Sectarianism in Pakistan military: Fact or Fiction

[Shan-e-ibrahim]

Thank your gods that Wahabi-ul-Azeem Zia-ul-Khabees didn't change the battle cry to "Ya Saud Al-Lost Rasul" (Astakhfirullah)

If things keep going as they are, expect the latest battle cry for the Armed Forces to be:

"Al Wahab Hamara Baap"

Saud king is our new peer adn some on china will be future peer, didn't you know..' ya saud' as per the constitution of Pakistan, we need to save arabs from any threat, we will die lekin arabio ko bachayenge. May be our great hukumraan will also add in constitution that we will save china from any threat 'Ya Chin'
Shame on these people!!

 

[Gufi]

@araz I am against this because it will lead to religious debates which are unfounded, have half of the world of argument which should not be done, and it will lead no where I do agree with wht you said but read the tread and you will get my point

 

[shah_123]

Yes, that indeed is my opinion which is based on common sense and logic. Mohammed (PBUH) is/was in no position to help himself let alone anyone else, for he himself was dependent on help from Allah. If that was not true, he did no have to seek Allah's help in the battles of Badr, Auhad, Khandaq etc. His presence alone would have been enough for Muslims to win those battles but it did not happen.

Learn to respect other people's view-point/opinion.

and i just merely pointed that the slogan Ya' Muhammada by Hazrat Khalid bin Walid Ra' is authentic as reported by books on Islamic history -- I have no intentions in going into discussion on this subject .

 

[kaonalpha]

Even some units have this battle cry today its the battle cry of 7 baloch 31S&t as a unit .It doesn't make a difference there was only one major battle cry Change of a single in 2008 after which it became the official battle cry or motto.

Its shame no one asked me that new motto

 

[Indus Falcon]

Its shame no one asked me that new motto

Hazrat app bhi arz kijyae ..................

 

[syedali73]

Learn to respect other people's view-point/opinion.

and i just merely pointed that the slogan Ya' Muhammada by Hazrat Khalid bin Walid Ra' is authentic as reported by books on Islamic history -- I have no intentions in going into discussion on this subject .

Respect does not mean letting go one's stand. Khalid Bin Waleed was a good General of his time but that is it. We follow the religion that Mohammed brought to us and not things that might have been practiced by someone. I would rather seek guidance from Ali (RA) when he went on conquering the fortress at Khayber and whether he sought help from Allah or chanted 'Ya Mohammed'.

 

[Djinn]

one should know that the word ya is only preserved for allah as it means someone who is forever and that is only allah u should rather say ya allah for your battle cry but not ya with some human beingas u also get sin for using word ya with someones name

Exactly one should know the meaning. YA here is used to call upon Ali(ra) as we use in English O. The topic is quite complex and hence can't be concluded according to our subjective understanding. Here is an extract i found some where online, hope it will explain a lil.
"The origins of the Naara are from the battlefield and it is recited in praise of the one on whose hand Allah Taalah granted victory to the Muslims after others had failed. When Hazrat Ali (Alaihi Asalam) once defeated many foes by himself, and the Sahaba’s (Radi Allah Anum Ajma’een) said, Nara e Haideri – Ya Ali (Alaihi Asalam).

Sayidna Ali (Aliahi Asalaam) is known as Haider – Lion

Ya Ali (Aliahi Asalaam) is the reply for Naaray Haideri.

Naaray Haideri is the call for Sayidna Ali (Aliahi Asalaam) since he is Asadullah.

Sayidna Ali (Aliahi Asalaam) is also Mushkil Kusha, thus we say Ya Ali to call upon Sayidna Ali (Aliahi Asalaam) as a waseela (intermediately or intercessor).

Sayidna Ali (Aliahi Asalaam) is Imamul Auliya"

 

[HRK]

Some people say that a battle cry of "Ya Ali" used since inception of the force fell victim to sectarianism prevalent during Zia ul Haq's time. It should have been retained because it had become part of the formation's tradition, and modern armies without rich traditions are no different from a militia.

On the other hand, opponents say that the battle cry of "Ya Ali" itself was sectarian and it was a good idea to change to one that can be used by both sects.

What's your take on this PDF?

Only one question do you have any credible source to back this claim ..... rather then Some people says .....

 

[Hyperion]

Aap ko kiss nay hath-karri lagayi hui hai? Aap bhee apnay deemagh ka juice nikalayin....... bismillah!

Its shame no one asked me that new motto

 

[shah_123]

Respect does not mean letting go one's stand. Khalid Bin Waleed was a good General of his time but that is it. We follow the religion that Mohammed brought to us and not things that might have been practiced by someone. I would rather seek guidance from Ali (RA) when he went on conquering the fortress at Khayber and whether he sought help from Allah or chanted 'Ya Mohammed'.

This ain't a forum for religious discussion otherwise it ain't problem for me to discuss this subject in-depth.
and i like discussing & not debating.

You can hold on to your opinion, nobody is stopping you.

 

[kaonalpha]

Aap ko kiss nay hath-karri lagayi hui hai? Aap bhee apnay deemagh ka juice nikalayin....... bismillah!

Sab Intne andhe heh badge ke neche nara nahi para ja raha heh "Jorat wa Aml" ASC

 

[chauvunist]

Naara e Takbeer "Allah o Akbar"..nothing can beat it...plain and simple

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

This discussion is a microcosm of the failure of most Islamic states/societies across the globe, especially Pakistan - yeah, lets just keep focusing on trivial BS like 'whose name to use in a battle cry, depicting sahaba in images, Allah-hafiz vs Khuda hafiz' blah blah blah ...

If the CIA/RAW/Mossad ever actually did any kind of 'brainwashing of Muslims' then it's represented by the kind of idiotic and regressive thinking and arguments along these lines that we see all the time.

Now, could someone tell me whether using my left hand to type on my keyboard is 'Harrraaam' since I also use it to wipe my arse ...

 

[TankMan]

When in doubt, you can never go wrong with Allah hu Akbar. If they felt 'Ya Ali' was sectarian or might have been wrong from a religious perspective, that's perfectly fine and there's nothing wrong with it. It doesn't matter if Zia ul Haq had anything to do with it.

@SipahSalar you don't say salaam to the Holy Prophet (S.A) at the end of namaz, it's Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah and the general consensus is that it's addressed to the Angels, or, in the case of jamaat, to the Muslims praying around you. Unless you mean something else and the confusion is regarding terminology.

@Hyperion it's insulting to abuse one of God's attributes in that way, even if you're referring to someone you don't like who happens to be named that. You wouldn't say the same about someone named Muhammad, then why do so with al-Wahaab?

 

[Hyperion]

Oh please dear...... half of your dead terrorist are named "Muhammad"......... in fact 80% of your male population carries their first names as "Muhammad"........... do you really think that all of them are Jannat-bound?

Nothing in this world is beyond reasonable criticism, and by the way I've clarified my post so that 'rest' of the 'non-gifted' population can understand the irony and sarcasm!

@Hyperion it's insulting to abuse one of God's attributes in that way, even if you're referring to someone you don't like who happens to be named that. You wouldn't say the same about someone named Muhammad, then why do so with al-Wahaab?

Precisely the reason for my sarcasm.......... I come across such people on a daily basis, who are busy debating such mundane things that they've lost touch with reality...............

Now, could someone tell me whether using my left hand to type on my keyboard is 'Harrraaam' since I also use it to wipe my arse ...