PTI was running brothel in the cover of Sit-in - Altaf Hussain.

[Rasengan]

It may look Hilarious to you but for me as Karachiite its more of a Disappointment because MQM has deep effects among Population and most of Karachiite had been Rational in Judging them that is why their support never seize away despite of all Bad things they been through because Karachiite have Witness Both sides of MQM Constructive as well as Destructive. Under such circumstances when people Actually Gather to support someone against them then they Expected some bit of extra from them and when they came out with Disappointment after Disappointment the damage is overwhelming. MQM are also perceived in this way to many people as well but the difference is that PTI is a new Platform that Disappoint but MQM had evolved and people knew under what circumstances we can get Best out of MQM and under what circumstances they become worse. Their is consensus that if MQM does Reforms under their party they can Improve Quite alot but same cant be said about any other Party in Pakistan.

Then Karachiite's have only themselves to blame, because they have allowed MQM to infiltrate the streets of Karachi. How exactly has MQM as a political entity has involved in the last few years? Then you advocate in your posts, that the people of Karachi believe in the notion that MQM will eventually reform. However, this argument is full of fallacy because a leopard does not change its stripes and its an assumption in the case of MQM changing in the future. Furthermore, you sound selfish because in all your grievances you have not mentioned Pakistan once, and are only concerned for Karachi. Therefore, you are willing to support a party and keep the rest of Pakistan under hostage.

Well I am Karachiite myself and never been to MQM Jalsas in my lifetime and also have friends who had been Associated with them so dont tell me how they brought so many people because most of it is nothing but same old PARROTING Accusations after Accusations that had been associated with MQM for 30 years. Their Workers and their Families are more then enough to fill a place as large as Tibet Center or Mazar-e-Quaid(Tomb along with whole garden). Their Mobilization Skills have been constructive and destructive depending on situations. You wont understand them because you might have very little or no experience with them but I have been watching them since their women use carry their family members Janazas to the Graveyard for Burial because State had Shoot to kill orders on their workers or supporters.

From your own admission, you have claimed to have never participated in a MQM jalsa, therefore you have no experience in understanding on whether they use violent tactics to force people to listen to chubby cheeks. Having friends who are associated with the party, does not exactly quantify the scenario that the accusations of enforcement is incorrect. Clearly, MQM do have some following although most members are not loyal, because they fear prosecution.

Upon my perception of you supporting PTI is because I have Observed(In fact I was doing myself in the past) whenever their was any Criticism of Imran Khan against MQM so called Neutrals out of nowhere started flocking in and cursing MQM but kept their Criticism Soft on PTI or Imran Khan. Its experience and very well known tactics used.

Then you should go to the economy section of this forum and check the PTI development thread, because I have criticized Imran Khan and his political party harshly in KPK. Imran Khan talked about Naya Pakistan, however in his province the investment cell is so bureaucratic in nature, that when I brought Chinese investment clients to them, there attitude was disgusting and lazy. Social change has occurred in KPK, however the investment talk of $30 billion from the Chinese is an illusion. Then my hatred of Imran Khan and his party, stems from the fact that he was originally against the military from taking action against the terrorists, allowing TTP to breath and operate across Pakistan leading to destruction and mayhem. He promised his supporters before the general election, that if the mandate of the people is stolen, then a revolution would take place. Since then Pakistan has had a petrol, electricity, gas and terrorists crisis. So I hate chubby cheeks that resides in London, however don't even think for one minute that I have some soft spot for PTI.

 

[pak-marine]

Then Karachiite's have only themselves to blame, because they have allowed MQM to infiltrate the streets of Karachi.

Really .. you may want to check again before coming up with sweeping statements such as this

 

[Rasengan]

Here we go now you were Asking how does I assume you Support PTI. Same old Piece that either Tahir-ul-Qadri or PTI would say. Their are many other ways for that as well as I said Punjab and KPK are well known for HORSE TRADING which needs a SMART PERSON to capitalize upon that their is an example of Musharraf giving Goos Bump to PPP in their own Back yard SIndh. If PTI have Iota of Intelligence in them they can also gather lot of Assembly members with them without Creating a Public Disturbance. They are currently Second Largest Party formed out of same HORSE TRADINGS before Elections and are losing them. This is what happened when you have WEAK FOUNDATION to stand upon. Non sense Politics of becoming Pressure Group when Party is second Largest in Pakistan says itself. Soon when Musharraf start Mobilizing his Muslim League PTI ranks would start getting Weaker because Musharraf is Clever and also Honest compare to Other politicians in Pakistan and all his Actions that were Questionable have PROVED to be Right in the past.

Well I have explained in my previous post, that I don't actually support PTI. Furthermore, I have no respect for TUQ because he did not avenge the death of his poor followers in model town and his only tactics was simple political rhetoric's. Let me ask you a question, because I want to see how you will reply back to me. Would you make a deal with the devil, just to score political leverage on your opponents? Because a man of principle and integrity would not make any political alliances with these cockroach parties, that rape, loot, murder, extort and ransom the mass population at gun point. Do you really believe in the idea that I support Musharraf and his wayward polices. The four-eyed dickhead had a glorious opportunity to make Pakistan an economic super power in Asia. However he made the wrong decision in allowing these cockroaches to have a foothold in Pakistan. Both elements need to become eradicated from Pakistan

Two Points only
1. PTI cant Organize and Manage their Jalsas Properly.(They should learn that from Tahir-ul-Qadri)
2. They use Disco and Dancing environment in their Jalsas despite of being known for Mismanagement.

Wholeheartedly agree on the point, that PTI as a political party should organize and manage there jalsa's properly. However, your second point makes no logical sense, since MQM actually use the same elements of disco in there jalsa and I even gave you a name as proof. Evidence can be proven, by watching videos on youtube or other websites.

Really .. you may want to check again before coming up with sweeping statements such as this

Before you criticize someone, the general norm in a debate dictates the conjecture that you provide some form of analysis in why my opinion is construed as false. My answer was based on the context of Gazi message and it makes logical sense, because if the public of Karachi and specifically its Urdu speaking population have allowed fascists ideology to seep in, then the current situation of violence is expected to transpire. Now, obviously Karachi has more than one party in its jurisdiction that is promoting violence, however since this thread is centered on MQM, a greater emphasis would be placed on them for the time being.

 

[pak-marine]

Before you criticize someone, the general norm in a debate dictates the conjecture that you provide some form of analysis in why my opinion is construed as false. .

In general debates you do not come up with sweeping statements without checking out the facts first you generalised an entire city without refering to history just so you know karachi voted for religious parties its just since last 30 years they are voting for MQM before that it was Jamat e Islami and a small no to PPP etc etc

So before you consider the urdu speaking facists do consider the fact that the community tried all options for a good 36 years also look into factors as what made urdu speaking community choose MQM over any one else all these years before considering them all fascists

 

[Waffen SS]

So before you consider the urdu speaking facists do consider the fact that the community tried all options for a good 36 years also look into factors as what made urdu speaking community choose MQM over any one else all these years before considering them all fascists

Today Idiot Khan reminded us once again why we chose MQM. We were so right after all. Our confidence, trust and allegiance to has been reinforced by the haters.

Haters shall continue to burn. The real creators of Pakistan have the will to stand up to any challenge.

 

[Rasengan]

In general debates you do not come up with sweeping statements without checking out the facts first you generalised an entire city without refering to history just so you know karachi voted for religious parties its just since last 30 years they are voting for MQM before that it was Jamat e Islami and a small no to PPP etc etc

It can be determined from your paragraph, that you failed to grasp and understand my opinion on the subject at hand. Gazi in his post articulated the conjecture that MQM as a political ideology has taken root in the mindset of the population in Karachi. Therefore, my response is very clear that violence and death has to be partially blamed on Karachiite's themselves, because they have elected these fools and have provided political legitimacy. Pakistan has only been in existence for 67 years. Therefore, it can be deduced that Karachiite's have become fools for supporting a party for 30 years and nothing on the law and order situation has really changed.

So before you consider the urdu speaking facists do consider the fact that the community tried all options for a good 36 years also look into factors as what made urdu speaking community choose MQM over any one else all these years before considering them all fascists

Again you failed to comprehend my opinion properly. I have never attributed the characteristics of the Urdu speaking community as fascists, however those who do support the agenda and political aims of MQM, can be regarded as fascists. Why can't the Urdu speaking population boycott all political parties or simply create a new one to replace the old.

Today Idiot Khan reminded us once again why we chose MQM. We were so right after all. Our confidence, trust and allegiance to has been reinforced by the haters.

Haters shall continue to burn. The real creators of Pakistan have the will to stand up to any challenge.

Do you really regard MQM as the real creators of Pakistan, when its chubby leader residing in London spoke fervently against the idea of the two-nation theory? Just like your avatar demonstrates, all MQM supporters are fascists since they get there political aspiration from Mein Kampf.

 

[Gazi]

Then Karachiite's have only themselves to blame, because they have allowed MQM to infiltrate the streets of Karachi. How exactly has MQM as a political entity has involved in the last few years? Then you advocate in your posts, that the people of Karachi believe in the notion that MQM will eventually reform. However, this argument is full of fallacy because a leopard does not change its stripes and its an assumption in the case of MQM changing in the future.

Here we go again same old Karachiite are themselves to blame crap that Proves my point that you must be another Parrot who repeats same stuff because is totally IGNORANT of Karachi and Karachiite...I have lost count of how many times I have read this sentence but what I know is whoever wrote that First time was an IDIOT. MQM Doesnt INFILTRATE Instead It REPLACE. MQM Workers are not American, Indian or Israeli who would INFILTRATE they and their Families have been in Karachi since Partition and lot of their Families were here even Before Partition. So word of Advice for you next time when you Parroting about MQM and use REPLACE in exchange of INFILTRATE when you use the same Sentence again. This wont make you well aware of Karachiite but it at least Cover your Ignorance of Karachi and Karachiite.

MQM has Managed to Survive along with their whole Generation now a days its Second Generation that are coming out to fill most of their ranks so REFORMS are already in process right now but since you dont have a clue about Karachi so Explaining the Reforms from Lower Ranks to Higher Ranks are Worthless....

From your own admission, you have claimed to have never participated in a MQM jalsa, therefore you have no experience in understanding on whether they use violent tactics to force people to listen to chubby cheeks. Having friends who are associated with the party, does not exactly quantify the scenario that the accusations of enforcement is incorrect. Clearly, MQM do have some following although most members are not loyal, because they fear prosecution.

My opinion of MQM Jalsas are Shaped by likes of me who Voted PTI in Last Election and comparison of PTI Setup and MQM Setup has influence them to Admit that They have done a big mistake of voting PTI. So by comparison you can easily get the point that they have attended Gatherings of Both Parties and they says that they have to been through long cues before reaching the Jalsa Gah of MQM but once inside its sigh of relief.

Then you should go to the economy section of this forum and check the PTI development thread, because I have criticized Imran Khan and his political party harshly in KPK. Imran Khan talked about Naya Pakistan, however in his province the investment cell is so bureaucratic in nature, that when I brought Chinese investment clients to them, there attitude was disgusting and lazy. Social change has occurred in KPK, however the investment talk of $30 billion from the Chinese is an illusion. Then my hatred of Imran Khan and his party, stems from the fact that he was originally against the military from taking action against the terrorists, allowing TTP to breath and operate across Pakistan leading to destruction and mayhem. He promised his supporters before the general election, that if the mandate of the people is stolen, then a revolution would take place. Since then Pakistan has had a petrol, electricity, gas and terrorists crisis. So I hate chubby cheeks that resides in London, however don't even think for one minute that I have some soft spot for PTI.

OK buddy I got your Point that you arent PTI supporter and take my Words back but replace it with Soft corner(You can say the same to me regarding MQM) but you are Still IGNORANT of Karachi and Karachiites so that point stays.....

Would you make a deal with the devil, just to score political leverage on your opponents? Because a man of principle and integrity would not make any political alliances with these cockroach parties, that rape, loot, murder, extort and ransom the mass population at gun point. Do you really believe in the idea that I support Musharraf and his wayward polices. The four-eyed dickhead had a glorious opportunity to make Pakistan an economic super power in Asia. However he made the wrong decision in allowing these cockroaches to have a foothold in Pakistan. Both elements need to become eradicated from Pakistan

Talk about Dealing with a Devil then that is EXACTLY what Politics is and this has been whole Purpose of Democracy in many Countries and PTI is also Guilty of doing such thing before Elections when they Filled their Ranks with Javed Hashmi, Shah Mehmood and countless others along with Horse Tradding they done in Past. but if that dealing can make a difference then it should be given a chance because in the end of the day Pakistanis doesnt give to hoot for Ideologies, Principles and Integrity instead vote on the basis of self Interest and Rhetoric. So your point about Principle and Integrity has no Place in Politics till people get Matured to think that way before voting someone. Until then if that 4 eye Bogeyman from the past trying to do something right then he is Good guy to me because from my Past Experience he is RELIABLE and he can Make a Difference until their is someone else who fills his position.

Wholeheartedly agree on the point, that PTI as a political party should organize and manage there jalsa's properly. However, your second point makes no logical sense, since MQM actually use the same elements of disco in there jalsa and I even gave you a name as proof. Evidence can be proven, by watching videos on youtube or other websites.

If MQM doesnt fall on first Point of mine then they still Satisfy the First Point and its Good enough for me because PTI, PPP and Nawaz doesnt even Satisfy themselves on both points that I mentioned Earlier so Some thing is better then Nothing Rules Applied over here to MQM's Favor as I wont be taking a risk to allow any member of my Family to PTI Jalsa(If someone ask me for that) but for MQM I would be reluctantly Allow after lot of Brain storming in the end.

 

[SQ8]

Well, that is just wrong. PTI was NOT running any brothel, young people in Pakistan were just getting it on.. the number of "Ghilaaf e Auzar e Mohabbat" scattered all over the place in the morning were pretty much proof that a lot of people were getting it on during the party.

 

[Rasengan]

Here we go again same old Karachiite are themselves to blame crap that Proves my point that you must be another Parrot who repeats same stuff because is totally IGNORANT of Karachi and Karachiite...I have lost count of how many times I have read this sentence but what I know is whoever wrote that First time was an IDIOT. MQM Doesnt INFILTRATE Instead It REPLACE. MQM Workers are not American, Indian or Israeli who would INFILTRATE they and their Families have been in Karachi since Partition and lot of their Families were here even Before Partition. So word of Advice for you next time when you Parroting about MQM and use REPLACE in exchange of INFILTRATE when you use the same Sentence again. This wont make you well aware of Karachiite but it at least Cover your Ignorance of Karachi and Karachiite.

Technically your analysis is full of contradictions and hypocrisy. Previously, you proclaimed in your diagnosis that you supported PTI in the election, because they represented the idea of change and reform from occurring in Karachi. During that particular moment, MQM as a political party was not ingrained in your mindset, because you knew full well that Karachi was held at ransom point, with the racketing scheme operating across the city and violence was the common norm. Therefore, you have by your own admission agreed upon the conjecture that MQM is a mafia organization. However, then you had an epiphany and became disillusioned with PTI politics and resigned your self back to the ranks of MQM. Your only argument in supporting them again, was the idea that they are less of a rotten apple than the other political parties in Karachi. In addition, you advocated that MQM political ideology over a period of time has become deeply rooted within Karachi. Therefore Karachiites have them selves to blame for the violence, because MQM have contributed to the bloodshed of the city, and in your opinion people in the city still support them as a result, by giving them political legitimacy. You can squeak and moan all you want about my ignorance of Karachi, but the reality is I can at least walk safely upon my own streets and don't have to be scared that a bunch of hoodlums would drill a nail across my forehead. Your just a puppet on a string and I can at least feel comfortable, that no political party can control me.

 

[Musafir117]

Well, that is just wrong. PTI was NOT running any brothel, young people in Pakistan were just getting it on.. the number of "Ghilaaf e Auzar e Mohabbat" scattered all over the place in the morning were pretty much proof that a lot of people were getting it on during the party.

:rof:
@"Ghiaaf e Auzar e Mohbbat"

 

[Rasengan]

MQM has Managed to Survive along with their whole Generation now a days its Second Generation that are coming out to fill most of their ranks so REFORMS are already in process right now but since you dont have a clue about Karachi so Explaining the Reforms from Lower Ranks to Higher Ranks are Worthless....

The time is ticking and MQM is on the verge of becoming eradicated in the distant future. Already, a court case is transpiring in the United Kingdom, where chubby cheeks is facing an inquiry from Scotland Yard on money laundering charges. MQM supporters can practice there monkey dance in Karachi to show there dissatisfaction, however he will be convicted and be chained like a dog in the United Kingdom. The next generation can continue to hold the torch for MQM, however the hilarious reality is that your just a small party based in a single city. Eventually an honest person would come to the forefront and eradicate the existence of this party. You could not explain and provide evidence on reform, because no such step has taken place. Live in your fantasy world of grandeur and false sense of security, because I don't have to worry about being tortured to death.

OK buddy I got your Point that you arent PTI supporter and take my Words back but replace it with Soft corner(You can say the same to me regarding MQM) but you are Still IGNORANT of Karachi and Karachiites so that point stays.....

Fantastic to finally get some recognition, that I have no political affiliation with PTI and its incompetent leadership. Well, you are entitled to your opinion in believing that I am ignorant on Karachi.

 

[Khalidr]

You should also look what kind of show Imran Khan is running as we saw likes of DJ Butt with all his Music system in Jalsas. What is the whole purpose of having DJ on Political Gathering on the first Place????DJs are good for Disco Bars in Political Jalsas and Dharnas along with leadership doesnt make any sense as long as a party is using Cheap Methods to Attract Youths towards their Jalsas and Dharnas. That need to stop as well No one Objects Music in Jalsas and Dharnas as every party have songs these days but Having DJ for that purpose does made it Questionable.

and you justify what Altaf the bastard said, if you really do then shame on you, having DJ or having music at jalsa is not some thing new.. really some time it made us feel ashamed to see our Pakistani people having mentality like you.

 

[xyxmt]

he is right, I am a witness I saw this woman running the brothel in dharna

 

[Gazi]

Technically your analysis is full of contradictions and hypocrisy. Previously, you proclaimed in your diagnosis that you supported PTI in the election, because they represented the idea of change and reform from occurring in Karachi. During that particular moment, MQM as a political party was not ingrained in your mindset, because you knew full well that Karachi was held at ransom point, with the racketing scheme operating across the city and violence was the common norm. Therefore, you have by your own admission agreed upon the conjecture that MQM is a mafia organization. However, then you had an epiphany and became disillusioned with PTI politics and resigned your self back to the ranks of MQM. Your only argument in supporting them again, was the idea that they are less of a rotten apple than the other political parties in Karachi. In addition, you advocated that MQM political ideology over a period of time has become deeply rooted within Karachi. Therefore Karachiites have them selves to blame for the violence, because MQM have contributed to the bloodshed of the city, and in your opinion people in the city still support them as a result, by giving them political legitimacy. You can squeak and moan all you want about my ignorance of Karachi, but the reality is I can at least walk safely upon my own streets and don't have to be scared that a bunch of hoodlums would drill a nail across my forehead. Your just a puppet on a string and I can at least feel comfortable, that no political party can control me.

Yes that is true I thought its better to move on but that moving on end up with nothing but disappointment so better I should return back because their is nothing left in Pakistani politics which offers any answer but MQM has the Potential that they should realize and started realizing when they Disbanded Rabita Committee and started Restructuring but that need TIME which they are not getting as either they have get involved in Political, Social and now a days SURVIVAL fronts(Rangers are on Killing Spree these days) so in this situation it is only Obvious that we cant get any results soon instead it would take time....

I think you doesnt get my whole point that Karachiite have seen the Constructive Side and Destructive Side of MQM and are also Aware of when their Constructive side comes in Action and Where the destructive side comes in action....So in others we Karachiite know MQM from inside out while others are too foreign or Unknown to us Karachiite and Time and Time again they have also Proved to be Irrelevant to us as well so its Better stick to someone with whom we can work things out instead of Bearing another EXPERIMENTS that was Tried to IMPOSE on us in past and now a days are asked to take....If State had left us alone in 1990s then MQM would have been Replaced by now but when they tried to Impose themselves and Tried to Influence Their will they not only Called for Trouble but also turned Karachiite against them....

If you walk Safely in your Streets then good for you and live your lives with comfort you have why do you even Bother to care about MQM with all the Repeated Allegations and Accusations in which many have got SCRAPED by Accusers themselves????Its our problems let us deal with it so stay in your comfort zone and dont try to make a joke out of yourself by trying to introduce your Judgments because your Judgments doesnt Apply here and every time you do you make yourself more Irrelevant.....

and you justify what Altaf the bastard said, if you really do then shame on you, having DJ or having music at jalsa is not some thing new.. really some time it made us feel ashamed to see our Pakistani people having mentality like you.

My justifications cant be explain by Quoting just one reply this whole thread is full of my Replies so go through that if you want to know my Justifications otherwise give me the break....

 

[Rasengan]

Talk about Dealing with a Devil then that is EXACTLY what Politics is and this has been whole Purpose of Democracy in many Countries and PTI is also Guilty of doing such thing before Elections when they Filled their Ranks with Javed Hashmi, Shah Mehmood and countless others along with Horse Tradding they done in Past. but if that dealing can make a difference then it should be given a chance because in the end of the day Pakistanis doesnt give to hoot for Ideologies, Principles and Integrity instead vote on the basis of self Interest and Rhetoric. So your point about Principle and Integrity has no Place in Politics till people get Matured to think that way before voting someone. Until then if that 4 eye Bogeyman from the past trying to do something right then he is Good guy to me because from my Past Experience he is RELIABLE and he can Make a Difference until their is someone else who fills his position.

You have advocated in your message that politics at its current form in Pakistan is like dealing with the devil. Then, should you not agree with my opinion, that all political parties should be boycotted until a new voice of reasoning arises in Pakistan? I have the luxury of at least knowing, that my support and political allegiance would not be given to a psychopathic killer. You seem to use PTI in all your examples, I find it rather amusing. Let me tell you something, I want to see Javed Hashmi, Shah Mahmood and all the other horse traders hanged in Pakistan and I don't want to see a PTI regime in government. Well voting for self-interests on monetary and political gain has led to the destruction of Pakistan. Ideology is the key component and one day a person will come to cleanse the filth from Pakistan. Clearly that four eyed dickhead was not reliable and sound in practice because he allowed negative forces to return from abroad.