Tejas is superior than JF-17 - Parrikar

[Windjammer]

How bar of JF-17 is getting lowered vis a vis LCA ? And which capabilities of LCA has surpassed JF-17. I'm dying to hear.

Every time Tejas gets delayed, it's bar is raised since according to Indian logic, the delay was due to incorporating new technology into it.......it's a different matter, Tejas has been blowing hot and cold for almost three decades, by which time, most aircraft are near the end of their service life.

 

[Bratva]

I'm not going to turn this into yet another LCA vs Thunder thread but needless to say the LCA surpasses the Thunder in a number of areas- avionics, weapons, construction, onboard systems (IFR probe, OBOGS etc) as well as by inherent design philosophy.

I'm just going to show you simple things and then tell me weather Avionics suit of LCA can handle all this or not. And this is all Block-1

BVR+AntiShip Missile + HOBS WVR

Dual Rack capability of JF-17 demonstrated

New Electronic Warfare Pod Unveiled last year with JF-17. Next evolution of KG-300 G






JF-17 Block 1 with Chinese And Brazil Anti Radiation Missiles CM102 and MAR-1 And with Airborne Dispenser GB-6 as well cluster munitions

How the fcuk JF-17 avionics has become inferior to LCA when JF-17 avionics can handle all this shyte ?

How the Hell LCA wepaons suit has surpassed JF-17 ?

Also, JF-17 is flying with the Spanish Electronic warfare Suit Indra and RWR which is found on A-400 Aircraft.

JF-17 Is flying with 28 degree of AoA and Block 1 has 8G cap


Remind me what is LCA AoA and How come its EW suit is superior than the Spanish one ?

And last but not the least. Does Construction has any influence on JF-17 capabilities. Please do tell us by seeing latest JF-17 flying videos in Recent airshows.

Making sweeping and ignorant statements is one thing, while backing up them with facts and figures is another.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Every time Tejas gets delayed, it's bar is raised since according to Indian logic, the delay was due to incorporating new technology into it.......it's a different matter,

This is not an opinion but a categorical FACT. The current delay is due to issues in production of the new quartz crystal radome and delivery of the integrated, hydraulically actuated, IFR probe. These are two critical requirements the IAF has stipulated as part of attaining FOC and being formally inducted into service.

Now, the IAF could have gone ahead and accepted a sub-standard product that did not meet their requirements (as the PAF has done- note no HMDS or IFR probe exists on any JF-17 in service to date but will come on the very first LCA inducted into IAF service for they are part of the production standard)

 

[Windjammer]

Sad to see you troll..

Why are you surprised, the nit pick will even troll on your typos but when he blunders it's a genuine mistake.

 

[RealNapster]

JF itself is an insult..

an insult which can "FLY" indeed.

infect, this insulting platform "inshallah" will have the capabilities in future to "INSULT" you guys... As we all know well ,that every platform need time for improvement. F-16 took 48 years.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I'm just going to show you simple things and then tell me weather Avionics suit of LCA can handle all this or not. And this is all Block-1

BVR+AntiShip Missile + HOBS WVR

Dual Rack capability of JF-17 demonstrated

New Electronic Warfare Pod Unveiled last year with JF-17. Next evolution of KG-300 G






JF-17 Block 1 with Chinese And Brazil Anti Radiation Missiles. And with Airborne Dispenser as well clusture munitions

How the fcuk JF-17 avionics has become inferior to LCA when JF-17 avionics can handle all this shyte ?

Also, JF-17 is flying with the Spanish Electronic warfare Suit Indra and RWR which is found A-400 Aircraft.

JF-17 Is flying with 28 degree of AoA..


Remind me How LCA AoA and How come its EW suit is superior than the Spanish one ?

As you are in a sharing mood, care to show me pictures of the Thunder with an integrated LOAL BVRAAM? Or how about an integrated (retractable) IFR probe? HMDS?


What do your pictures show exactly? Weapons are pretty easy to integrate into modern aircraft with open architecture these days. The hard work (integrating other contemporary systems) seems to have been ignored by Thunder's designers.


Or could you provide me sources that point out the Thunder has a Quadruplex FBW FCS with an unstable airframe?

Or how about the extensive use of carbon composite material in the Thunder's airframe that is the pinnacle of airframe fabrication in this current day and age?

And last but not the least. Does Construction has any influence on JF-17 capabilities

Of course it does, is this a serious question? I don't mean to be flippant but I am pretty surprised to see this question being posed by a "think tank".

 

[Windjammer]

This is not an opinion but a categorical FACT. The current delay is due to issues in production of the new quartz crystal radome and delivery of the integrated, hydraulically actuated, IFR probe. These are two critical requirements the IAF has stipulated as part of attaining FOC and being formally inducted into service.

Now, the IAF could have gone ahead and accepted a sub-standard product that did not meet their requirements (as the PAF has done- note no HMDS or IFR probe exists on any JF-17 in service to date but will come on the very first LCA inducted into IAF service for they are part of the production standard)

I admire how you are defending your own and at the same time taking cheap shots on others. ....blind patriotism may earn you some brownies but it's never constructive.....on the contrary, i don't even need to take a dig at your little pride.

Exclusive - Modi pushes obsolete made-in-India plane on reluctant military| Reuters

 

[بلندر]

you decide which is better

TO MOST neutrals theres nothing in it

IMO , the one that is an operational fighter ... so JF 17 is better ....

although , I don't like any single engine fighter ...

 

[Abingdonboy]

I admire how you are defending your own and at the same time taking cheap shots on others. ....blind patriotism may earn you some brownies but it's never constructive.....on the contrary, i don't even need to take a dig at your little pride.

Exclusive - Modi pushes obsolete made-in-India plane on reluctant military| Reuters

The USAF talked down the F-15 and F-16 so as to try and push the political decision makers to induct greater numbers of F-22s- this is no different. The IAF is doing all they can to get their envisaged fleet of top of the line Rafales. There is little substance to these claims.

Militaries, humans,pilots etc are the same all over the world- bigger is always better.

 

[Bratva]

As you are in a sharing mood, care to show me pictures of the Thunder with an integrated LOAL BVRAAM? Or how about an integrated (retractable) IFR probe? HMDS?


What do your pictures show exactly? Weapons are pretty easy to integrate into modern aircraft with open architecture these days. The hard work (integrating other contemporary systems) seems to have been ignored by Thunder's designers.


Or could you provide me sources that point out the Thunder has a Quadruplex FBW FCS with an unstable airframe?

Or how about the extensive use of carbon composite material in the Thunder's airframe that is the pinnacle of airframe fabrication in this current day and age?

Why would JF-17 would need a retractable IFR probe? JF-17 would start getting its fixed IFR probe from next year because they are in the process of integrating them in Block 2 and Block 1 simultaneously

2. You pretty conviently ignored my question. How does JF-17 avionics are inferior to LCA ? JF-17 has been integrated with Spanish EW and Brazilian MAR-1 ARM. We are in the process of getting other contemporary systems. Another thing is Thunder is half chinese. How come European vendors would share LOAL BVRAAM with JF-17 ? But no worries. I will point you to this thread. Chinese solution in working

Next-Gen Chinese AAM for JF-17 Block III


3. No HMDS has been integrated and it is deferred to Block III because Pakistan has only two options for True HOBS missile. Brazilian A-Darter which would only be available to export customers in 2018 and the chinese one which would become available in 2018-2019. So what is point of HMDS when there is no true HOBS missile to be mated with HMDS ? Logic 101

4. Why would JF-17 needs a quadraplex FBW FCS when it is a stable design ? while Delta design s are unstable and to achieve a similar performance as that of stable designs they require more complex FCS to control its movememnt. Common Sense 101. because Tejas is still trying to achieve a 26 degree AoA while JF-17 is alread achieved an AoA of 28 degrees


5. This is one place where JF-17 lacks. But answer me one thing does lack of carbon composites has affected JF-17 maneuverability in any case judging you have seen latest JF-17 solo performances ?

 

[Bratva]

This is not an opinion but a categorical FACT. The current delay is due to issues in production of the new quartz crystal radome and delivery of the integrated, hydraulically actuated, IFR probe. These are two critical requirements the IAF has stipulated as part of attaining FOC and being formally inducted into service.

Now, the IAF could have gone ahead and accepted a sub-standard product that did not meet their requirements (as the PAF has done- note no HMDS or IFR probe exists on any JF-17 in service to date but will come on the very first LCA inducted into IAF service for they are part of the production standard)

So you have failed to mention cone issue was because your previous cone was degrading radar performance. Quartz crystal as nothing to do with super duper light material or performance enhancer drug

I have already explained why PAF hasnt integrated HMDS. For IFR probe, it was deffered because PAF face sever funding issues from 2010-2013 and many projects got delayed.

Nothing to do with the capability.

Any more excuses you got ?

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@Bratva @Windjammer

JF 17 has a lower TW ratio

The Engine is weaker than LCA

No composites

No FULL FBW

No HOBS + HMDS

LCA radar is better than JF 17 Radar ie KLJ 7

Now with AESA radar ( coming up in TWO years ) ; EW suite and ELTA pods and Derby missiles LCA is definitely going to WIN against JF 17

It can even win with the current radar

 

[Bratva]

@Bratva @Windjammer

JF 17 has a lower TW ratio

The Engine is weaker than LCA

No composites

No FULL FBW

No HOBS + HMDS

LCA radar is better than JF 17 Radar ie KLJ 7

Now with AESA radar ( coming up in TWO years ) ; EW suite and ELTA pods and Derby missiles LCA is definitely going to WIN against JF 17

It can even win with the current radar

Stepehen cohen read my above post for IFR HMDS and HOBS.

With the current RD-93. JF-17 has a T:W ratio of 1.05 ( or 1.06). Source Recent JF-17 team disclosed this in Paris air show 2015

and One more hilarious thing comes in to play... Please tell us oh wise one How KLJ version 2 radar of JF-17 which can fire SD-10 A and Anti ship missiles is inferior to LCA radar ?

And JF-17 would start getting AESA radar from Block III JF-17 is in the process of being mated with KG-600 EW pod and in the future would get PL-15 BVRAAM of 150 KM range and JF-17 would get all this in next 3-4 years. While your LCA would get these things in 2022 at best. So your point being ?

I will ask you the same question I asked abond something. How lack of composites affected JF-17 maneuverability Vis a Vis LCA ? have you seen JF-17 Paris airshow performances ?

 

[Stephen Cohen]

will ask you the same question I asked abond something. How lack of composites affected JF-17 maneuverability Vis a Vis LCA ? have you seen JF-17 Paris airshow performances ?

Air show performances are always with a CLEAN configuration

With Levcons added to LCA ; the ITR and STR has improved a lot and
hence we are inducting it

You must understand the RECENT Flurry of activities regarding the LCA

We have been IMPROVING it with the FIRM GOAL of bettering the the JF 17
Now that we are CERTAIN that LCA has become BETTER than JF 17
our Defence Minister has said that LOUDLY

And we are proceeding with the INDUCTION

 

[Bratva]

Air show performances are always with a CLEAN configuration

With Levcons added to LCA ; the ITR and STR has improved a lot and
hence we are inducting it

You must understand the RECENT Flurry of activities regarding the LCA

We have been IMPROVING it with the FIRM GOAL of bettering the the JF 17
Now that we are CERTAIN that LCA has become BETTER than JF 17
our Defence Minister has said that LOUDLY

And we are proceeding with the INDUCTION

I dont want emotional rehtorics. KLJ V2 has a range of 130-140 KM against 5 m2 targets. It can fire AAM AGM. Air to Sea. Anti radiation missiles. It has Dual rack. It has a spanish EW suit.

Come up with something like this to best JF-17 or else just dont quote me again and again with same rubbish LCA is better can JF-17 because I said so.