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[POLL] Su-34 vs F-35. Rate the best strike fighter in the world.

which


  • Total voters
    19
AIM-120D AMRAAM have target engagement range of 200 KM, and it is suitable for engaging a target in both BVR and WVR situations. And it is MACH 4+ in speed.

Not sure from where you got the impression that munitions suffer degradation in their engagement capacity on F-35; absolutely illogical assertion. Avionics architecture of F-35 is designed to maximize engagement performance as in extract the most out of munitions.
as I said F-35 neither have the speed nor the altitude to reach those range , if you want to reach that 180km max range you must use something like F-15 or F-22 that are a lot faster and fly higher.
the companies make many nonsense claim about their product ,for example look at this from Lockheed Martin about F-35
image


they touted this non existent beast mode , but they forget to say they may upgrade f-35 to be able to carry that much weapon if there is demand for it in future and right now the necessary hardware for carrying that much weapon is nonexistence ,just the usual practice of hiding part of the truth.
 
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if F-35 want to match SU-35 payload it must use external hard point and then it's not stealthy at all.
I was on the F-111 and F-16, so I may have some understanding of 'payload'...:enjoy:

If you can carry 1,000 pounds, what does that mean? Does it mean one object that weighs 1,000 lbs? Or does it mean a TOTAL of 1,000 lbs that can be comprised of multiple smaller loads or just a single load?

In combat, the destruction of one combatant unit, be it a machine gun post or a missile battery, can change the course of the battle in one side's favor. The F-35 do not need to carry multiple units of bombs. Given the precision of guided munitions today, two 500 lbs bombs delivered at crucial locations on the battlefield WILL change the course of that particular battle. A radar gap will be just enough for 'non-stealth' bombers to make it. For the soldiers on the ground, a destroyed machine gun emplacement will be the opening they needed to break through. YOU do not know.

Do you see the point?
 
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To be the best strike fighter you must prove that you can take out GROUND TARGETS better than competition.
This means capabilities to identify the target and to hit it.
The F-35 sensors and guided weapons leaves every Suchoi in the dust.

The real winner might be an F-15 though.
well Su-35 can carry and use Club-A(3M-14AE) & Kh-29TE against ship it can use Club-A(3M-54AE) & KH-35U & Kh-59MK or even one P-800 Oniks it can use Kh-58UShE & Kh-31PD & Kh-25MP against Radars and do that from hundreds of km away
It also can use a wide variety of KAB tv and Laser Guided bombs so honestly you can't say in strike mission its fangless compared to F-35

also don't forget that F-35 can't carry many of it's long range ground attack weapons internally as they are longer than its internal bay and some have problem folding their wings

about other systems Su-35 has Ibris-E , F35 has AGP-81
Su-35 has OLS-35 F-35 has AAQ-40
Su-35 has L175M Kibniy-m F-35 has AAQ37/ASQ239
Both of them have data link

I wonder why you say F-35 has better equipment for strike missions
 
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as I said F-35 neither have the speed nor the altitude to reach those range , if you want to reach that 180km max range you must use something like F-15 or F-22 that are a lot faster and fly higher.
This does not make an iota of sense.

Operational ceiling (altitude) and maximum speed of any combat aircraft are almost irrelevant in a high-stakes modern battlespace because SURVIVABILITY is PRIMARY CONCERN* (evasive maneuvers), and every sortie is supposed to be "mission-relevant." During the course of FIRST GULF WAR, it was UNCOMMON for combat aircraft to exceed MACH 1.1 in their sorties, and many operated within the altitude range of 20,000 - 40,000 feet (outside the range of AA guns). Pilots made use of BVR munitions to engage and kill enemy aircraft from considerable distances [when they had the chance], and AWACS platforms, assisted them in this respect. In fact, pilots achieved KILLS with BVR munitions even in WVR situations against various types of airborne targets including slow-moving helicopters. Take a good look at the statistics: http://www.rjlee.org/air/ds-aakill/By Range/

*Ask any veteran.

From Erik Davis (Aviation expert and flight instructor):-

"Airplanes back in the 1950’s and 1960’s were most concerned with pushing faster and faster, flying higher and higher. The B-70 a Mach 3 super fast bomber, prompted the Soviets to counter with the MiG 25 a high flying intercepter. The SR-71 a great airplane and spy plane capable of flights over 80,000 feet at speeds greater than 2100 mph. At speeds that high, not possible to open a bomb bay, but OK of photographing the ground below, with high resolution film equipped cameras. A practical purpose for high speed flight.

High speed flight has drawbacks - materials and difficulty in obtaining. Titanium is mainly found in Russia. Low turning rate, the higher the speed, the lower the turning rate. Increased visibility to more sensors. Speed equals heat rendering the airframe highly visible to infra-Red. Higher flying means more visibility to radar.

Russian-made missiles capable of Mach 4 can get to 80000 feet in a mere 10 seconds, properly launched, could take out the SR-71. In the past catching the SR-71 was almost impossible. The advancement of Russian Radars and missiles made it not only possible, but a risky probability, combined with the astronomical cost of operation, difficulty maintaining the SR-71 it quickly became obsolescent. That is why it is retired.

The F-16, F-18, F-22 and F-35 are not capable of Flight beyond Mach 2, not because of aerodynamics or not-as-powerful engines, quite the opposite, none of those airplanes have variable geometric engine inlets to deflect the shockwave from entering the engine. After years of combat testing and simulation, faster than Mach 2 flight isn’t in anyway advantageous in a combat situation. Fast acceleration, turning capability and now stealth from radar is the way.

Two of my flight students are avionics techs on the F-16. At Red Flag the F-35 mopped the floor with the F-16 in exercises, 129–0 during the week they were there.

Dispite criticism from nay sayers, which once included myself, the results are becoming very impressive, that the F-35 is an amazing revolutionary platform. This airplane like the F-22 is capable of post-Stall maneuvering."


F-35 variants have sufficient operational ceiling (50,000 feet) and cruising speed (MACH 1.8), to be operationally relevant in any situation that may arise in a modern battlespace. However, F-35 variants are incredibly potent as a fighter (air-to-air engagements), and in strike missions (air-to-surface), because they are VLO by design [optimized for negating situational awareness capabilities of potential opponents], and have pushed the envelope with their own situational awareness capabilities on the other hand [see images below]. In layman terms, agenda is to have the luxury to SEE FIRST and SHOOT FIRST.

file.php


file.php


tsa.jpg


Pilots receive full 360 degree coverage of potential threats across the battlespace with combination of long-range PASSIVE and ACTIVE sensor package (electronically fused) wherein ACTIVE sensor package establish full volume search in under 3 seconds and PASSIVE sensor package take care of target acquisition processes afterwards.

f35_technology_das.jpg


Look at the speed at which an AIM-120D AMRAAM proceed towards a potential target:-


the companies make many nonsense claim about their product ,for example look at this from Lockheed Martin about F-35
image


they touted this non existent beast mode , but they forget to say they may upgrade f-35 to be able to carry that much weapon if there is demand for it in future and right now the necessary hardware for carrying that much weapon is nonexistence ,just the usual practice of hiding part of the truth.
Non-existent?

Jeff Babione, general manager of the F-35 program, told reporters at Lockheed Martin's DC area office that at different stages in a conflict, the F-35's different potential weapons load outs suit it for different missions.

Down to the ten thousandth of an inch, the exterior of the F-35 has been precisely machined to baffle radars. This means holding 5,000 pounds of bombs internally, and only opening up the bomb bays at the exact moment of a strike to stay hidden.

The stealth makes it ideal for penetrating defended airspaces and knocking out defenses, but after the careful work of surface-to-air missile hunting is done, expect the F-35 to go beast.

"When we don't necessarily need to be stealthy, we can carry up to 18,000 pounds of bombs," said Babione. "Whether it's the first day of the war when we need the stealth, or the second or third … whenever the F-35 is called, it can do the mission."


Source: https://www.businessinsider.com/f-35-beast-mode-stealth-2017-3

Emphasis on the colored parts of the revelation; Standard Operating Procedure (SOP).

BEAST MODE testing regime:-

F35-beast-mode-300x240.jpg


CAPTION: The final SDD Test flight CF-2 Flt 596 was piloted by BAE Test pilot Peter Wilson, April 11, 2018, from the F-35 Pax River Integrated Test Force. The F-35C completed a mission to collect loads data while carrying external 2,000-pound GBU-31 Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAM) and AIM-9X Sidewinder heat-seeking missiles.


about other systems Su-35 has Ibris-E , F35 has AGP-81
Su-35 has OLS-35 F-35 has AAQ-40
Su-35 has L175M Kibniy-m F-35 has AAQ37/ASQ239
Both of them have data link

I wonder why you say F-35 has better equipment for strike missions
Avionics architecture of F-35 variants is in another league in comparison:-

file.php


SU-35S have FEDERATED system architecture:-

Su-35-1-Cockpit-1S.jpg


At most, SU-35S can be made to achieve DATA CORRELATION:-

combat-systems-fusion-engine-for-the-f35-5-728.jpg


F-35 variants have 100% ELECTRONICALLY FUSED system architecture by design:-

635687698024036598-2K0B5613.jpg


combat-systems-fusion-engine-for-the-f35-6-728.jpg


As pointed out above, any F-35 variant offer much higher level of situation awareness to its pilot in comparison to any 4.5th generation combat aircraft in existence, granting its pilot sufficient flexibility to expend majority of effort on TACTICS.

Even in a traditional sensor-to-sensor comparison, F-35 variants pull ahead from SU-35S.

It will take me substantial amount of time to explain to you the merits of F-35 variants, therefore, my advice to you is to do your own homework.
 
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This does not make an iota of sense.

Operational ceiling (altitude) and maximum speed of any combat aircraft are almost irrelevant in a high-stakes modern battlespace because SURVIVABILITY is PRIMARY CONCERN* (evasive maneuvers), and every sortie is supposed to be "mission-relevant." During the course of FIRST GULF WAR, it was UNCOMMON for combat aircraft to exceed MACH 1.1 in their sorties, and many operated within the altitude range of 20,000 - 40,000 feet (outside the range of AA guns). Pilots made use of BVR munitions to engage and kill enemy aircraft from considerable distances [when they had the chance], and AWACS platforms, assisted them in this respect. In fact, pilots achieved KILLS with BVR munitions even in WVR situations against various types of airborne targets including slow-moving helicopters. Take a good look at the statistics: http://www.rjlee.org/air/ds-aakill/By Range/

*Ask any veteran.

From Erik Davis (Aviation expert and flight instructor):-

"Airplanes back in the 1950’s and 1960’s were most concerned with pushing faster and faster, flying higher and higher. The B-70 a Mach 3 super fast bomber, prompted the Soviets to counter with the MiG 25 a high flying intercepter. The SR-71 a great airplane and spy plane capable of flights over 80,000 feet at speeds greater than 2100 mph. At speeds that high, not possible to open a bomb bay, but OK of photographing the ground below, with high resolution film equipped cameras. A practical purpose for high speed flight.

High speed flight has drawbacks - materials and difficulty in obtaining. Titanium is mainly found in Russia. Low turning rate, the higher the speed, the lower the turning rate. Increased visibility to more sensors. Speed equals heat rendering the airframe highly visible to infra-Red. Higher flying means more visibility to radar.

Russian-made missiles capable of Mach 4 can get to 80000 feet in a mere 10 seconds, properly launched, could take out the SR-71. In the past catching the SR-71 was almost impossible. The advancement of Russian Radars and missiles made it not only possible, but a risky probability, combined with the astronomical cost of operation, difficulty maintaining the SR-71 it quickly became obsolescent. That is why it is retired.

The F-16, F-18, F-22 and F-35 are not capable of Flight beyond Mach 2, not because of aerodynamics or not-as-powerful engines, quite the opposite, none of those airplanes have variable geometric engine inlets to deflect the shockwave from entering the engine. After years of combat testing and simulation, faster than Mach 2 flight isn’t in anyway advantageous in a combat situation. Fast acceleration, turning capability and now stealth from radar is the way.

Two of my flight students are avionics techs on the F-16. At Red Flag the F-35 mopped the floor with the F-16 in exercises, 129–0 during the week they were there.

Dispite criticism from nay sayers, which once included myself, the results are becoming very impressive, that the F-35 is an amazing revolutionary platform. This airplane like the F-22 is capable of post-Stall maneuvering."


F-35 variants have sufficient operational ceiling (50,000 feet) and cruising speed (MACH 1.8), to be operationally relevant in any situation that may arise in a modern battlespace. However, F-35 variants are incredibly potent as a fighter (air-to-air engagements), and in strike missions (air-to-surface), because they are VLO by design [optimized for negating situational awareness capabilities of potential opponents], and have pushed the envelope with their own situational awareness capabilities on the other hand [see images below]. In layman terms, agenda is to have the luxury to SEE FIRST and SHOOT FIRST.

file.php


file.php


tsa.jpg


Pilots receive full 360 degree coverage of potential threats across the battlespace with combination of long-range PASSIVE and ACTIVE sensor package (electronically fused) wherein ACTIVE sensor package establish full volume search in under 3 seconds and PASSIVE sensor package take care of target acquisition processes afterwards.

f35_technology_das.jpg


Look at the speed at which an AIM-120D AMRAAM proceed towards a potential target:-
Honestly I don't have the stamina or Patience to explain to you why if yo fire AIM-120 or any other A2A missile from an airplane with higher speed and at higher altitude it can go farther . if you don't believe me go and ask some pilots , there are several of them in this forum
Non-existent?

Jeff Babione, general manager of the F-35 program, told reporters at Lockheed Martin's DC area office that at different stages in a conflict, the F-35's different potential weapons load outs suit it for different missions.

Down to the ten thousandth of an inch, the exterior of the F-35 has been precisely machined to baffle radars. This means holding 5,000 pounds of bombs internally, and only opening up the bomb bays at the exact moment of a strike to stay hidden.

The stealth makes it ideal for penetrating defended airspaces and knocking out defenses, but after the careful work of surface-to-air missile hunting is done, expect the F-35 to go beast.

"When we don't necessarily need to be stealthy, we can carry up to 18,000 pounds of bombs," said Babione. "Whether it's the first day of the war when we need the stealth, or the second or third … whenever the F-35 is called, it can do the mission."


Source: https://www.businessinsider.com/f-35-beast-mode-stealth-2017-3

Emphasis on the colored parts of the revelation; Standard Operating Procedure (SOP).

BEAST MODE testing regime:-

F35-beast-mode-300x240.jpg


CAPTION: The final SDD Test flight CF-2 Flt 596 was piloted by BAE Test pilot Peter Wilson, April 11, 2018, from the F-35 Pax River Integrated Test Force. The F-35C completed a mission to collect loads data while carrying external 2,000-pound GBU-31 Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAM) and AIM-9X Sidewinder heat-seeking missiles.
yes non existent because they still didn't offer the necessary hardware to put 2 missile on each hard point and that's necessary if you want to carry 16 Air to Air missile with F-35
Avionics architecture of F-35 variants is in another league in comparison:-

file.php


SU-35S have FEDERATED system architecture:-

Su-35-1-Cockpit-1S.jpg


At most, SU-35S can be made to achieve DATA CORRELATION:-

combat-systems-fusion-engine-for-the-f35-5-728.jpg


F-35 variants have 100% ELECTRONICALLY FUSED system architecture by design:-

635687698024036598-2K0B5613.jpg


combat-systems-fusion-engine-for-the-f35-6-728.jpg


As pointed out above, any F-35 variant offer much higher level of situation awareness to its pilot in comparison to any 4.5th generation combat aircraft in existence, granting its pilot sufficient flexibility to expend majority of effort on TACTICS.

Even in a traditional sensor-to-sensor comparison, F-35 variants pull ahead from SU-35S.

It will take me substantial amount of time to explain to you the merits of F-35 variants, therefore, my advice to you is to do your own homework.
Please give us numbers as far as I knew the range of the radar for SU-35 is nearly twice of F-35
 
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Honestly I don't have the stamina or Patience to explain to you why if yo fire AIM-120 or any other A2A missile from an airplane with higher speed and at higher altitude it can go farther . if you don't believe me go and ask some pilots , there are several of them in this forum
@gambit
@hellfire

Input needed in this regard.

My explanation flew over his head, unfortunately.

yes non existent because they still didn't offer the necessary hardware to put 2 missile on each hard point and that's necessary if you want to carry 16 Air to Air missile with F-35
Commonly advertised payload capacity of any F-35 variant is 8160 KG with 11 hardpoints in total; very impressive payload capacity for an aircraft of its size. This match (or exceed) the commonly advertised payload capacity of SU-35S at 8000 KG mark.

Overview of the payload capacity of F-35 variants:

image


Take a look at the Dutch configuration for instance:-

[1] https://theaviationist.com/2018/08/...ration-fly-at-low-level-in-the-sierra-nevada/
[2] https://www.businessinsider.com/wat...ast-mode-for-air-support-and-total-war-2018-8

Lockheed Martin have advertised various payload possibilities with F-35 variants by now, but actual BEAST MODE configurations will be determined/finalized by the operators of the aircraft in question.

The BEAST MODE configuration of 16 A2A missiles is hinted by Lockheed Martin, but this will be realized at some point in the future. Try to follow the CONTEXT of an argument, and not blow it out of proportion and/or misdirect it.

Please give us numbers as far as I knew the range of the radar for SU-35 is nearly twice of F-35
Does it matter?

Design philosophy of F-35 variants, is to UNDERMINE the 'situational awareness' of the opposing aircraft to large extent by virtue of its "omnidirectional VLO characteristics" across C, X, Ku and S bands.

[3] https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-3e24760ea492a0a5821f611bc05f52ef.webp

SU-30SM (RED aircraft) for reference in [3].

f22a-vs-flanker.gif


Battlespace for SU-35S or similar combat aircraft:-

another-coalition-airpower-dynamic-training-for-next-generation-aircraft-4-638.jpg


Same battlespace for F-35 variants:-

another-coalition-airpower-dynamic-training-for-next-generation-aircraft-5-638.jpg
 
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To be the best strike fighter you must prove that you can take out GROUND TARGETS better than competition.
This means capabilities to identify the target and to hit it.
The F-35 sensors and guided weapons leaves every Suchoi in the dust.

The real winner might be an F-15 though.

Su-34's Platan electro optical / laser targeting system is on par with F-35's EOTS electro optical / laser targeting system. On top of that, Su-34 has terrain following radar.

Get out your falsehood kid this not R-77 adder but R-27 Alamo conterpart of AIM-7 sparrow @undertakerwwefan :hitwall::hitwall::hitwall::crazy::crazy:

What are you talking about? R-27EA is active radar guided range > 130 km. R-27EA is Russia counterpart of America AIM-120D.
 
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as I said F-35 neither have the speed nor the altitude to reach those range , if you want to reach that 180km max range you must use something like F-15 or F-22 that are a lot faster and fly higher.
the companies make many nonsense claim about their product ,for example look at this from Lockheed Martin about F-35
image


they touted this non existent beast mode , but they forget to say they may upgrade f-35 to be able to carry that much weapon if there is demand for it in future and right now the necessary hardware for carrying that much weapon is nonexistence ,just the usual practice of hiding part of the truth.

non existent? lol

you do realize beast mode is just attaching pylons and doesn't require any upgrades right? attaching pylons is fast and can be done anywhere.

58347556ba6eb606688b4c3e-750-563.jpg


the-top-25-weapons-companies-in-the-world-excluding-china.jpg
 
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What are you talking about? R-27EA is active radar guided range > 130 km. R-27EA is Russia counterpart of America AIM-120D.
welcome back for trolling kid R-27EA is not mass produce as semi active R-27 , R-77 (AMRAAMski) is counterpart of AIM-120 and get your fact straight kid AIM-120D has range of 180 Km a replacement of AIM-154 Phonixs for USN, get out of your falsehood kid @undertakerwwefan :hitwall::hitwall::hitwall::hitwall:

Su-34's Platan electro optical / laser targeting system is on par with F-35's EOTS electro optical / laser targeting system. On top of that, Su-34 has terrain following radar.
Su-34 has limited data fusion/system integration etc etc, F-35 is world most electronically advance jet without a doubt @undertakerwwefan :crazy::crazy::crazy:
 
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I think there us something wrong here. I thought sukhoi 34 was supposed to be a fighter bomber.. While f 35 a multi role.
 
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but that'll kill any stealth abilities...

thats the whole point of the difference between stealth mode and beast mode, beast mode is only used if there is no threat and stealth capabilities are not needed.
 
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