Sectarianism in Pakistan military: Fact or Fiction

[Sipahi]

The Battle of Yamamah was fought during Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA) reign.

On the orders of Khalid, the Muslim army again
swept forward with cries of Allah-o-Akbar and the war cry of this battle: "Ya Muhammad!" The smaller army again engaged the superior massed forces of the apostates.


web.archive.org/web/20041102235827/http://www.swordofallah.com/html/bookchapter16page5.htm#2

@zaravan @karakoram

 

[TankMan]

Oh please dear...... half of your dead terrorist are named "Muhammad"......... in fact 80% of your male population carries their first names as "Muhammad"........... do you really think that all of them are Jannat-bound?

That is absolutely irrelevant to my argument. If dead terrorists are called Muhammad, you wouldn't start mocking the name now would you? It's about the name. You can say whatever you want to the man called Abdul Wahab, but saying things like ''al Wahaab tera baap'' is wrong since you've mocked the name instead of the person.

Nothing in this world is beyond reasonable criticism,

Religious people would disagree and be offended if you said things like that to God.

and by the way I've clarified my post so that 'rest' of population can understand the irony and sarcasm!

There was nothing special about the irony or sarcasm in there - its extremely obvious that you were mocking Zia ul Haq and not saying that he actually considered Abdul Wahaab his father, we get that. My objection is regarding the abuse of the name, 'Al Wahaab', which is one of God's names/attributes and should not be insulted like that.

Insult the person, if you really want to (even though that is discouraged), but not his name.

 

[Sipahi]

The Battle of Yamamah was fought during Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA) reign.

On the orders of Khalid, the Muslim army again
swept forward with cries of Allah-o-Akbar and the war cry of this battle: "Ya Muhammad!" The smaller army again engaged the superior massed forces of the apostates.


web.archive.org/web/20041102235827/http://www.swordofallah.com/html/bookchapter16page5.htm#2

@zaravan @karakoram

 

[Indus Falcon]

I could tell you how a sepoy and hawaldar, went on firing from their post straight through for more than 24 hours, without food, water or ammo. Or other things I witnessed or was involved in, but then 90% of pdf would call me a lunatic and the other 10% would ban me.

Note: Pls ignore the ramblings of an old fool

 

[Hyperion]

Alrighty then..... how do you want me to mock the person named Abdul?

Answer: "Abdul-whose-name-can't-be-spoken"?

Zia destroyed the ethnic fabric of Pakistan making small and subtle changes to curriculum and certain topics (under discussion now) at the behest of whom? Chacha g?

I can and will say whatever I want to that infidel for his sins!

That is absolutely irrelevant to my argument. If dead terrorists are called Muhammad, you wouldn't start mocking the name now would you? It's about the name. You can say whatever you want to the man called Abdul Wahab, but saying things like ''al Wahaab tera baap'' is wrong since you've mocked the name instead of the person.

Religious people would disagree and be offended if you said things like that to God.

There was nothing special about the irony or sarcasm in there - its extremely obvious that you were mocking Zia ul Haq and not saying that he actually considered Abdul Wahaab his father, we get that. My objection is regarding the abuse of the name, 'Al Wahaab', which is one of God's names/attributes and should not be insulted like that.

Insult the person, if you really want to (even though that is discouraged), but not his name.

 

[TankMan]

This discussion is a microcosm of the failure of most Islamic states/societies across the globe, especially Pakistan - yeah, lets just keep focusing on trivial BS like 'whose name to use in a battle cry, depicting sahaba in images, Allah-hafiz vs Khuda hafiz' blah blah blah ...

If the CIA/RAW/Mossad ever actually did any kind of 'brainwashing of Muslims' then it's represented by the kind of idiotic and regressive thinking and arguments along these lines that we see all the time.

Now, could someone tell me whether using my left hand to type on my keyboard is 'Harrraaam' since I also use it to wipe my arse ...

For some people it's their job to argue over petty things like that, they'd be out of a job and out of money+support if they stopped arguing. Behold, the Political Mullah™.

The argument would be fine if it was restricted to a difference of opinion between the scholars, but when they declare something 'Haram' or declare the followers of opposing scholars as 'Kafir', that's extremely destructive.

At this point they're just looking for things to argue over so that they can take jabs at their political opponents.

Alrighty then..... how do you want me to mock the person named Abdul?

Answer: "Abdul-whose-name-can't-be-spoken"?

Zia destroyed the ethnic fabric of Pakistan making small and subtle changes to curriculum and certain topics (under discussion now) at the behest of whom? Chacha g?

I can and will say whatever I want to that infidel for his sins!

Call him Abdul Wahab. Simple.

What Zia did was his own choice and he should be blamed for it. Blaming the Arabs or some guy who died two hundred years ago is just as good as blaming Mossad or the CIA.

It's funny how you called him an infidel. That's takfir, and takfir is why people criticize and hate the 'Wahabis'. It's pointless to criticize someone for something if you're just going to do the same thing.

 

[SipahSalar]

Only one question do you have any credible source to back this claim ..... rather then Some people says .....

Oh, the fact that it was changed is not in debate bro. It is not a hidden secret or anything, ask anyone from SSG.

 

[Hyperion]

These petty things have you in such a pickle, my friend.......... have you seen mosques and people in it blown to smithereens at the hands of Deobandi terrorists, for petty thing such as the person praying did not have his hands closed over his belly button, or way too above belly button?

Need more example of petty things which have resulted in unacceptable loss of precious life?

@Irfan Baloch

For some people it's their job to argue over petty things like that

 

[SipahSalar]

@SipahSalar you don't say salaam to the Holy Prophet (S.A) at the end of namaz, it's Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah and the general consensus is that it's addressed to the Angels, or, in the case of jamaat, to the Muslims praying around you. Unless you mean something else and the confusion is regarding terminology.

I am not talking about the salam at the end of namaz.
Recall "Atta hayatulliahi wassala watu wat tayabatu, assalamo alayka ayu un nabio...." Unfortunately not many muslims know the translation of namaz in urdu, although in my personal opinion it is necessary.

 

[TankMan]

These petty things have you in such a pickle, my friend.......... have you seen mosques and people in it blown to smithereens at the hands of Deobandi terrorists, for petty thing such as the person praying did not have his hands closed over his belly button, or way too above belly button?

Need more example of petty things which have resulted in unacceptable loss of precious life?

@Irfan Baloch

No doubt they have us in a ''pickle''.

@AgNoStiC MuSliM was talking about things like ''Khuda-hafiz vs Allah-hafiz'' and using the left hand to do things other than wash being Haram. The things are petty. The response to them is destructive. I said that explicitly in my previous post.

Should I use abusive language against Deobandis to make you happy?

 

[Hyperion]

Dude, people have shot each other over "Allah Hafiz" and "Khudda Hafiz"....... what are you talking about? These are sad facts about our society......... for you and me, these things mean nothing, however, for the indoctrinated-simple-minds, these things mean the difference between a Muslim and a Kafir........ welcome to Pakistan 786.02!

@AgNoStiC MuSliM was talking about things like ''Khuda-hafiz vs Allah-hafiz'' and using the left hand to do things other than wash being Haram. The things are petty. The response to them is destructive. I said that explicitly.

Should I use abusive language against Deobandis to make you happy?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The Battle of Yamamah was fought during Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA) reign.

On the orders of Khalid, the Muslim army again
swept forward with cries of Allah-o-Akbar and the war cry of this battle: "Ya Muhammad!" The smaller army again engaged the superior massed forces of the apostates.


web.archive.org/web/20041102235827/http://www.swordofallah.com/html/bookchapter16page5.htm#2

@zaravan @karakoram

Is this a thread on Islamic history? What possible relevance to the SSG does this have?

I say the SSG motto should be, 'Party like it's the last day on earth, train till you drop dead and fight like the devil'

 

[SipahSalar]

Respect does not mean letting go one's stand. Khalid Bin Waleed was a good General of his time but that is it. We follow the religion that Mohammed brought to us and not things that might have been practiced by someone. I would rather seek guidance from Ali (RA) when he went on conquering the fortress at Khayber and whether he sought help from Allah or chanted 'Ya Mohammed'.

Do you think Ya Ali and Ya Ali Madad are one and the same? If yes, then of course asking Ali for help is wrong, for who can help us if Allah decides to not help us?
But Ya Ali has more to do with recalling islamic tradition and history and raising the morale. It reminds muslims that be like Ali. After conquest of Mecca, a small battle was fought and during it muslims started retreating and dispersing, during it Prophet started shouting " I am Muhammad, Son of Abdullah!" Does it mean he is asking his father for help (astahgfirullah)? Even though according to prophets own saying in sahih hadith, his father is in hell. It's nothing but about having pride in ones history and reminding ourselves about where we come from.

 

[TankMan]

I am not talking about the salam at the end of namaz.
Recall "Atta hayatulliahi wassala watu wat tayabatu, assalamo alayka ayu un nabio...." Unfortunately not many muslims know the translation of namaz in urdu, although in my personal opinion it is necessary.

That is not Tasleem, Tasleem is the two salams at the end of the prayer. Yes, parts of Attahyaat and Darud Sharif are dedicated to the Holy Prophet.

I agree that knowing what you recite in namaz is necessary. It's practically pointless if you don't know what you say, because that means you are merely repeating what others told you to and namaz/ibaadat should come from the heart, not just repetition.

 

[Zarvan]

The Battle of Yamamah was fought during Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA) reign.

On the orders of Khalid, the Muslim army again
swept forward with cries of Allah-o-Akbar and the war cry of this battle: "Ya Muhammad!" The smaller army again engaged the superior massed forces of the apostates.


web.archive.org/web/20041102235827/http://www.swordofallah.com/html/bookchapter16page5.htm#2

@zaravan @karakoram

Its not authentic specially under Hazrat Abu Bakar RA no possibility