Question for some here

[Su 30mki]

Well its all about interests. I especially like Henry Kissinger's quote on the topic of interests.

Here is a question:
How many times has US abandoned Pakistan

1.) 1965

2.) 1971 the so called help that going to come in the form of 7th fleet but it didn't.But two years later the same nixon sends every almost entire transport fleet loaded with supplies to Israel.

3.) After the fall of soviet union. We take the brunt of millions of afghan refugees for decades.

4.) pressler amendment,thanks to sen pressler. We are paid back in the form of cooking oil for our F-16s.


What will happen if US leaves tomorrow AGAIN.

We have to look at our interests first.

No body likes the Afghan Taliban but they represent the majority Pushtun population. There is no one else representing pushtuns right now. We will have to maintain our relations in one form or another because we can't choose neighbors and no country likes to get encircled by enemies. This is why we don't like indian backed Hamid Karzai.


Please spare us the bull crap on the "Freedom" e.t.c. We all know how your CIA changed governments in many countries whenever it desired. There is a long list of it.



P.S:

That was Abdullah Mehsud. The first thing he did when he came back was to kidnap chinese.

During Kargil China abandoned PAK, so instead to finding fault of other abandoning you, ask yourself why they abandon you.

1) In 1965 , its PAK who started the war. So you supposed US came as fight against India for you? Any way US provided lot of free planes and tanks to you in 1950's and 60's and if those was not their you didn't even dare to start a war. so why blame US for your woos?

2) The Things committed by Army in Bangladesh made US stopped for support.

3) For Those Million of Refuges, PAK getting million of dollars to feed and support them,they didnt made burden financially on you. and what you gave in return to Afganistan? ISI controlled Taliban ?

4) US saved you many time , even after black marketing of nuclear weapons, instead of thanking US you are cursing for saving you.

See what you have done with others instead of finding what other done to you,

US cannot run your country , its you who have run and if you cant run , in that US cant do anything , don't expect US come and do everything for you

 

[Spring Onion]

I think the point whether US helped OSAMA or not is irrelevant, as they have already admitted they had supported mujhadeins. So it doesnt matter if they had helped terrorist A or terrorist B.

I always had thought america as a teenage boy with a big gun in his hand. Ready to fire based on its logic, however funny or stupid it may sound for the grown ups. Minding their own business is a trait of their society but not of their government

But i think they are learning from their mistakes and growing up, and i think we all should support them in Afghanistan, especially after Hilary Clinton bold statement and a good leader ship in Obama who wants to change the status of america as a leader with goodwill and not as a leader by guns. But to prove that they should definitely have a long term plan in Afghanistan and now in IRAQ(which was the result of such teenage decision) and not just bam bam boom boom and get the hell out.

afriend the point of objection is when Yankees come with one-sided statment blaming only Pakistan for all the mess in Afghanistan against Russia.

And US links with Mujahideen and Osama still have alot to do with ongoing Islamic fundamentalism arround the world.

It was the same Osama and same mujahideen nurtured by CIA who later formed other fundamentalist organisation including al-Qaeda and other such orgs which are now spreading terrorism arround the world including my country.

Besides its CIA of US of A which had been backing many Islamic fundamentalist movements in the world using taxpayer money.

Thousands of innocent people have been killed in Iraq and thousands of them have been killed in Afghanistan so it is indeed not teenage decisions by US but US state terrorism.

 

[Su 30mki]

Those who are termed responsible were bred and brought in the US itself too. The Afghan Taliban did asked the US to provide proof and they will look into it if Osama was realy responsible for 9/11 or not and if US proves so, Mullah Omar promised to take action against OBL. But US had attacked Afghanistan and for the last 8 years is killing innocent women and childern there.



oh yeh rememberd. Just a small question Why India negotiated with "terrorists" and released them in that case

And oh what about Indian drama in 71 when India hijacked its own plane to Pakistan to malign us?




Mind you. State of Pakistan and Pakistani government do not support them.
The Views here on this forum are our personal and views of individuals so my dear Indian please do not mislead the world by attributing our views to State of Pakistan. The State of Pakistan is with its ally US rather doing much better than US itself.




The American war on terror has cost Pakistan more than 35 billion dollars.

As far as the aid is concerned more than half of it used for security of US facilities including consulates and embassy besides CIA offices.

They are doing no ehasn on us.





Beautiful, serene and lovely country like Afghanistan is in gallows not because of Pakistan or Taliban But Russia and US and their long term hegmonic policies.


First Russia invaded Afghanistan and now US. It was their game and now its US and Western game which is duely supported by India to get foothold there in Afghanistan.

because India want to save many lives that's why they negotiated, those hijacked and released are PAK citizen's only which caught in Indian land

Oh really, in 1971 drama, German Govt issue a letter stating that the gun used by hijacker was made in Germany and supplied to PAK Army

World knows about PAK, LET founder, Jaish a mohd founder, many founders are from PAK and even UN has proof but the only people dont have proof is PAK govt.

Oh really Billions of dollars are spend of US Personal Security,. really , where is security fort of 8 Billion security located in PAK? you cant even protect supply lines which will cost only thousands of RS forget about billions.

 

[Spring Onion]

because India want to save many lives that's why they negotiated, those hijacked and released are PAK citizen's only which caught in Indian land

Oh really, in 1971 drama, German Govt issue a letter stating that the gun used by hijacker was made in Germany and supplied to PAK Army

World knows about PAK, LET founder, Jaish a mohd founder, many founders are from PAK and even UN has proof but the only people dont have proof is PAK govt.

Oh really Billions of dollars are spend of US Personal Security,. really , where is security fort of 8 Billion security located in PAK? you cant even protect supply lines which will cost only thousands of RS forget about billions.

Oh yeh lolzz same is way when other deals with such elements to save many lives.

Secondly the 71 Indian plane hijacking drama was exposed by the fake hijackers later.


As far as saving NATO supply lines well that is not the responsibility of government of Pakistan because NATO has contracted the project to private companies.

 

[gambit]

Osama was central to CIA policy at that time. If someone denies link of Osama with US and CIA then indeed its more than hypocracy.

That is nothing but a baseless claim by you.

Afghan resistance had many other factors other than OBL. If you are assuming things on your own i can not help it.

It is YOU who have been assuming things on your own. You have no evidences to support your arguments.

And no Osama Bin Laden could not have taken it as point to pride because after US ditched the Afghans and ruined their country to block Russia, Osama turned his back to US. And as CIA uses a code name blowback, Osama indeed is a blowback for CIA.

How did the US 'ruined' Afghanistan when the US never had any military forces in Afghanistan during the Soviet occupation? The word 'blowback' is not a code word but a word intended to denote an unintended consequence.

If Osama accepts his link with US it will indeed ruin his ideology on the basis of which he is now uniting fighters from arround the world against US.


In this interview he denied any aid to Mujahideen from US which is an utter lie.

You really did not think your arguments through, did you? If there was such an operational link and if what you say is true that it would discredit him, then it would be to our benefit to expose such a link, correct? Do you really believe that not one soul in the CIA would remember such a link? We would have records of money transferred, dates and locations of meetings and who were there. I think it is clear by now that this is probably the first time that you have been challenged and effectively debunked about this subject with credible evidence and logic. Thinking readers should no longer take you seriously.

 

[afriend]

afriend the point of objection is when Yankees come with one-sided statment blaming only Pakistan for all the mess in Afghanistan against Russia.

And US links with Mujahideen and Osama still have alot to do with ongoing Islamic fundamentalism arround the world.

It was the same Osama and same mujahideen nurtured by CIA who later formed other fundamentalist organisation including al-Qaeda and other such orgs which are now spreading terrorism arround the world including my country.

Besides its CIA of US of A which had been backing many Islamic fundamentalist movements in the world using taxpayer money.

Thousands of innocent people have been killed in Iraq and thousands of them have been killed in Afghanistan so it is indeed not teenage decisions by US but US state terrorism.

No jana,i dont agree with you at all. You are convinently forgeting your countries role in harboring and nurturing the terrorists. Only because of the americas big gun, some sane people in your establishment decided to join america.

You are equally responsible for taliban as america is. Distancing from them doesnt do any good. I respect america becuase they admitted their mistake. So its high time tat you took ownership of your part and move towards being a responsible nation. I know its hard with majority extremists in your nation. But sis you can make a difference. And i hope Pakistan grows into a country based on principles of humanity and not religion.

 

[S-2]

OBL's calling card to the mujahideen was HIS money.

He had no need of money from others nor could he have successfully raised such without a PRIOR reputation as an irhabi warrior. He had no such reputation. He was a skinny rich boy from KSA who'd never handled a weapon in earnest in his life.

Like thousands of others, he was drawn to the war.

Unlike thousands of others, he was immensely and independantly wealthy.

Just a small but salient point I'd hate to see lost amidst the clutter of dissemblance being tossed forth by the loons.

 

[Spring Onion]

Ben Laden was met in July at the American hospital at Dubaï (press)

Wednesday October 31 2001 - 2h51 GMT

PARIS, Oct. 31 (AFP) - Osama Bin Laden was treated in July at the American hospital in Dubaï where he met a person in charge of the CIA, the French daily newspaper the Barber and Radio International France (RFI) reported on Wednesday.

The two medias quoted " a witness, professional partner of the administrative direction of the hospital ", as confirming that the man that the United States suspects of having financed the attacks of September 11 arrived on July 4 at Dubaï by plane coming from Quetta, in Pakistan.

Osama was immediately transferred to the hospital for a renal processing (Kidney Dialysis). He left the establishment on July 14, adds the Barber.

During this stay, reports the daily newspaper, the local representative of the CIA was seen going in the room of Bin Laden.

" A few days later, the CIA man bragged in front of some friends that he had visited the billionaire saudi ".

According to the Barber and RFI who quote a " authorized source ", the representative of the CIA was recalled to Washington on July 15.

Bin Laden is sought by the United States for terrorism since the attacks against the American embassies of Kenya and Tanzania in 1998. But Osama's links with the CIA are older and go up back to the time where Bin Laden took part in the combat in Afghanistan against the Soviet forces.

According to the Barber, Bin Laden was accompanied in Dubaï by his personal doctor and faithful lieutenant, tentatively identified as the Egyptian Ayman Al-Zawahari, by bodyguards, and an Algerian male nurse.
Osama was treated by urologist Doctor Terry Callaway, a specialist in the renal calculi (kidney problems) and male infertility. Contacted by telephone on several occasions, the doctor did not wish to answer questions.

Several sources had already given a report on a serious renal infection of Bin Laden, who has installed a mobil dialysis machine in his Afghan den of Kandahar during first six-month period 2000, according to " authorized sources' " quoted by the French daily newspaper and RFI.

 

[Spring Onion]

OBL's calling card to the mujahideen was HIS money.

He had no need of money from others nor could he have successfully raised such without a PRIOR reputation as an irhabi warrior. He had no such reputation. He was a skinny rich boy from KSA who'd never handled a weapon in earnest in his life.

Like thousands of others, he was drawn to the war.

Unlike thousands of others, he was immensely and independantly wealthy.

Just a small but salient point I'd hate to see lost amidst the clutter of dissemblance being tossed forth by the loons.

Sir it does not matter if he was a warrior or not. The point is your country had used him in the lead force behind non-Afghan Mujahideen from arround the world against Russia.

Those who differ with your point of view if they are called loons then same can be said for you.

 

[afriend]

Sir it does not matter if he was a warrior or not. The point is your country had used him in the lead force behind non-Afghan Mujahideen from arround the world against Russia.

Those who differ with your point of view if they are called loons then same can be said for you.

So your country had nothing to do with Taliban??????. What was your motivation in supporting this extremists. I wish to hear your view point before i call you a hypocrite.

 

[Zulfiqar]

1) In 1965 , its PAK who started the war. So you supposed US came as fight against India for you? Any way US provided lot of free planes and tanks to you in 1950's and 60's and if those was not their you didn't even dare to start a war. so why blame US for your woos?

Operation was started on a disputed territory. You brought it to Lahore.They had their interests in providing those weapons.Nothing is for free.



2) The Things committed by Army in Bangladesh made US stopped for support.

Oh please stop the BS, RAW supported mukti bahini. You know it very well. Stop acting as if you are an angel. BTW many of those figures are exaggerated anyways. Some of my relatives were axed to death there. Do you think the PA will sit and do nothing about the insurgency there. Granted that our politicians did not give them the proper governing rights but who gave you the right to interfere in our internal matters.

Too bad things did not go in your favor and now Bangladesh is strongly opposed to you.

3) For Those Million of Refuges, PAK getting million of dollars to feed and support them,they didnt made burden financially on you. and what you gave in return to Afganistan? ISI controlled Taliban ?

Go do some research on it. Millions my foot. We know how much aid they gave to us. Zia used the word "peanuts" for this very reason.

4) US saved you many time , even after black marketing of nuclear weapons, instead of thanking US you are cursing for saving you.

They saved us? They imposed sanctions on us. They don't like us and we don't like them.Its all about interests. You guys also supported iraqi nuclear program so stop mr. angel talk.

But Thanks to those sanctions now we have a new defensive policy which has resulted in weapons like JF-17s, Al-Khalids and what not.

Our defense industry would never have been where it is now,had it not been to those sanctions.

 

[gambit]

Sir it does not matter if he was a warrior or not. The point is your country had used him in the lead force behind non-Afghan Mujahideen from arround the world against Russia.

Those who differ with your point of view if they are called loons then same can be said for you.

They are called 'loons' not because their opinions differ but because they have no evidence to support their arguments, just like how you have no evidence to support yours and your arguments are illogical.

 

[gambit]

So your country had nothing to do with Taliban??????. What was your motivation in supporting this extremists. I wish to hear your view point before i call you a hypocrite.

The Taliban was not called so during the time of the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. At that time, Pakistan and India were hostiles to each other. India was a Soviet ally. A Soviet controlled Afghanistan would have Pakistan surrounded with only the sea for access. That would be an unacceptable situation for anyone. Pakistan have no choice but to get involved with the US and the rest of the ME to make Afghanistan as unstable for the Soviets as possible. The clerics provided the religious motivations and justifications for jihad against the Soviets. The region provided the necessary manpower and the funding. The US provided weapons. And Pakistan provided the corporate training for the Afghan resistance. Everyone is guilty for his part when the Taliban came to power and some refused to acknowledge this reality and grossly inflate US role in Afghanistan.

 

[shravan]

Oh please stop the BS, RAW supported mukti bahini. You know it very well. Stop acting as if you are an angel.

Ya RAW supported the entire Movement by brainwashing those people.

Now we are supporting Baluchistan Movement please kill those people.