TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[Glass]

Now as things are pacing up with TF-X it will get interesting who might join this project.

 

[Bismarck]

Homegrown fighter jet to fly with domestic engine by 2029

Turkey's first homegrown combat aircraft will make its maiden flight with a domestically-developed engine by 2029 while talks to recruit international partners continue
Turkey's TF-X National Combat Aircraft (MMU) – a joint project by the Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) and Presidency of Defense Industries (SSB) – is preparing for a maiden flight using a domestic engine in 2029.

Work to develop the engine continues at full speed, in cooperation with related institutions, according to Osman Dur, general manager of TR Engine, a new research and development (R&D) center for turboshaft engines.

He said some 80 engineers are working in the national fighter jet's domestic engine project, in cooperation with the Turkish Air Forces Command.

"The engine tests are set to be completed by 2026 or 2027. The MMU's maiden flight with a domestic engine will take place in 2029," he added.

The MMU is a fifth-generation jet with similar features to Lockheed Martin's F-35 Lightning II. The domestically-built aircraft is being developed to replace the Turkish Air Forces Command's F-16 fighters, ahead of the gradual phasing out of the latter throughout the 2030s.

Due to the gradual decommissioning of the F-16 combat aircraft over the next decade, the significance of the TF-X project has grown – not least as the U.S. has also halted the delivery of F-35 fighter jets to Turkey as part of a coercive effort against Ankara.

A mockup of the national combat aircraft was first showcased at the Paris Air Show in June 2019 and later at the Teknofest Istanbul in September.

The project to develop domestic capabilities to manufacture national jet fighter engines was initially launched by TAI but was later taken on by TR Engine, a company established in 2017 by the SSB to incorporate various engine-related projects under a single umbrella. Around 55% of the company is owned by Turkish defense contractor BMC, while TAI has a 35% stake. SSTEK, a subsidiary of the SSB, also has a 10% share in TR Engine.

In a statement to Anadolu Agency (AA) Friday, the General Manager of the group Osman Dur said the firm had been negotiating with international engineering and design firms, along with Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEM), given that design and production represented two separate operations. "There is no point in designing technologies that we cannot put into production. Therefore, we continue our best efforts to develop local suppliers for the domestic aircraft industry," he said.

HUMAN RESOURCES IN AVIATION

Dur said Turkey has a well developed institutional structure in the aviation and aerospace industry and there would be no problem in terms of human resources. "There are a few people who have experience in critical technologies-related sectors, but we have the experience and links to attract more human resources from around the world," he said.

He added that Turkey's civil aviation sector has been contributing to the defense industry in several technological spheres, including informatics, software and artificial intelligence (AI), as opposed to the past, when the defense industry used to support the development of civil industries.

He underscored TR Engine's role in uniting industry personnel with academicians working in the field. The center has also been encouraging university students to apply for work in the sector.

INVITATION TO MALAYSIA

TAI Chairman Temel Kotil told AA on Friday that the company had been carrying out projects on marketing and exports of recently-developed domestic products.

To this end, Turkey has invited Malaysia to join a mutual production of the MMU and Turkey's own training and light attack aircraft, the Hürjet. "We made them a proposal and they showed great interest," Kotil said.

He added that Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohammed had previously visited the TAI center, adding they also held bilateral meetings during President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's visit to Malaysia in December.

Turkey wants the TF-X project to be a multi-partnered program, like the one enjoyed by the F-35 fighter jet program. Other countries, especially in the Asia-Pacific, such as Malaysia, are being considered potential partners in the project by Ankara. According to sources, Turkey has already discussed partnership possibilities with other countries, but there is no done-deal yet.

Kotil noted that Malaysia has significant composite-producing centers, a recently-established composite valley being one of them, but the country lacked homegrown products in the aviation sector. TAI aims to provide cooperation to the southeast Asian country in this regard, to reach out to the Far East market, he said.

A cooperation memorandum has already been signed between the company and Malaysian counterparts in the composite field, he added.

TAI has been in negotiations for the mutual production of other aircraft as well, with the likes of Kazakhstan and Pakistan, to work on domestically-developed products like the Gökbey General Purpose Helicopter.

The MMU aircraft will have several new generation features, including low visibility, internal gun housing, high maneuverability, increased situational awareness and sensor fusion.

Meanwhile, Gökbey, which was designed to operate effectively in the most challenging climates and geographies, altitudes and temperatures, completed its first certification flight in July 2019.

The certification flight tests of a second prototype of the Gökbey helicopters, produced by TAI, are planned to be completed next year.

In addition to structural systems and avionics, Gökbey's design and production of critical systems like transmission, rotor and landing gear also used national resources.

original article: https://www.dailysabah.com/defense/...ghter-jet-to-fly-with-domestic-engine-by-2029

80 engineers? How many has TEI? Why not giving the project to TEI or working together with.

 

[Tsenal]

80 engineers? How many has TEI? Why not giving the project to TEI or working together with.

TR-MOTOR was founded in 2017 so the engine development is still in the early stages. As the development progresses, more engineers will join.

 

[Bogeyman]

Synthesis and Characterization of Epoxy/Boron Nitride Composite for Aerospace Applications - Page 87
http://kutuphane.msu.edu.tr/medas/?...nu=&tur=&gorunum=listeBuyuk&sno=3#katalog|191
Simulation modeling for F-16s in 2 to 1 air battles - page 95
http://kutuphane.msu.edu.tr/medas/?...nu=&tur=&gorunum=listeBuyuk&sno=3#katalog|191

 

[Inspector Spacetime]

Synthesis and Characterization of Epoxy/Boron Nitride Composite for Aerospace Applications - Page 87
http://kutuphane.msu.edu.tr/medas/?...nu=&tur=&gorunum=listeBuyuk&sno=3#katalog|191
Simulation modeling for F-16s in 2 to 1 air battles - page 95
http://kutuphane.msu.edu.tr/medas/?...nu=&tur=&gorunum=listeBuyuk&sno=3#katalog|191

Bogeyman, I think you will appreciate this youtube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsaSquucCBRqm5m2QPmEFdA

I am not affiliated with this channel in any form, it's a recent discovery for me as well. Judging by the contents of your posts, I think you might find this channel interesting. It focuses on infrastructure projects and developments in Turkey and what stages they are in.

 

[UkroTurk]

Why don't Turkey ask to UK about Harriers. UK supports Turkish mediterrian policy at least Brits dont want France occupied Libya. So for Turkish LHD they would sell old Harriers.

TAI would easly recreate old birds , alsotransform them into lethal birds and it would be great initial step for nextgen fighter project.

With a solid SAM system, from Anadolu LHD old Harriers could cope with a lot of threats.

 

[Glass]

Buy from the americans who have nowadays all the spare parts and the more modern ones and its unlikely that they will embargoe them in the mid term because they know if turkey doesnt get what it wants it will turn to Russia if it doesnt produce it by itself for now.

btw wrong thread this belongs to aviation programs

 

[hyperman]

Why don't Turkey ask to UK about Harriers. UK supports Turkish mediterrian policy at least Brits dont want France occupied Libya. So for Turkish LHD they would sell old Harriers.

TAI would easly recreate old birds , alsotransform them into lethal birds and it would be great initial step for nextgen fighter project.

With a solid SAM system, from Anadolu LHD old Harriers could cope with a lot of threats.

I believe the UK doesnt operate Harriers anymore, they were all sold off to the US, to be used as spare parts for the harriers in the USMC squadrons. The only other countries that operate harriers currently are the Spanish and the Italians, they seem unlikely to sell as it would degrade their capabilities, and there would still be a reliance on the US for parts. Turkey's best bet for naval air support is creating naval versions of its atak helicopter, that are deployed off its TCG Anadolu..

 

[dBSPL]

I believe the UK doesnt operate Harriers anymore, they were all sold off to the US, to be used as spare parts for the harriers in the USMC squadrons. The only other countries that operate harriers currently are the Spanish and the Italians, they seem unlikely to sell as it would degrade their capabilities, and there would still be a reliance on the US for parts. Turkey's best bet for naval air support is creating naval versions of its atak helicopter, that are deployed off its TCG Anadolu..

True, there are currently three countries as Harrier users. In Italy, it will be out of service very soon, and as far as I know, the number of Harrier in active service in the USA is gradually decreasing. Probably the last operator will be Spain, for a while.

There are three options if Turkey wants to establish a fixed-wing air wing in the framework of the TCG Anadolu task force:

1- To agree with the USA on F-35B.
2- Negotiating with Italy for its Harriers, as a Stop-Gap solution
3- Starting a project from scratch in partnership with China or Russia.

All three options have major technical or political challenges.

LHD ships are not suitable for STOBAR operation. Even if such a modification occurs on ships, the sortie capacity will be very low / unusable. Only STOVL (or SRVL) fixed wing alternatives can be considered, which is the biggest advantage of Lockheed at the moment there is no equivalent aircraft in the market.

 

[hyperman]

Negotiating with Italy for its Harriers, as a Stop-Gap solution

the harrier supply lines are shut and the US owns all the spare parts supply, it was the main reason as to why the British harriers were purchased, to cannabalize them for parts. The Italian harriers are at the end of their service life, keeping them running would be prohibitively expensive and would require parts from the US. Its not really a viable option.

Starting a project from scratch in partnership with China or Russia.

neither of these countries is planning on fielding VTOL aircraft, preferring to instead field carrier takeoff and arrested landing aircrafts, VTOL is notoriously tricky, and something like this would take would take many years to bring to operation, and then there is no telling as to how this will go as none of those countries has experience in fielding VTOL aircraft in an operational setting. this also doesnt take into account the tensions this will cause with NATO members, even if it ever came to fruition, which is very unlikely..

To agree with the USA on F-35B.

This seems like the most logical solution, and one the Turkish navy had in mind, but this is the same problem as the F-35A with Turkey, as there are disputes over the s-400. Turkey would need to remedy that before any of those things can be realized..

Outside of the F-35B option, really the only other viable option for Naval air support is a navalized version of the ATAK helicopter..

 

[TheMightyBender]

the harrier supply lines are shut and the US owns all the spare parts supply, it was the main reason as to why the British harriers were purchased, to cannabalize them for parts. The Italian harriers are at the end of their service life, keeping them running would be prohibitively expensive and would require parts from the US. Its not really a viable option.



neither of these countries is planning on fielding VTOL aircraft, preferring to instead field carrier takeoff and arrested landing aircrafts, VTOL is notoriously tricky, and something like this would take would take many years to bring to operation, and then there is no telling as to how this will go as none of those countries has experience in fielding VTOL aircraft in an operational setting. this also doesnt take into account the tensions this will cause with NATO members, even if it ever came to fruition, which is very unlikely..



This seems like the most logical solution, and one the Turkish navy had in mind, but this is the same problem as the F-35A with Turkey, as there are disputes over the s-400. Turkey would need to remedy that before any of those things can be realized..

Outside of the F-35B option, really the only other viable option for Naval air support is a navalized version of the ATAK helicopter..

I agree with your first two points. But having naval atak in an offensive ship is not a viable option for air support. This ship will not operate in Turkey or its immediate neighborhood where we have air superiority, it will operate oversees in hostile territory and airspace.

I am not saying such a role (Landing Helicopter Dock, LHD) would be completely useless. LHD are mostly useful in archipelagos where you have lots of maritime territory and islands to cover but no proper islands to build air bases on. They are also much more capable when they are accompanied by a proper aircraft carrier with fighters that can establish air superiority.

Finally, I have thought about this problem a lot and to me it seems that, counterintuitively, the easiest way for Turkey to get shipborne air power is to build an actual full scale aircraft carrier. In my book the F-35s are gone now, that ship has sailed. We have to accept that and move on.

 

[KapitaanAli]

Consider attaching a ramp to your ship.

 

[Bogeyman]

A full-fledged fleet is required to maintain field control over enemy airspace. We're talking at least 40-50 planes here. These include early warning planes, electronic warfare planes, etc. It is not included. It is impossible for us to deploy such a fleet on a helicopter ship.

 

[hyperman]

I agree with your first two points. But having naval atak in an offensive ship is not a viable option for air support. This ship will not operate in Turkey or its immediate neighborhood where we have air superiority, it will operate oversees in hostile territory and airspace.

well the ship as its being built by the Turkish navy isnt something build for blue water efforts, in fact its primary role is for amphibious assault, the ramp it has is only there to give turkey more options in the future, should it choose to deploy a STOVL aircraft.. its primary purpose is amphibious assault, which is seems it will be doing with a navalized ATAK. If Turkey is trying to build ships to carry aircraft for longer range efforts, and work as a blue water navy, it requires a complete shift in naval doctrine, and brand new ships.

In my book the F-35s are gone now, that ship has sailed. We have to accept that and move on.

this doesnt necessarily have to be true, I think time will tell. and we will have to see how things develop in the next 5 years.. when the whole Syria situation is over, and perhaps the dynamics of the russia turkey relationship change, and perhaps it opens doors realigning interests with the US on issues.

 

[Tsenal]

BAE job postings to work on TF-X

https://baesystems.taleo.net/careersection/2/jobsearch.ftl?f=null&LOCATION=254205020436