television, Listened to Music, Ever went of Facebook, Ever read your Horoscope, if you ever used internet banking, ever paid tax (ever bought anything with any sort of tax) they are all Haram. Do you do your five times a day Namaz everyday? So there is many things Koran teaches/tells which you don't follow.

So stop your hatred mate. It's not good for your health.

I can fill up pages writing about Islam but I don't wanna offend everyone because of one douche with twisted mind.

 

[somebozo]

Two different things. If you're just looking for benefit of your own country, even if some other Muslim country is being bombed the hell out by some Police State, you should then stop calling yourself Muslim, because Allah and His Messenger's instructions are very clear in this regard.

Pakistan's constitution states that Islam is above anything in this State and the sovereignty belongs to Allah alone, and the State has to follow every law of Qur'an. I'm just a citizen of this country and I will obey my constitution and my forefathers.

Irony is that today, we have people who are directly questioning Qur'an. Height of shame!

then we should not protest about breach of sovereignty when Americans sneak in and kill OBL..because it does not belong to us and we are not sovereign nation...What nonsense you are talking.

 

[The SC]

You clearly don't know sq*at about Hinduism. Those monkey god and elephant god are Hindu deity not Gods, Or Avatar of the God almighty. They are more like lucky charms who everyone prays to when they embark on something auspicious. There is only one god in Hinduism depending on which school of thoughts you follow/believe in.

By the way according to Islam, you're not Muslim anymore as well.


Because you're not supposed to make fun of anyone's belief system or religion because you'd provoke them and they might retaliate in the same manner by questening or defaming your true god Allah the almighty.

And you'd be commiting Shirke-e-Asghar indirectly by comparing anyone with God Almighty.

And if you've ever watched television, Listened to Music, Ever went of Facebook, Ever read your Horoscope, if you ever used internet banking, ever paid tax (ever bought anything with any sort of tax) they are all Haram. Do you do your five times a day Namaz everyday? So there is many things Koran teaches/tells which you don't follow.

So stop your hatred mate. It's not good for your health.

I can fill up pages writing about Islam but I don't wanna offend everyone because of one douche with twisted mind.

You lack of knowledge about Islam is obvious, and I won't blame you or your friends for that.

Go ahead and make my day, it is a challenge.

 

[King Solomon]

You clearly don't know sq*at about Hinduism. Those monkey god and elephant god are Hindhttp://www.defence.pk/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2923257u deity not Gods, Or Avatar of the God almighty. They are more like lucky charms who everyone prays to when they embark on something auspicious. There is only one god in Hinduism depending on which school of thoughts you follow/believe in.

By the way according to Islam, you're not Muslim anymore as well.

Because you're not supposed to make fun of anyone's belief system or religion because you'd provoke them and they might retaliate in the same manner by questening or defaming your true god Allah the almighty.

And you'd be commiting Shirke-e-Asghar indirectly by comparing anyone with God Almighty.

And if you've ever watched television, Listened to Music, Ever went of Facebook, Ever read your Horoscope, if you ever used internet banking, ever paid tax (ever bought anything with any sort of tax) they are all Haram. Do you do your five times a day Namaz everyday? So there is many things Koran teaches/tells which you don't follow.

So stop your hatred mate. It's not good for your health.

I can fill up pages writing about Islam but I don't wanna offend everyone because of one douche with twisted mind.

No... He is a Najdi/deobandi-inspired keyboard taliban extremist enjoying his life in an infidel secular Canada while advising other muslims to be talibans...

 

[The SC]

You clearly don't know sq*at about Hinduism. Those monkey god and elephant god are Hindu deity not Gods, Or Avatar of the God almighty. They are more like lucky charms who everyone prays to when they embark on something auspicious. There is only one god in Hinduism depending on which school of thoughts you follow/believe in.

By the way according to Islam, you're not Muslim anymore as well.

Because you're not supposed to make fun of anyone's belief system or religion because you'd provoke them and they might retaliate in the same manner by questening or defaming your true god Allah the almighty.

And you'd be commiting Shirke-e-Asghar indirectly by comparing anyone with God Almighty.

And if you've ever watched television, Listened to Music, Ever went of Facebook, Ever read your Horoscope, if you ever used internet banking, ever paid tax (ever bought anything with any sort of tax) they are all Haram. Do you do your five times a day Namaz everyday? So there is many things Koran teaches/tells which you don't follow.

So stop your hatred mate. It's not good for your health.

I can fill up pages writing about Islam but I don't wanna offend everyone because of one douche with twisted mind.

The guy was talking about Islam ignorantly, so I nicely sent him back to Hinduism where he belonged, and told him the truth about it, so that he can think about it more than about Islam.
That doesn't make me more or less Muslim .
Since we do not provoke, we do not have this concept.
but if you provoke A Muslim or the Ummah you should know and expect an answer proportionate to your provocation.
Now so long.

No... He is a Najdi/deobandi-inspired keyboard taliban extremist enjoying his life in an infidel secular Canada while advising other muslims to be talibans...

You did not have enough courage on your own, so you called up your Hindu and Zionist friends for help!
You are trolling and getting out of topic to hide your ill intentions and the twisted minds of your friends , it gives you nothing, you will still lose.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Why are u in canada then?Why live in the land of infidels?Why not go to the nations of ummah?Maybe because you would be treated like a second class citizen?For hypocrites like u living abroad then lecturing people-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnuyvlVZIKo

 

[batmannow]

Stupid, & ugly faces of demo-crazy-cly, united soverin nations, attacking poorly educateD, mently distrubed islamic world, have no right, to teach humanity as a division to capture, resourses on the , shamless agenda of the, division of ummaha?
Great examples were setup, by even , un-islamic nations, like china, cuba,&venezuala, that even a single nation, can defeat, any hurdle thrown at them?
So why, should not we try, to have a united muslim organization, on the basiss of free trade, economy, social & cultural contacts, freedom to travl, single currency, simple taxes, with a common, islAmic bassed law, & educational freedom, & off-course a common, & joint anti-terror policy? Even just 3 or 4 member, states can strat a model,front, & also common policy on world affairs, economy, surlly can do wonders? & still can make great progress?

 

[Desert Fox]

True, you might wish to check the references I posted in the first page. "Ummah" does not refer to giving up individual culture, traditions, borders etc and follwing one caliph as everyone seems to assume. It just means muslims be united in so far as religious entity (no sects) is concerned, not necessarily a political unity.

The EU/NATO model would fit best in that. While everybody preserves their culture/traditions/borders and unique norms, they become united as far as economic potential/military is concerned. This is the ideal model to follow for muslims.

Yes, unfortunately, Arabians are traitors who doesn't hesitate to take help from others when threatened by anyone. Just look at how UAE shamelessly begged for some F 22s a few days ago for Iran. Look at how they begged US to deal with Saddam.

One of the best posts i have come across on this thread!

 

[King Solomon]

One of the best posts i have come across on this thread!

Thanks mate. Ironical to note that non-muslims today are following the concepts and theories introduced in the Koran while muslims are fighting against each other and squandering over their own delusional concept of ummah where a western muslim, CAR muslim, Russian muslim, south asian muslim all follow an Arab caliph and adopts Arabian culture/traditions! I suspect this extrapolation of "umah" concept to be invented by the Najdi/Deobandi/Wahabi extremists to control gullible Muslims all over the world through blackmailing.

 

[laiqs@mi]

Why are u in canada then?Why live in the land of infidels?Why not go to the nations of ummah?Maybe because you would be treated like a second class citizen?For hypocrites like u living abroad then lecturing people-
Hassan Nisar about Muslim Ummah - YouTube

what if he is in canada?? its his life and he is free to choose where to live. when you guys fail on argument you start personal attack.
and this guy nisar is one of the most Baighairat person on media we have. you indians like only those persons who talk against islam. and here one or muslims with bunch of non muslims hindus targeting islam and ummah. how ironic.

True, you might wish to check the references I posted in the first page. "Ummah" does not refer to giving up individual culture, traditions, borders etc and follwing one caliph as everyone seems to assume. It just means muslims be united in so far as religious entity (no sects) is concerned, not necessarily a political unity.

The EU/NATO model would fit best in that. While everybody preserves their culture/traditions/borders and unique norms, they become united as far as economic potential/military is concerned. This is the ideal model to follow for muslims.
.

i agree with these points. but giving up ummah totaly what is in discussion.

 

[King Solomon]

i agree with these points. but giving up ummah totaly what is in discussion.

There are strict limitations to that as well. in short, fix your own house first before even considering helping others. Check here:

This is a very bad concept. If you look at the Koran, you will see that for charity, it is specially urged that you pay charity to your needy family members first before even considering giving charity to outsiders.

What does this mean? Help yourselves first before even thinking of helping others. Yes, your "brothers" in religion elsewhere may be in a worse situation but you are in no position to help them when your own house is not in order. Especially for a poor country like pakistan, such help is out of question.

The political leadership use such sentiments to manipulate people. They blackmail people like "if you don't help your brother you are Kafir" and use it to meet their own ends.

 

[somebozo]

Stupid, & ugly faces of demo-crazy-cly, united soverin nations, attacking poorly educateD, mently distrubed islamic world, have no right, to teach humanity as a division to capture, resourses on the , shamless agenda of the, division of ummaha?
Great examples were setup, by even , un-islamic nations, like china, cuba,&venezuala, that even a single nation, can defeat, any hurdle thrown at them?
So why, should not we try, to have a united muslim organization, on the basiss of free trade, economy, social & cultural contacts, freedom to travl, single currency, simple taxes, with a common, islAmic bassed law, & educational freedom, & off-course a common, & joint anti-terror policy? Even just 3 or 4 member, states can strat a model,front, & also common policy on world affairs, economy, surlly can do wonders? & still can make great progress?

only theoritical rant..no practical implementation..so its useless to talk about it..lets be practical with what is available on not what the book says can be done

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

what if he is in canada?? its his life and he is free to choose where to live. when you guys fail on argument you start personal attack.

First of all this has nothing to do with islam as a whole,only the ummah debate.My point is if he is such a believer in ummah why doesn't he practice living in a muslim country?Why go abroad and then lecture.
Maybe because in his ummah he would have no where near the facilities or privilages he has in canada,and would be treated as second class citizen.Its utter hypocrisy to live in the west then talk about ummah,means he actually doesn't believe in what he says.Preach what u practice.