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A question for pakistanis?

I was reading a news yesterday that in some place in Pakistan a man was killed by a mob by breaking into a police station...yes..a police station.
My question to educated Pakistanis who reside in Pakistan Is : Does all this lawlessness,poverty,corruption,terrorism,economic bankruptcy ,illiteracy and ignorance ,religious fanaticism drive you crazy? Doesn't it push you into deep depression?

I was asking myself this question when I read. that news...What would I do if I were an average pakistani? If I have the means I would leave Pakistan .Yes,personally I wouldn't like to leave my motherland..but what alternative do I have? I can't raise my voice against military...I can't discuss religion with logic...I can't help curb terrorism...there is nothing I could do.A foreign country can never be mine or of my descendants no matter how many years I live there but at least I can escape the depression and helplessness and provide my children a better environment to grow in.
Pakistan is big country 5th largest population live here .and every society have social issues .about terror index pakistan is 10th india is 12th.do you consider leaving india ?

1000s of towns and villages cities of paksitan have never seen a terror attack ever
millions of paksitanis like me have never seen a terrorist or terror attack in their life times
last time i see a dead body 3 years ago
last time a see a murder i think 2009
last time i have seen any of my relative have crime in 1997
now the society i live have never seen murder since its built .
you guys stop watching indian media everything will be fine . if you see indian media you will think as your OP post .



these days we are facing 100pkr expensive chicken meat and 50PKR expencive daals veggies and aata tea etc . all this is what happened so far . rest life is ongoing . people are living their lives as any other country . they go to jos . they sit evening and talk politics . marriages are on . air travel is increasing . roads are full . hotels are booked . tourists are on . nothing special in pakistan going on.
 
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I was reading a news yesterday that in some place in Pakistan a man was killed by a mob by breaking into a police station...yes..a police station.
My question to educated Pakistanis who reside in Pakistan Is : Does all this lawlessness,poverty,corruption,terrorism,economic bankruptcy ,illiteracy and ignorance ,religious fanaticism drive you crazy? Doesn't it push you into deep depression?

I was asking myself this question when I read. that news...What would I do if I were an average pakistani? If I have the means I would leave Pakistan .Yes,personally I wouldn't like to leave my motherland..but what alternative do I have? I can't raise my voice against military...I can't discuss religion with logic...I can't help curb terrorism...there is nothing I could do.A foreign country can never be mine or of my descendants no matter how many years I live there but at least I can escape the depression and helplessness and provide my children a better environment to grow in.
If you think crime is bad in Pakistan then just look at India, one of the most sickening nations on earth:-

CRIME​

Bengal: Body of TMC female worker found with deep cuts on throat

The police found the body of 48-year-old Suchitra Mandal, an active member of the TMC party, in West Bengal's South 24 Parganas. Police said they were also probing a political angle in the case.
TMC female worker's body found in West Bengal

DELHI​

Minor sodomised by 5 boys of his neighbourhood in north Delhi, case registered

A 16-year-old boy was allegedly sodomised by five boys in his neighbourhood in north Delhi. A case has been registered under section 4 of the POCSO Act along with others.
Minor sodomised by 5 boys of his neighbourhood in north Delhi, case registered

CRIME​

Pregnant constable shot by her husband over illicit relationship in Ranchi, injured

A pregnant woman constable was shot by her husband in Ranchi's Jhanjhari panchayat area allegedly for having an extramarital relationship with her husband's brother-in-law. The woman has sustained injuries.
Pregnant constable shot by her husband over illicit relationship in Ranchi, injured

CRIME​

BJP leader shot dead by Naxalites in Chhattisgarh’s Narayanpur

The victim was identified as Narayanpur BJP district vice-president Sagar Sahu. Sahu was killed in his home at around 8 pm on Friday.


CRIME​

Gurugram couple accused of torturing, abusing minor domestic help fired from jobs

The public relations agency for which the woman worked and the insurance company where her husband was employed announced their termination on Twitter.
screenshot_513.png

CRIME​

Class 11 boy stabbed to death by schoolmates in Faridabad, murder case lodged

A Class 11 student on his way home from school in Haryana’s Faridabad was stabbed to death by a group of adolescents, some of whom were allegedly his schoolmates, police said Wednesday.

CRIME​

Catering staffer beaten to death with plastic crate over food in Delhi's Rohini

Police said the victim was beaten up by two men after he failed to come up with food plates for people who were with the DJ during a function.

PUNE​

2 booked for assaulting food stall owner for offering free soup in Pune, absconding

Two absconding men were booked by police officials for assaulting a food-stall owner with a knife in Pune. They had an altercation over the food-stall owner giving free soup along with the cost of lunch.
Knife assault

CRIME​

Minor sedated, gangraped by 6 men in Hyderabad, all accused held

A 16-year-old girl was allegedly confined and gangraped by six men after being given sedatives in Hyderabad on Saturday, February 4.
rape_

PATNA​

Woman among 4 shot dead by chain snatchers in Patna, probe underway

A gang of three armed assailants shot down four people including a woman in Patna's Shastri Nagar during the wee hours of Thursday morning. Police are combing through the CCTV footage in the area to identify and nab the culprits.
murder image

CRIME​

2 toddlers found dead, mother critical after throat slit in Tamil Nadu's Tiruvallur

Panic gripped the residents after two toddlers were found dead with their mouths taped in Tamil Nadu's Tiruvallur on Tuesday.

CRIME​

Gurugram: Minor help tortured by couple has cuts, burns all over body, says activist

A minor girl from Ranchi, hired by a Gurugram couple to care for their daughter, was thrashed using sticks and blades by the couple. The girl has been rescued by the police.


CRIME​

'Ate leftover food from dustbin': Jharkhand minor tortured by Gurugram couple

A couple from New Colony, who work in private companies, allegedly tortured and sexually assaulted a minor girl. The 14-year-old girl was hired by the couple to take care of their child.
minor_girl.jpeg

CRIME​

Man arrested for thrashing, urinating on Assam youth

An Assam youth was thrashed by a man for alleged theft in Hailakandi. Four people have been arrested so far, including the main accused, Nizamuddin.
Nizamuddin

CRIME​

Noida Police arrests 23-year-old woman, parents for killing man blackmailing them

Ranjit sent some obscene pictures and videos of Neha to her family members and started pressurizing them for marriage.

CRIME​

55-yr-old bizman killed after party in UP’s Maharajganj, probe underway

A 55-year-old businessman was killed by unknown men who smashed his head with a brick after a party in Uttar Pradesh's Maharajganj on Monday. Officials are probing the incident and suspect he was murdered by someone known to him.
Police officials at the scene of the crime.

CRIME​

Bajrang Dal worker shot in Rajasthan's Udaipur, dies

A Bajrang Dal worker was shot in the head by two unidentified men in Rajasthan’s Udaipur on Monday.
img-20230206-wa0037_1.jpg

CRIME​

Drunk BSF jawan shoots toddy seller over Rs 80 in Bihar’s Siwan

As per the police, the incident took place when the toddy seller asked the BSF jawan to pay for the toddy that he had consumed.
gun shot

CRIME​

Boy, 16, rapes 58-year-old woman, kills her with sickle in MP's Rewa

The police and forensic team reached the spot and it was found the woman was brutally murdered by an unidentified person.

CRIME​

Delhi Police busts liquor smuggling gang in Narela, 4 arrested

The Delhi Police arrested four members of a liquor smuggling gang on charges of vehicle theft on Sunday.
 
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Switch the paradigm around and ask yourself the same thing about similar incidents in India. And if upper caste brahmins are bothered by things like the perpetrators of the Gujrat Pogroms coming into control of the state, and what they are doing with that psychotic illiterate "Yogi" with no experience in governance being put in charge of the bureaucracy. Its quite distressing seeing for example this new generation of "educated" indians coming to the US and holding sectarian "bulldozer rallies" on indian independence day parades.

There are no doubts that the state is failing in pakistan, the only difference I notice between the places is that the "educated" upper caste brahmin class is the one voting for the BJP which facilitates the RSS and its ideology, and actively supports it. and ironically its the uneducated lower caste dalits who are the ones who are more accommodating towards other minorities in india and not sectarian like the upper caste BJP voters. Pakistan is in a helpless state where there is chaos b/c the state no longer holds a "monopoly on violence", whereas the Indian state is functional and the sectarianism is instead being facilitated by the ones in charge of the state and creating a sectarian atmosphere in the media ownership and in governance.
Upper castes hardly constitute 20 percent of hindu population..bjp would never come to power with out the support of backward castes who are above 50 pc.
 
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I was reading a news yesterday that in some place in Pakistan a man was killed by a mob by breaking into a police station...yes..a police station.
My question to educated Pakistanis who reside in Pakistan Is : Does all this lawlessness,poverty,corruption,terrorism,economic bankruptcy ,illiteracy and ignorance ,religious fanaticism drive you crazy? Doesn't it push you into deep depression?

I was asking myself this question when I read. that news...What would I do if I were an average pakistani? If I have the means I would leave Pakistan .Yes,personally I wouldn't like to leave my motherland..but what alternative do I have? I can't raise my voice against military...I can't discuss religion with logic...I can't help curb terrorism...there is nothing I could do.A foreign country can never be mine or of my descendants no matter how many years I live there but at least I can escape the depression and helplessness and provide my children a better environment to grow in.
Its one time incident.
And in India, many such incidents take place on daily basis. Does it put you in deep depression?
 
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I was reading a news yesterday that in some place in Pakistan a man was killed by a mob by breaking into a police station...yes..a police station.
My question to educated Pakistanis who reside in Pakistan Is : Does all this lawlessness,poverty,corruption,terrorism,economic bankruptcy ,illiteracy and ignorance ,religious fanaticism drive you crazy? Doesn't it push you into deep depression?

I was asking myself this question when I read. that news...What would I do if I were an average pakistani? If I have the means I would leave Pakistan .Yes,personally I wouldn't like to leave my motherland..but what alternative do I have? I can't raise my voice against military...I can't discuss religion with logic...I can't help curb terrorism...there is nothing I could do.A foreign country can never be mine or of my descendants no matter how many years I live there but at least I can escape the depression and helplessness and provide my children a better environment to grow in.


These acts happens because of Ghalatfehmi and not just Blasphemy, used and abused by the clerics/Mullahs.

And people here feel bad about the whole episode and with all the sympathies for the person killed, and they never condone such extreme barbarism, they will never support the perpetrators nor praise them or this will add to political dividend of anyone. And this is a sporadic once a year occurence.


Compare this with India, this can never happen in Pak.



I was reading a news yesterday that in some place in Pakistan a man was killed by a mob by breaking into a police station...yes..a police station.
My question to educated Pakistanis who reside in Pakistan Is : Does all this lawlessness,poverty,corruption,terrorism,economic bankruptcy ,illiteracy and ignorance ,religious fanaticism drive you crazy? Doesn't it push you into deep depression?

I was asking myself this question when I read. that news...What would I do if I were an average pakistani? If I have the means I would leave Pakistan .Yes,personally I wouldn't like to leave my motherland..but what alternative do I have? I can't raise my voice against military...I can't discuss religion with logic...I can't help curb terrorism...there is nothing I could do.A foreign country can never be mine or of my descendants no matter how many years I live there but at least I can escape the depression and helplessness and provide my children a better environment to grow in.


Muslims lynched for dealing in Beef and not just eating it, the only country in the world this barbarism is approved and liked.




 
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I was reading a news yesterday that in some place in Pakistan a man was killed by a mob by breaking into a police station...yes..a police station.
My question to educated Pakistanis who reside in Pakistan Is : Does all this lawlessness,poverty,corruption,terrorism,economic bankruptcy ,illiteracy and ignorance ,religious fanaticism drive you crazy? Doesn't it push you into deep depression?

I was asking myself this question when I read. that news...What would I do if I were an average pakistani? If I have the means I would leave Pakistan .Yes,personally I wouldn't like to leave my motherland..but what alternative do I have? I can't raise my voice against military...I can't discuss religion with logic...I can't help curb terrorism...there is nothing I could do.A foreign country can never be mine or of my descendants no matter how many years I live there but at least I can escape the depression and helplessness and provide my children a better environment to grow in.

It angers me momentarily, but you have to just get on with life. I was born and raised overseas and I'd love to move to Pakistan but I've accepted that its very unlikely to be a place where I can have a good life in my lifetime.

So I have readjusted my goals, I want to help improve Pakistan, so that maybe my children or grandchildren can move back one day. I firmly believe there is no long term acceptance for us Muslims in Europe.

Hopelessness is not for Muslims. Our faith teaches us to have faith in the the power of Allah, to submit to his will - even if we feel its not benefited us, we accept that whatever happens to us is his will and ultimately for our benefit.

So we accept whatever happens and just continue to fight the good fight.
 
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I was reading a news yesterday that in some place in Pakistan a man was killed by a mob by breaking into a police station...yes..a police station.
My question to educated Pakistanis who reside in Pakistan Is : Does all this lawlessness,poverty,corruption,terrorism,economic bankruptcy ,illiteracy and ignorance ,religious fanaticism drive you crazy? Doesn't it push you into deep depression?

I was asking myself this question when I read. that news...What would I do if I were an average pakistani? If I have the means I would leave Pakistan .Yes,personally I wouldn't like to leave my motherland..but what alternative do I have? I can't raise my voice against military...I can't discuss religion with logic...I can't help curb terrorism...there is nothing I could do.A foreign country can never be mine or of my descendants no matter how many years I live there but at least I can escape the depression and helplessness and provide my children a better environment to grow in.

The country's economic and infrastructure problems are shambolic to say the least but if given that we have hit rock bottom, the only way we can go is up.

Pakistan as a state has all the numbers working for it, from having a replaceable growth rate and one of the youngest educated population average.

However the recent quit India movement does not really aspire much confidence given India has already hit the top of the curve as a nation state.
 
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Upper castes hardly constitute 20 percent of hindu population..bjp would never come to power with out the support of backward castes who are above 50 pc.

The BJP came to power with the Upper Caste which is the ruling class in India, and owns all the media. and with the facilitation of the middle level caste who while aren't brahmins still see themselves as superior to many other subgroups inside india, add to that the fact that the RSS upper caste bhakts control the news stations and their billionaire members like the Ambanis and Adanis and others facilitate the control over the media, this leads to them having control over the narrative and shaping the debate and narratives however they wish and suppressing alternative voices.
 
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I was reading a news yesterday that in some place in Pakistan a man was killed by a mob by breaking into a police station...yes..a police station.
My question to educated Pakistanis who reside in Pakistan Is : Does all this lawlessness,poverty,corruption,terrorism,economic bankruptcy ,illiteracy and ignorance ,religious fanaticism drive you crazy? Doesn't it push you into deep depression?

I was asking myself this question when I read. that news...What would I do if I were an average pakistani? If I have the means I would leave Pakistan .Yes,personally I wouldn't like to leave my motherland..but what alternative do I have? I can't raise my voice against military...I can't discuss religion with logic...I can't help curb terrorism...there is nothing I could do.A foreign country can never be mine or of my descendants no matter how many years I live there but at least I can escape the depression and helplessness and provide my children a better environment to grow in.
It used to, still sometimes does. But being an ape about it doesnt help. Being as sulf sufficient as possible and trying to progress further does.
 
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idher ajj ye locha chal raha hai bhai

FowdI3jaYAE7FRW
 
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Pakistan is divided into 3 broad tiers:

1. The true elite -- i.e., the politicians, generals, judges, top bureaucrats, etc.

2. The middle class -- i.e., junior-to-mid-level military, urban professionals, doctors, etc. This is a broad group as it'd also include a 'lower middle class' and an 'upper poor class' depending on various factors. In general, I'd say any Pakistani with a shot at acquiring an education would fall into this group. So, the child of an army jawan would be in this group, if not now then eventually.

3. The disenfranchised poor -- i.e., the majority of the population who we generally don't care about, much or at all. These are Pakistanis we'd visually see around, but we in tiers 1 and 2 are indifferent to them.

What tends to happen is that the people within tier-1 will use the people in tier-3 in various ways, e.g., for cheap labor, farming, and -- when things get dicey -- mob violence. This is where you get those violent protests and stuff, for example.

Now, after many years of the tier-1 group downloading black money, drugs, guns, and degeneracy to tier-3, you're going to end up with a lot of messed up people. So, when there's a conflict among people within tier-3, especially if one side is an ethnic or religious minority, then the chances of mob lynching and the like go up.

However, the persecution at that level (against the minority) isn't state-sanctioned, or even supported by any of the political parties (including our right-wing parties and entities). It's a by-product of the work by the tier-1s.

Rather, the tier-1 group had used tier-3 people as dogs and armed them with both violent tendencies and low IQ thinking. So, when a 'big thug' rises among the tier-3s (or a tier-2 decides to become a 'big thug'), the tier-3s will rally around that thug because that's how tier-1s have conditioned them. If the 'big thug' raises the Communist flag, then I assure you, he'll have followers for no reason except that he is the alpha dog in his pack.

This is basically how the TTP emerged. Yes, the TTP has relatively few tier-1s (versus the other strata of Pakistani society), but they have a lot of 'big thugs' (from tier-2s and tier-3s) in their ranks. So, when those 'big thugs' make the call, the tier-3 minions come.

The closest things to BJP and RSS-style collusion and systemic persecution in Pakistan are in Sindh. In Sindh, there's a stronger ethnic-nationalist bent and, in turn, the PPP is tied to ethnocentric voices and actors. In turn, those actors work to take control of resources, define a narrative (about how Karachi "should be"), and other measures.

So, ethnic fighting between different groups -- especially in Sindh -- could be more broad-based (by involving people from tier-1 to tier-2 to tier-3). However, when some random poor person gets burned for being a minority, I wouldn't say there's an organized connection to the top as, in general, Pakistan's tier-1s don't have an interest in that sort of thing.

We can accuse our political and military elites of a lot of things, like a lot...but intentional and implicit hate against religious minorities isn't one of them. They're pretty blind to that stuff.

The closest would be JUI or MMA, but for them, the issue is about instituting a dhimmi-type system upon religious minorities. Yet, even in that sense, there's no vision of expelling religious minorities or expunging their presence in Pakistan (as that'd violate Islamic texts).

All that said, if we tier-2s (most Pakistanis on this forum are tier-2s) speak out against the tier-1s, then the tier-1s will send their minions from among the tier-3s on us. In Karachi, you had some tier-1s and tier-2s collude to form their counterforce -- i.e., MQM -- and that ends up in even bigger problems.
So tier -1 messed up the whole state
and uses tier -3 as their guardians.

Now what solution you will propose to people of tier -2 to clear up this mess created by tier -1?


This whole set-up is making our lives harder and harder by every passing day.
 
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So tier -1 messed up the whole state
and uses tier -3 as their guardians.

Now what solution you will propose to people of tier -2 to clear up this mess created by tier -1?


This whole set-up is making our lives harder and harder by every passing day.
We need sincere tier-1s to seek real change and remove the bad tier-1s. Our tier-2s can't do this alone without some tier-1s to be on the same page. Society is made up of all 3 tiers, so any real change requires shifts across all 3.

I know folks call or hope for revolutions and stuff. But that's not how it works. Even the French Revolution needed some key tier-1s to drop the French royal family and aristocracy (i.e., fellow tier-1s).
 
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We need sincere tier-1s to seek real change and remove the bad tier-1s. Our tier-2s can't do this alone without some tier-1s to be on the same page. Society is made up of all 3 tiers, so any real change requires shifts across all 3.

I know folks call or hope for revolutions and stuff. But that's not how it works. Even the French Revolution needed some key tier-1s to drop the French royal family and aristocracy (i.e., fellow tier-1s).
What i can conclude from your two posts is that:

If someone from tier -2 wants change in society,he will have to rise up to tier -1( of course sheer hardwork included) from where he should get help from other tier -1ists and then push change across all three tiers.
 
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