Resuming the Islamic Way of Life!

[_NOBODY_]

You took a dig at my family and I responded. Read your own post.

My family moved from our ancestoral lands when faced with the Indian army and it's RSS hordes. Once the women and children were safe, the men went back to fight, some where martyred too.

We moved to the UK to escape abject poverty - the same for all people in our region of Mirpur/AJK. The kind of poverty our people faced you middle class city dwellers can never imagine. The first electric bulb in our village was in mid late 80's. The first road to our village was build around the same time. Our ill would be carried to hospital through the mountains, multiple KM on charpai's before they could get to a road and get the bus to the nearest city.

There are still villages in Pakistan today where there is no electricity, there is no road, there is no healthcare.

To pass judgement on such people is easy say in DHA or Bharia in an AC room, speaking perfect English from your expensive private education. May Allah swt bless you with more, but you can't understand the decisions people make to migrate without being in their shoes. When our people's elders migrated it was to escape famine, to escape sleeping in the same rooms as their cattle, it wasn't freelancers and doctors looking for a new challenge and upgrading their Honda Civic to an Audi.

My parents were also born in households that were living far below the poverty line. My father built his wealth through working his *** off in Saudi Arabia for more than 40 years, he moved to KSA when he was only 18. My parents also migrated for a better life. My point still stands, had we been born in the post-1600s Ottoman, we too would have tried everything in our power to move to an industrialized and successful empire if possible. The Arabs were 100% correct in revolting.

 

[_NOBODY_]

The Arabs are now calling for Khilafat more than the others.

I have lived in the Middle East for more than 15 years. Not a single Arab ever suggested such a thing while I was there. Also, where exactly did you get this information from?

 

[R2D2]

My parents were also born in households that were living far below the poverty line. My father built his wealth through working his *** off in Saudi Arabia for more than 40 years, he moved to KSA when he was only 18. My parents also migrated for a better life. My point still stands, had we been born in the post-1600s Ottoman, we too would have tried everything in our power to move to an industrialized and successful empire if possible. The Arabs were 100% correct in revolting.

Everybody revolted in 1300 years of Khilafah histort from arabs to spain to Iraq to Iran. It is a rich history with its ups and downs. Arabs are now calling for the resumption of Khilafah more than the Turks.

I have lived in the Middle East for more than 15 years. Not a single Arab ever suggested such a thing while I was there. Also, where exactly did you get this information from?

You must have lived there long time back. I studied Dr Israr Ahmed and have my own ideas as well.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

Arabs were 100% correct in revolting.

For this in exchange. Check the casualties.

List of modern conflicts in the Middle East - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Ottoman Empire has the longest record of peace in middle east history. Now Arabs plead with the 'international community'.

Arab Article: In Sudan, where is the international community's responsibility to protect?
"It is as if regional states and the international community have decided to abandon the country and its people"
.

 

[Azadkashmir]

arabs will talk of khalifah when oil runs out and its back to fighting kafirs and taking booty.

 

[_NOBODY_]

For this in exchange. Check the casualties.

List of modern conflicts in the Middle East - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Ottoman Empire has the longest record of peace in middle east history. Now Arabs plead with the 'international community'.

Arab Article: In Sudan, where is the international community's responsibility to protect?
"It is as if regional states and the international community have decided to abandon the country and its people"
.

There were no wars happening inside the British Raj either does this mean that the people of South Asia should have been completely ok with being the slaves of the British?

You must have lived there long time back. I studied Dr Israr Ahmed and have my own ideas as well.

I grew up with Saudi and other Arab kids over there and continue to remain in contact with them. The Saudi youth has no such plans. Their priority is eliminating their reliance on oil and making their country as independent and technologically advanced as possible.

 

[nahtanbob]

For this in exchange. Check the casualties.

List of modern conflicts in the Middle East - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Ottoman Empire has the longest record of peace in middle east history. Now Arabs plead with the 'international community'.

Arab Article: In Sudan, where is the international community's responsibility to protect?
"It is as if regional states and the international community have decided to abandon the country and its people"
.

If India was ruled by the Ottomans it would be another Afghanistan

 

[Azadkashmir]

If India was ruled by the Ottomans it would be another Afghanistan

maybe but east india company would not have the ability to take over.

 

[R2D2]

If India was ruled by the Ottomans it would be another Afghanistan

Pakistan is worse than Afghanistan today because we have been ruled by America for the last 76 years.

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

Pakistan is worse than Afghanistan today because we have been ruled by America for the last 76 years.

Dr. Israr Ahmed said that Pakistan and Afghanistan should become one country one day.

And Insh'Allah it will happen.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

There were no wars happening inside the British Raj either does this mean that the people of South Asia should have been completely ok with being the slaves of the British?

Not an accurate comparison. Does not make historical sense to equate Turks to the British from the other side of the world.

Rise of Arab nationalism

As the Ottoman Empire entered the First World War in 1914 the loyalty of its Arab subjects could no longer be taken for granted.

nzhistory.govt.nz

'The Ottoman Empire had exercised formal sovereignty over the lands of Arabia since the early 16th century. For much of that time it had ruled with a comparatively light touch, garrisoning key trading ports and maintaining an official presence in the Islamic holy cities of Mecca and Medina, but otherwise leaving the region and its nomadic tribal clans to their own devices. ... The inhabitants of these regions largely accepted this arrangement: Arab (Sunni) Muslims faced little, if any, discrimination for most of the empire’s history and in fact came to dominate the local Ottoman imperial administration. Through these different approaches the Ottoman Turks maintained the loyalty of their diverse Muslim Arab subjects. But as the Ottoman Empire entered the First World War in 1914 this loyalty could no longer be taken for granted, for two reasons. The first was the growth of a nascent Arab nationalism that drew inspiration from 19th-century Western ideas.'

So, the empire's decline happened because of the rise of Arab and Turkish nationalistic ideas. Islamic rule is always tolerant of ethnic and religious differences. Jews and Christians had their own court systems.

If India was ruled by the Ottomans it would be another Afghanistan

That is a wild claim. Afghanistan is wild. Most of the descendants of the Ottoman ruling family were exiled to Europe, America, Middle East, and others have recently returned to Turkey.

Osmanoğlu family - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

'Their descendants now live in many countries throughout Europe, as well as in the United States, the Middle East, and since they have now been permitted to return to their homeland, many now also live in Turkey.'

 

[_NOBODY_]

Not an accurate comparison. Does not make historical sense to equate Turks to the British from the other side of the world.

It doesn't matter where they came from. The land that they conquered wasn't their ancestral land.

The inhabitants of these regions largely accepted this arrangement: Arab (Sunni) Muslims faced little, if any, discrimination for most of the empire’s history and in fact came to dominate the local Ottoman imperial administration. Through these different approaches the Ottoman Turks maintained the loyalty of their diverse Muslim Arab subjects.

Of course, they accepted the arrangement, they lost. What else can the defeated do? The British also offered administrative jobs to the people of South Asia. It would be incredibly counterproductive to not utilize the human resources of the conquered territories. There was little to no development happening in the Arab side of the Ottoman Empire when compared to Anatolia and its European territories. Just like there was a lot of development happening in the Kingdom of Great Britain and hardly any development in the British Raj.

So, the empire's decline happened because of the rise of Arab and Turkish nationalistic ideas.

What do you think led to the rise of Arab nationalism? Do you believe that the Arab nationalism came out of the blue? The Ottoman Empire's economic situation was the biggest reason for the rise of Arab nationalism.

Islamic rule is always tolerant of ethnic and religious differences. Jews and Christians had their own court systems.

Was fratricidal warfare also part of Islamic rule? If not then how can you call the Ottoman rule Islamic?

 

[R2D2]

It doesn't matter where they came from. The land that they conquered wasn't their ancestral land.

Of course, they accepted the arrangement, they lost. What else can the defeated do? The British also offered administrative jobs to the people of South Asia. It would be incredibly counterproductive to not utilize the human resources of the conquered territories. There was little to no development happening in the Arab side of the Ottoman Empire when compared to Anatolia and its European territories. Just like there was a lot of development happening in the Kingdom of Great Britain and hardly any development in the British Raj.

What do you think led to the rise of Arab nationalism? Do you believe that the Arab nationalism came out of the blue? The Ottoman Empire's economic situation was the biggest reason for the rise of Arab nationalism.


Was fratricidal warfare also part of Islamic rule? If not then how can you call the Ottoman rule Islamic?

The succession system of Caliph was corrupted and the rest of the laws were Islamic.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

It doesn't matter where they came from. The land that they conquered wasn't their ancestral land.

Nobody said it was.

Empire wouldn't have lasted centuries if locals weren't part of it, benefiting locals. Arabs were the local administrators. They weren't pleading with a no-face entity called 'international community'. Ottoman empire provided security, stability, and kept extremists in check.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/Ottoman-soliders-at-al-aqsa.jpg

^Ottoman soldiers guarding alAqsa. Overtime, the values of people shifted to nationalism and the empire weakened. Had they maintained it with a modern vision Middle East would be a union like NATO and EU today. 9/11 wouldn't have happened.

 

[Indos]

Dr. Israr Ahmed said that Pakistan and Afghanistan should become one country one day.

And Insh'Allah it will happen.

That is the TTP dream, once they are able to conquer all the Pasthun region of Pakistan, they will likely merge with Afghan where 70 % of them are Pasthun.

The succession system of Caliph was corrupted and the rest of the laws were Islamic.

Not only succession system, they also corrupt the law as King and his families are above law and they dont really use consultation system where in many part of modern world become parliament and parliament that make the law and approved budget and long term economic planning.

Kingdomship is also authoritarian system which are the opposite of consultation system seen in Surah As-Shura

But I dont blame Kingdomship during ancient time or the current one as it needs some qualities to really implement democracy effectively. In the end, the system needs the people as people that will run the system. Society that cannot solve their differences peacefully should be governed by authoritarian system.

Countries like Sudan, Yemen, Libya, Syria, Egypt have been proven as not able to run democratic system