Sectarianism in Pakistan military: Fact or Fiction

[Indus Falcon]

I respect your thoughts, but if 11 Muftis of Saudi Arabia is approving it. Their names are on display before drama start ...

It happend When Khalid (RA) was sent by Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA) for Ridda Wars.(

11 Muftis or 11,000 muftis = nothing. If they are wrong, they are wrong.

"YA" in Arabic is meant to address someone living, existing, omnipresent. Of which there is only one. The Haiyul Qayum. The ever living, The everlasting, Allah the Almighty.

 

[Zarvan]

These petty things have you in such a pickle, my friend.......... have you seen mosques and people in it blown to smithereens at the hands of Deobandi terrorists, for petty thing such as the person praying did not have his hands closed over his belly button, or way too above belly button?

Need more example of petty things which have resulted in unacceptable loss of precious life?

@Irfan Baloch

Mr Deoband follow fiqah e Hanafi they put their hands under belly just like Barelvis in Pakistan for GOD sake

 

[TankMan]

Dude, people have shot each other over "Allah Hafiz" and "Khudda Hafiz"....... what are you talking about? These are sad facts about our society......... for you and me, these things mean nothing, however, for the indoctrinated-simple-minds, these things mean the difference between a Muslim and a Kafir........ welcome to Pakistan 786.02!

Dude, people have shot each other over "Allah Hafiz" and "Khudda Hafiz"....... what are you talking about?

What part of ''the response to them is destructive'' did you not understand? I said everything you are saying in my post #66.

I'll quote it since it appears you haven't read it and are assuming I am somehow disagreeing with you.

For some people it's their job to argue over petty things like that, they'd be out of a job and out of money+support if they stopped arguing. Behold, the Political Mullah™.

The argument would be fine if it was restricted to a difference of opinion between the scholars, but when they declare something 'Haram' or declare the followers of opposing scholars as 'Kafir', that's extremely destructive.

At this point they're just looking for things to argue over so that they can take jabs at their political opponents.

 

[Hyperion]

Excellent...... my point exactly............. @TankMan, you need to bait more such people? Contact me!

Mr Deoband follow fiqah e Hanafi they put their hands under belly just like Barelvis in Pakistan for GOD sake

 

[Sipahi]

11 Muftis or 11,000 muftis = nothing. If they are wrong, they are wrong.

"YA" in Arabic is meant to address someone living, existing, omnipresent. Of which there is only one. The Haiyul Qayum. The ever living, The everlasting, Allah the Almighty.

Last page pr 1 link share kiya hai woh parh lein pehle ... Warna sahaba ki takfir kr bethain gey aap

 

[TankMan]

Excellent...... my point exactly............. @TankMan, you need to bait more such people? Contact me!

For once, @Zarvan is actually right - Deobandis hold their hands in the same place as Barelvis. That's a fact.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

For some people it's their job to argue over petty things like that, they'd be out of a job and out of money+support if they stopped arguing. Behold, the Political Mullah™.

The argument would be fine if it was restricted to a difference of opinion between the scholars, but when they declare something 'Haram' or declare the followers of opposing scholars as 'Kafir', that's extremely destructive.

At this point they're just looking for things to argue over so that they can take jabs at their political opponents.

I get that, and it would be acceptable to a degree (much as the ramblings of Christian priests from the pulpit are acceptable and and can be ignored to a degree), but the problem is that such large parts of our populace buy into this BS and wear their 'religion' based on these trivialities on their sleeves.

The problem, as much as many Pakistanis are still not evolved enough to see, is the fact that Pakistan is a theocratic State with discrimination towards the 'other' (the other currently being Hindus, Ahmadis, Christians), and so long as the State's identity is based on the superiority of the majority over the 'other', its populace will (under the influence of the Mullah) keep identifying new 'others' to label as 'harram/apostate/non-Muslim'.

First came the Hindu, then the Ahmadi, then the Shia, then the Barelvi ........

At the end of the day, Pakistan needs to change from being an Islamic State to a State where Islam (and all other faiths/non-faiths) are protected equally.

Mr Deoband follow fiqah e Hanafi they put their hands under belly just like Barelvis in Pakistan for GOD sake

I couldn't tell, was that sarcasm or were you really trying to distinguish 'sects' based on a difference of a few inches in the location of the hands during prayer?

I mean the focus of Muslims on such stupid things has gotten to the point where I'll believe any of this crap.

 

[Hyperion]

Say it..... say it....... say the haram word........ 'secular'!

At the end of the day, Pakistan needs to change from being an Islamic State to a State where Islam (and all other faiths/non-faiths) are protected equally.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Say it..... say it....... say the haram word........ 'secular'!

hahah ... well, you know there's all this research on how certain words just take on a negative connotation in popular conscience, not because of what they actually mean, but because of how they have been used by various entities to further their ideological agendas.

So now one has to use a sentence or more to explain the same idea a single word would have accomplished.

 

[Indus Falcon]

Last page pr 1 link share kiya hai woh parh lein pehle ... Warna sahaba ki takfir kr bethain gey aap

Brother I appreciate your sentiments and may the Almighty Guide me and you both.

The love and respect you have is evident, and I respect that, but you must understand something: Should Allah Almighty forsake a person, (God forbid) no one can help him. And should Allah Almighty bless a person, no being can stop that either.

So why call out to the creation, and NOT the creator?

 

[Hyperion]

Mate, you need to post more, whenever you've time!

hahah ... well, you know there's all this research on how certain words just take on a negative connotation in popular conscience, not because of what they actually mean, but because of how they have been used by various entities to further their ideological agendas.

So now one has to use a sentence or more to explain the same idea a single word would have accomplished.

 

[TankMan]

I get that, and it would be acceptable to a degree (much as the ramblings of Christian priests from the pulpit are acceptable and and can be ignored to a degree), but the problem is that such large parts of our populace buy into this BS and wear their 'religion' based on these trivialities on their sleeves.

The problem, as much as many Pakistanis are still not evolved enough to see, is the fact that Pakistan is a theocratic State with discrimination towards the 'other' (the other currently being Hindus, Ahmadis, Christians), and so long as the State's identity is based on the superiority of the majority over the 'other', its populace will (under the influence of the Mullah) keep identifying new 'others' to label as 'harram/apostate/non-Muslim'.

First came the Hindu, then the Ahmadi, then the Shia, then the Barelvi ........

At the end of the day, Pakistan needs to change from being an Islamic State to a State where Islam (and all other faiths/non-faiths) are protected equally.

I get that, and it would be acceptable to a degree (much as the ramblings of Christian priests from the pulpit are acceptable and and can be ignored to a degree), but the problem is that such large parts of our populace buy into this BS and wear their 'religion' based on these trivialities on their sleeves.

People need to learn to accept differences of opinion without fighting or dividing themselves over it. That's the main issue we suffer from. Every little thing becomes a reason to form a sect and condemn others. The political mullahs create the sparks, people provide the fuel, and at the end we get a murderous fire.

The problem, as much as many Pakistanis are still not evolved enough to see, is the fact that Pakistan is a theocratic State with discrimination towards the 'other' (the other currently being Hindus, Ahmadis, Christians), and so long as the State's identity is based on the superiority of the majority over the 'other', its populace will (under the influence of the Mullah) keep identifying new 'others' to label as 'harram/apostate/non-Muslim'.
First came the Hindu, then the Ahmadi, then the Shia, then the Barelvi ........

At the end of the day, Pakistan needs to change from being an Islamic State to a State where Islam (and all other faiths/non-faiths) are protected equally.

I would disagree here. Pakistan's majority is Muslim and Democracy dictates that they can rule their nation based on religion if they want to. The point about the majority having more power than minorities is a flaw with Democracy, not just Pakistan.

All we need is to restrict hate speech, prevent incitement, and eventually change mindsets to prevent violence. Using Islam to achieve the last part would be extremely effective since Islam has very many uniting and tolerant aspects and can be used to rally people. It will also appeal to the population - unlike your suggestion which will result in widespread opposition. Abandoning Islam as a 'state ideology' will also give the political Mullahs more support and more ammunition. We just need an alternative to political mullahs, not to Islam.

If people want to think their religion is better than others', or if the majority wants to govern itself based on their religion, we can't do anything about it. The State can only ensure there is no violence over it, which it should.

 

[S.U.R.B.]

Making an issue out of nothing, are we not?

Start at @00:47.
Sounds just fine,as good as it can get.

 

[Sipahi]

Brother I appreciate your sentiments and may the Almighty Guide me and you both.

The love and respect you have is evident, and I respect that, but you must understand something: Should Allah Almighty forsake a person, (God forbid) no one can help him. And should Allah Almighty bless a person, no being can stop that either.

So why call out to the creation, and NOT the creator?

We were talking about War Cries. And I hope I have clear my point.

You are the follower of other school of thought and I only respect it.

 

[haviZsultan]

Neither Ya' Ali nor Ya' Mohammed (PBUH) is right battle cry. We seek help from Allah and only Allah, from whom Mohammed (PBUH) and Ali (RA) themselves used to seek help and assistance.

I sympathize with shias but i agree fully here. There should be a religiously neutral battle cry. No offense to shias intended.

In fact there should also be a battle cry that is neutral to christians and hindus in the pak army.