Iran Implies Collapse Of Deal To Buy Russia’s Su-35 Warplanes

[Falcon29]

Why would they ? Iran tries to act like boss in Syria and would harm Russia's interests much more than it harms US interests. Iran competes with Russia and China in the ME region and not the US.

 

[khansaheeb]

A Russian Aerospace Forces Su-35S during a standard takeoff procedure

Iran Implies Collapse Of Deal To Buy Russia’s Su-35 Warplanes​

8 hours ago3 minutes
Author: Iran International Newsroom
Conflict - MilitaryIranForeign Relations

Iran’s defense minister has tacitly confirmed that the deal to buy long-sought Sukhoi Su-35 fighter jets from Russia has collapsed.
Mohammad-Reza Gharaei Ashtiani was asked on Wednesday about the status of the deal – which was purportedly finalized last year. He replied the country has the capability to produce the fighters domestically, suggesting a possible shift in plans.
Iranian officials announced on several occasions during the past few years that Russia would sell several Sukhoi Su-35 fighter jets to Iran, but such claims never yielded any results.
Ashtiani, who sounded reluctant to provide any details, said: "At some point, we made a deal for the purchase, but we came to the conclusion that we have the ability to produce (fighter jets) in the country." However, he also mentioned that the authorities are "investigating the situation" and could reconsider the purchase if deemed necessary.

Iran's Defense Minister Brigadier General Mohammad Reza Ashtiani
In 2018, Iran said it had started production of the locally designed Kowsar fighter for use in its air force. Some military experts believe the jet is a carbon copy of an F-5 first produced in the United States in the 1960s.
Different scenarios have been speculated as to the reason behind the collapse of the deal with Russia. There are speculations that Israel may have influenced Russia's decision to withhold the advanced fighters from Iran. The American government has also expressed concerns about the extensive military cooperation between Russia and Iran, considering it potentially harmful to regional stability.
A more plausible explanation was given by aviation expert and author Babak Taghvaee, who said the obstacle is Russia's refusal to transfer crucial technology for producing Su-35 parts in Iran and providing knowledge for domestic maintenance for the next 30 years.
He cited Commander of the Iranian Army’s Air Force Brigadier General Hamid Vahedi as telling his sources that "for now, the General Staff of the Armed Forces has opposed procurement of Su-35SE multirole fighter jets from Russia as Russian government refuses to transfer technology for production of their parts in Iran as well as to provide the knowledge for maintaining the aircraft domestically for the next 30 years."

Sukhoi Su-35 jet fighters of the "Sokoly Rossii" (Falcons of Russia) aerobatic team fly in formation during a rehearsal for the airshow in Krasnoyarsk, Russia August 1, 2019.

Taghvaee added that Russians want to sell only 25 Su-35Es previously ordered by Egypt without proper maintenance, weapons, spare part support and simulators.
“On the basis of the lessons learned from the sale and delivery of Su-30SM fighter jets to Armenia and the insidious decision of the Russian government for not allowing Armenians to operate them against Azerbaijan during the recent Karabakh war, it is highly possible that the untrustworthy Russians do the same to the Iranian air force in case of their intention for using Su-35SEs in war," he added.
In September, Vahedi said that buying Su-35s is on the agenda of the Air Force but the country has no plans to buy Sukhoi Su-30s, both developed from Sukhoi Su-27 which was a Soviet-origin twin-engine supermaneuverable fighter aircraft. Su-35 is single-seat but Su-30 is a two-seat, multi-role fighter. According to reports, the Army’s Air Force needs at least 64 aircraft, 24 of which will come from Egypt's order which remained undelivered due to US pressure on Cairo.

First parts of a Russian S-400 missile defense system are unloaded from a Russian plane at Murted Airport, known as Akinci Air Base, near Ankara, Turkey, July 12, 2019.
Iran has also expressed interest in obtaining other advanced military tech from its partner in crime such as air-defense system S-400, a mobile, surface-to-air missile system. Iran has supplied hundreds of kamikaze drones to Russia that have been used to target Ukraine's military and civilian infrastructure. Moscow denies that its forces use Iranian-built drones in Ukraine, although many have been shot down and recovered there.
Iran’s air force has only a few dozen strike aircraft: Russian jets as well as ageing US models acquired before the Iranian revolution of 1979. Instead, Iran has developed a variety of drones and missiles seen as a threat for other regional countries, especially Israel.
Earlier this week, the Israeli army successfully dropped bunker-busting bombs intended for the destruction of special trenches from its F-35 fighters, the Israeli Channel 14 reported, highlighting it as a clear message to Iran. Israel is the second country in the world after the US to test this capability, according to the report.


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Iran Paid for Su-35 Jets, But Russia Won’t Deliver Them​

Policy


Earlier this month, Brigadier General Hamid Vahedi, Iran’s air force commander, ended weeks of speculation about the imminent delivery Russian Sukhoi Su-35 fighter jets. “Regarding the purchase of Su-35 fighter jets [from Russia], we need them, but we do not know when they will be added to our squadron. This is related to the decision of [Iran’s] high-ranking officials,” he stated in an interview on state TV.
Vahedi's comments sparked speculation about dysfunction in the Russia-Iran partnership, including that Israel had successfully convinced Russia to postpone delivery of the advanced fighter jets to Iran.
While officials in Tehran continue to pursue a partnership with Russia, it is increasingly clear that Russian officials see their relationship with Iran as little more than a card that can be played according to their needs.
Russia’s potential sale of Su-35 jets to Iran has been connected to the deeper military cooperation between the two countries since the Russian invasion of Ukraine in February 2022. Iranian drones are being used by Russian forces to bomb Ukrainian cities. The first drones were transferred from Iran to Russia around one year ago.
But Iran has been waiting for far more than a year to receive the Su-35, which would prove a major upgrade in capabilities for Iran’s aging air force, largely comprised of American jets in service since before the 1979 revolution.
According to one current and one former diplomat with direct knowledge of the matter, Iran made “full payment” for 50 Su-35 fighter jets during the second term of President Hassan Rouhani. The officials requested anonymity given the sensitivity of Iran’s arms purchases. According to the former diplomat, at the time of purchase Russia had promised to deliver the Su-35s in 2023. Neither source expects that the deliveries will be made this year.
A third source, a security official, speaking on background, expressed disappointment that Vahedi’s “uncoordinated interview” had called attention to the fact that the deliveries were now in doubt. Iranian officials feel embarrassment over Russia’s failure to adhere to commitments.
The delay in the delivery could be traced to the strong relationship between Russia and Israel. In June, Axios reported that Israeli officials confronted Russian counterparts over Russia’s growing military cooperation with Iran and the possibility of Russia providing Iran advanced weapon systems. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu disclosed the “open and frank” dialogue with Russian officials in a closed-door hearing with Israeli lawmakers on June 13.
In the view of the former diplomat, due to their arrogance, Iranian hardliners “fell into the trap” of believing that they were an equal partner to Russia, simply because “the Russians are queuing up to buy arms from them.”
The drone transfers have contributed to Iran’s political isolation, giving Western officials the impression of deepening cooperation between Russia and Iran, even as the Iranian Foreign Ministry continues to claim that Iran remains a neutral party in the Ukraine war. According to the security official, neutrality remains the consensus position of the Iran’s Supreme National Security Council, but he warned that country’s military brass may not all share that same view.
Notwithstanding the ambitions of Iranian generals, Russia continues to treat Iran far worse than an ally. Earlier this week, Russia issued a joint statement with the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC), affirming the United Arab Emirate’s claims on three Iranian islands: the Greater Tunb, the Lesser Tunb, and Abu Musa. The statement enraged Iranian officials. Ali Akbar Velayati, a senior advisor to Iran’s Supreme Leader, called Russia’s assent to the statement “a move borne of naivety.” Iran’s foreign minister and its government spokesperson stressed in statements that Iran will not tolerate claims on the three islands from any party. The officials had made such statements before—a China-GCC joint statement from December 2022 caused a similar public outcry.
As Iranian officials are forced to defend their ties with Russia once again, a question remains. Why does Iran have so little leverage over Russia, even after the Russian invasion of Ukraine? The answer lies in the mindset of Iranian officials.
Back in May, Iran’s Supreme Leader, Ali Khamanei, declared that “Dignity in foreign policy means saying no to the diplomacy of begging.” The slogan “diplomacy of begging” has become popular among conservatives and the hardliners, who have used it to condemn the signing of the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) and to accuse former Iranian foreign minister Javad Zarif of begging the West for sanctions relief. But if begging the West for sanctions relief is wrong, why are hardliners eager to beg Russia for the Sukhoi jets?
Tehran’s ties with Moscow were never built on trust. They were built on mutual fears and mutual needs. Were the administration of President Ebrahim Raisi to realize that looking to the West does not preclude political and economic relations with Russia and China, Iran could strengthen its position in the Middle East and regain leverage in its relationship with Russia. Until then, the Russians will continue to look at their relationship with Iran as a nothing more than playing card.

If true then indeed very ominous:-"Vahedi's comments sparked speculation about dysfunction in the Russia-Iran partnership, including that Israel had successfully convinced Russia to postpone delivery of the advanced fighter jets to Iran."

I don't know.

After all, the J35 is still only a Navy carrier aircraft program, and it still hasn't found a suitable partner for the Army model. However, if Pakistan, Iran, and Saudi Arabia are all involved in this program, and regional reconciliation is achieved through this program, that must be what the Chinese would like to see the most. China is, I am afraid, the only major power that genuinely wishes for a great peace in the Middle East countries.

From a Chinese perspective. Although Russia is a powerful partner, its history is characterized by aggression, and its mindset, which loves territorial expansion, is completely different from the Chinese mindset, which loves economic expansion. That's why the Chinese have always maintained a certain degree of vigilance towards Russia.

And the Iranians and the Arabs, we've had trade relations for thousands of years in history. China's Tang Dynasty reached the peak of its national power through Silk Road trade until the Ottoman Turks came along. We haven't had any hatred or harm to each other, so the Chinese have a better view of Iranian Saudi Arabia and other Middle Eastern countries than they do of Russia. We also want general understanding and cooperation with these countries.

Iran needs J20s just like Pakistan , so Iran and Pakistan should invest in increasing Chinese production of J20.

 

[FuturePAF]

I don't know.

After all, the J35 is still only a Navy carrier aircraft program, and it still hasn't found a suitable partner for the Army model. However, if Pakistan, Iran, and Saudi Arabia are all involved in this program, and regional reconciliation is achieved through this program, that must be what the Chinese would like to see the most. China is, I am afraid, the only major power that genuinely wishes for a great peace in the Middle East countries.

From a Chinese perspective. Although Russia is a powerful friend, its history is characterized by aggression, and its mindset, which loves territorial expansion, is completely different from the Chinese mindset, which loves economic expansion. That's why the Chinese have always maintained a certain degree of vigilance towards Russia.

And the Iranians and the Arabs, we've had trade relations for thousands of years in history. China's Tang Dynasty reached the peak of its national power through Silk Road trade until the Ottoman Turks came along. We haven't had any hatred or harm to each other, so the Chinese have a better view of Iranian Saudi Arabia and other Middle Eastern countries than they do of Russia. We also want general understanding and cooperation with these countries.

Perhaps selling an equal number of planes, perhaps 72 to each Saudi and Iran could be a stabilizing move.

Btw, you spoke of the long history in relations between the Persians and Chinese. How does Pakistan, successor in a sense to the Muslim empires of South Asia, such as the Mughals shape perceptions? Mughals did have contact with the Chinese dynasties in charge during their rule, and must have traded along the same Silk Road.

 

[MH.Yang]

Perhaps selling an equal number of planes, perhaps 72 to each Saudi and Iran could be a stabilizing move.

Btw, you spoke of the long history in relations between the Persians and Chinese. How does Pakistan, successor in a sense to the Muslim empires of South Asia, such as the Mughals shape perceptions? Mughals did have contact with the Chinese dynasties in charge during their rule, and must have traded along the same Silk Road.

The friendship between China and Pakistan is on another level. It is above Iran and Saudi Arabia.

As for the Mughal Empire, it was not a country in the ancient Silk Road route. Ordinary Chinese don't know much about this empire, the Himalayas isolate too much.
The only thing the average Chinese usually knows is that on the other side of the Silk Road was the Arab Empire. The Arabs will sell our goods to the Europeans. Until the pesky Ottoman Empire cut off the Silk Road.

 

[Hack-Hook]

When Ashtiani says that there will be a shift in policies, you have to draw your own conclusion. From my POV, It means, we will throw the money at domestic plans.

hope at last they learned the lessons

Possibility of this statement being a hoax to cover the fact of SU-35's actually being delivered to Iran?

no its not being delivered and what is the use of such hoax. the only way that anybody is goimg to deliver us anything is that our domestic projject reach fruitation and they want to gave incentive to traitors and gullible to kill it

The construction of the new heavy fighter officially began in 2020

depend on iran definition of heavy fighter , don't forget we call Moudge a destroyer.
i believe our heavy fighter would be kowsar-2 after our turbo-fan engine become ready

 

[Hack-Hook]

If true then indeed very ominous:-"Vahedi's comments sparked speculation about dysfunction in the Russia-Iran partnership, including that Israel had successfully convinced Russia to postpone delivery of the advanced fighter jets to Iran."


Iran needs J20s just lkike Pakistan , so Iran and Pakistan should invest in increasing Chinese production of J20.

j-20 is China only and remain China only

 

[ReasonableStar75]

The friendship between China and Pakistan is on another level. It is above Iran and Saudi Arabia.

As for the Mughal Empire, it was not a country in the ancient Silk Road route. Ordinary Chinese don't know much about this empire, the Himalayas isolate too much.
The only thing the average Chinese usually knows is that on the other side of the Silk Road was the Arab Empire. The Arabs will sell our goods to the Europeans. Until the pesky Ottoman Empire cut off the Silk Road.

I don t think China loves so much Pakistan.

If a war breaks between Pakistan and India, the most we will see from China is trading some weaponry. That s all.

China only believes in eastern coutnries that China see as own.

 

[ReasonableStar75]

Why would they ? Iran tries to act like boss in Syria and would harm Russia's interests much more than it harms US interests. Iran competes with Russia and China in the ME region and not the US.

Middle east or south west asia is Iran backyard, neither Russia or CHina belongs to it. Iran must be the strongest and reign there forever. Iran must do that with or without Russia or China support, whatever.

 

[MH.Yang]

I don t think China loves so much Pakistan.

If a war breaks between Pakistan and India, the most we will see from China is trading some weaponry. That s all.

China only believes in eastern coutnries that China see as own.

China and Pakistan don't have a military alliance agreement, what will China do if war breaks out between Pakistan and India?

I suggest you refer to what China did in the second Indo-Pakistani war.

The second Indo-Pakistani war broke out in August 1965.On September 7, India launched a massive attack and the Pakistani army suffered a rout in Kashmir before concentrating on the defense of Lahore.

The then President of Pakistan, Ayub Khan, asked China for help. The Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs immediately delivered an ultimatum to the Indian Embassy in Beijing demanding that the Indian government dismantle all fortifications on the border between China and Sikkim within 72 hours.

24 hours later, Chinese troops in the western sector of the border entered Ladakh. Chinese troops in the central sector of the border massed on the Chinese border with Sikkim, and 72 hours later, Chinese troops entered the four passes of Rila, Chola, Dongjula and Nathu La, and destroyed more than fifty Indian fortifications built in these passes. These actions led to the build-up of most of the Indian army's main body towards the Sino-Indian border.

The Chinese army also immediately transferred 200 main battle tanks and all Red Arrow anti-tank missiles from the active equipment of the Tibetan Military Region to Pakistan. This equipment played an important role in the subsequent showdown between the Pakistani and Indian armies.

BTW: Don't treat the Chinese military like idiots with moral cleanliness. Maybe the Chinese army won't be involved in Pakistan and India shelling each other on the border, but China won't allow CPEC to be threatened or Pakistan to perish. When India touches our red line, we can find enough reasons to join the game. We could use the fortifications in Sikkim as a justification in 1965, and we can find a similar justification now. Not all military interventions require military agreements.

The Chinese Govt has always been efficient and perceptive. the shelling of the British fleet in 1949, the attack on the US army in 1950, the attack on the Indian army in 1962, the attack on the Soviet army in 1969, the Chinese Govt has always been able to launch its initiatives at the most opportune time and with the greatest determination and courage. The Chinese army has never been a defensive army.

 

[Sineva]

Russia cares more about the international market for their military industry.

If they did that, their fighter jets would never be sold again.

And China is not willing to undermine the Neutrality Act, we are not willing to sell military equipment to countries involved in the war.

BTW: Iran is the successor to the Persian Empire, which descended from a great civilization. Iranians need to learn to rely on themselves. I suggest that the Iranians take a stake in the JF17 and J35 programs and establish their own fighter manufacturing industry through these two programs.

If the russians still havent yet woken up to the new reality,that the west is now going to do everything within its power to restrict russias ability to sell weapons to anyone,then frankly theres just no helping them.
The days when russia could sell weapons to western vassals are now clearly over,one only has to look at the cost to the turks for the s400 purchase or the cancellation of the su35 deals with egypt and indonesia.
Plus of course,theres the sheer amount of pressure,both political and economic,that the west can bring to bare even on non vassals.
At this point its not simply a matter of russia choosing who it will be selling its weapons to or not,but rather how many nations are there left that are actually politically still willing,and of course financially able,to buy russian weapons.
Time for the russians to wake the fvck up I think.

Then again from irans perspective russia always was reliably unreliable,a day late and a ruble short.So it honestly doesnt look like anything much has changed,for iran at least.

 

[MH.Yang]

If the russians still havent yet woken up to the new reality,that the west is now going to do everything within its power to restrict russias ability to sell weapons to anyone,then frankly theres just no helping them.
The days when russia could sell weapons to western vassals are now clearly over,one only has to look at the cost to the turks for the s400 purchase or the cancellation of the su35 deals with egypt and indonesia.
Plus of course,theres the sheer amount of pressure,both political and economic,that the west can bring to bare even on non vassals.
At this point its not simply a matter of russia choosing who it will be selling its weapons to or not,but rather how many nations are there left that are actually politically still willing,and of course financially able,to buy russian weapons.
Time for the russians to wake the fvck up I think.

Then again from irans perspective russia always was reliably unreliable,a day late and a ruble short.So it honestly doesnt look like anything much has changed,for iran at least.

If the war in Ukraine lasts longer than 10 years, like the war in Syria. Your opinion of Russia would be completely different.
Such a long war can bring back a fallen and corrupt people. This war may become the battle for the redemption of the Eastern Slavic nation, like the Patriotic War of the Soviet Union.

 

[ReasonableStar75]

China and Pakistan don't have a military alliance agreement, what will China do if war breaks out between Pakistan and India?

I suggest you refer to what China did in the second Indo-Pakistani war.

The second Indo-Pakistani war broke out in August 1965.On September 7, India launched a massive attack and the Pakistani army suffered a rout in Kashmir before concentrating on the defense of Lahore.

The then President of Pakistan, Ayub Khan, asked China for help. The Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs immediately delivered an ultimatum to the Indian Embassy in Beijing demanding that the Indian government dismantle all fortifications on the border between China and Sikkim within 72 hours.

24 hours later, Chinese troops in the western sector of the border entered Ladakh. Chinese troops in the central sector of the border massed on the Chinese border with Sikkim, and 72 hours later, Chinese troops entered the four passes of Rila, Chola, Dongjula and Nathu La, and destroyed more than fifty Indian fortifications built in these passes. These actions led to the build-up of most of the Indian army's main body towards the Sino-Indian border.

The Chinese army also immediately transferred 200 main battle tanks and all Red Arrow anti-tank missiles from the active equipment of the Tibetan Military Region to Pakistan. This equipment played an important role in the subsequent showdown between the Pakistani and Indian armies.

BTW: Don't treat the Chinese military like idiots with moral cleanliness. Maybe the Chinese army won't be involved in Pakistan and India shelling each other on the border, but China won't allow CPEC to be threatened or Pakistan to perish. When India touches our red line, we can find enough reasons to join the game. We could use the fortifications in Sikkim as a justification in 1965, and we can find a similar justification now. Not all military interventions require military agreements.

The Chinese Govt has always been efficient and perceptive. the shelling of the British fleet in 1949, the attack on the US army in 1950, the attack on the Indian army in 1962, the attack on the Soviet army in 1969, the Chinese Govt has always been able to launch its initiatives at the most opportune time and with the greatest determination and courage. The Chinese army has never been a defensive army.

You don t give a shit for the rest of the world, China is letting others to die to be the ultimate winner, i have read the art of war, and i know a bit the chinese mindset. But this is delusional, it won t happen.

Pakistan must make endurable peace with India, and let India be a problem for China. Pakistan as a muslim country must look to middle east as reference.

 

[MH.Yang]

You don t give a shit for the rest of the world, China is letting others to die to be the ultimate winner, i have read the art of war, and i know a bit the chinese mindset. But this is delusional, it won t happen.

Pakistan must make endurable peace with India, and let India be a problem for China. Pakistan as a muslim country must look to middle east as reference.

China hasn't been in a war in decades. Many people now forget that pandas are bears and dragons breathe fire.

Since you don't think that gentle panda will aid an ally, the US should immediately go to war with North Korea. That little fat kid in North Korea has humiliated every American president, it's so annoying isn't it?
Why didn't American presidents like Nixon, Johnson, and Kennedy let American troops cross the 17th parallel in Vietnam? These people are so stupid that Americans should have made you President of the United States.

 

[ReasonableStar75]

China hasn't been in a war in decades. Many people now forget that pandas are bears and dragons breathe fire.

Since you don't think that gentle panda will aid an ally, the US should immediately go to war with North Korea. That little fat kid in North Korea has humiliated every American president, it's so annoying isn't it?
Why didn't American presidents like Nixon, Johnson, and Kennedy let American troops cross the 17th parallel in Vietnam? These people are so stupid that Americans should have made you President of the United States.

I don t care about US, i want US in their backyard america. Only that.

I think Russia and CHina are guilty to let the US and other go so far with wars in the world, you had the power to do that, but your ego growed you believed so smart to let other die for you to be champion ultimately, you are delusional.

US does not care about north korea, North Korea is not an important country. US has China where they want in the pacific and just there, without interfering in nothing substantial in the developed world.

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

Why would they ? Iran tries to act like boss in Syria and would harm Russia's interests much more than it harms US interests. Iran competes with Russia and China in the ME region and not the US.

Iran and Russia are allies in the ME and it was Iran who was first on the scene in Syria and it was Iran who got Russia involved in the war. Russia is only concerned about the fight spilling into an Iran-Israel war because it complicates the issue and plays into the hands of the west. The only sphere Iran competes with Russia is for oil and gas sales to China.