PM Hasina plans to build aircraft in the country

[Bilal9]

Sustained growth depends on the wealth accumulation and human development not by any particular sectors. Most of the developed countries dont have any automotive industry which does not mean they are not developed or industrialized. BD is a small country, so we dont need all the sectors or invest in everything. We should focus on the sectors where our strength lies. The biggest strength of BD is the GDCF (gross domestic capital formation) and demographic dividends. I dont see any reason that BD can not grow more than 7-8% for the next 10 years which is more than enough to take us to the upper middle income country of 7000 USD per capita. Then even if we can grow 5-6% we should not have any problem to become a high income country like Turkey.

From the bottom base level - there is no where to go but up....I concur 110%.

As i said before in other thread , Bd need to made progress in manufacturing and heavy industry to boots. Even till now Bd doesnt got proper automotive industry and must relying from importing items.

Well, aircraft industry is good to have but at least put a proper road maps to begin with, beside this news i dont see any articles or such from BD news outlet or the need from Airforce or Bd National flag carrier to order jigs and tools for assembly and major overhaul of aircraft. Not even Bd starting to build major repairing hangar at this moment.

Btw, the largest aerospace industry player in Indonesia by revenue and assets is actually not PTDI, but Garuda Maintenance Facility Aero. With annual revenue almost 500 million US dollar, thus GMF is leader in overhaul, maintenance and repairing Aircraft industry in ASEAN. The most successful services of them is to repairing and maintenance engines components and block.

View attachment 489753 View attachment 489754 View attachment 489755 View attachment 489756 View attachment 489757

I laud your brave effort to present a great progressive picture of Indonesia, but I have personally been to Indonesia (Jakarta) and have many close friends from there and speak passable Bahasa Indonesia as well. I know your culture closely, and have observed the ground reality from a Becak (rickshaw) driver's point of view on the ground.

There are teeming suffering millions in Indonesia just like there are in Bangladesh. You get past the main cities, situation is the same like Bangladesh....open sewers, slums....lack of living wage jobs, same deal.

There are many sectors in Indonesia that need a lot of improvement. To start with, your leader H.E. Joko Widodo should concentrate on the air transport sector, which is notoriously unsafe. It is all I think about when I travel in Indonesia. Typically I will try to fly Garuda only.

I know both our countries face issues - but its silly to brand one as marginally better than the other. It's like one beggar claiming that his shirt has less stains than the other beggar.

Indonesia's GDP may be higher but on the ground you would not really feel it's that much better except on some glitzy Jakarta thoroughfares, the income disparity between the have and have nots is a W..I..D..E chasm. I thought it is almost on par with how India is on non-inclusive development for women and minorities.

Indonesia is also a powder keg of differences just waiting to explode between multiple tribes and ethnicities.

Before claiming high tech aerospace honors like you've outlined, saving lives and basic steps needed to ensure air travel safety for the traveling Indonesians should come first. This is a friendly observation and not mudslinging.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/indone...west-in-world-for-safety-20160106-gm0hx4.html

 

[Nike]

Fool, Indonesia growth is going down while BD is going up.

Indonesia looks like becoming the next Brazil and we should expect growth of around 3-4% a year average for the next 25 years( i shall use 4% to be generous).
BD growth is only accelerating and we should expect it to hold steady at 8% a year average at least for the next 25 years(I shall use only 8% to make it harder for BD).


So let us do the math then at PPP(take 1% away for pop. growth in each country).

BD: 4.6K * 1.07^25 = 25K per capita PPP

IND: 12.4 * 1.03^25 = 25K per capita PPP

You are one butt-hurt at BD idiot.

Your prophecy is as good as Bd willingness to deal with border incursion of Myanmar Army and Air forces recently.

From the bottom base level - there is no where to go but up....I concur 110%.



I laud your brave effort to present a great progressive picture of Indonesia, but I have personally been to Indonesia (Jakarta) and have many close friends from there and speak passable Bahasa Indonesia as well. I know your culture closely, and have observed the ground reality from a Becak (rickshaw) driver's point of view on the ground.

There are teeming suffering millions in Indonesia just like there are in Bangladesh. You get past the main cities, situation is the same like Bangladesh....open sewers, slums....lack of living wage jobs, same deal.

There are many sectors in Indonesia that need a lot of improvement. To start with, your leader H.E. Joko Widodo should concentrate on the air transport sector, which is notoriously unsafe. It is all I think about when I travel in Indonesia. Typically I will try to fly Garuda only.

I know both our countries face issues - but its silly to brand one as marginally better than the other. It's like one beggar claiming that his shirt has less stains than the other beggar.

Before claiming high tech aerospace honors like you've outlined, saving lives and basic steps needed to ensure air travel safety for the traveling Indonesians should come first. This is a friendly observation and not mudslinging.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/indone...west-in-world-for-safety-20160106-gm0hx4.html

To said you had been visited Jakarta, but not knowing Rickshaw had been banned in Jakarta for decades. It LoL.

In reality all of small and prefectural cities in Indonesia is decent build with Netherland Indies heritage planning methods. The largest urban problem in reality happened in all of Major Cities in Indonesia and the worst is Jakarta. But just for the record, even at worst Jakarta is miles times better compared to Dhaka with the level of war torn Cities liveability index, comparable to most destroyed cities on frontline like Aleppo, Kabul or Addis Ababa.


2016? Now 2018 and European Air Safety commision had declared Indonesia Air Services is safe for flying.

 

[Nilgiri]

Are you aware that over the last 2 years, BD tax collection has gone up by at least 20% each year?
This is a direct result of taxes reforms the government has brought in.
Game changer for BD as revenue crunch is coming to an end.

You forget that increased govt tax revenue has little to do with BD paltry foreign investment outflow....given that is more dictated by poor performing private sector and banking system. There is a reason why Pakistan does lot better than BD on it even though they have been beset by internal conflict.

BD has this nasty dissonance between stats sourced locally and those that can be 3rd party verified (i.e trade, foreign investment in both directions, energy consumption, socioeconomic performance of BD people residing in other countries etc).

Till this dissonance goes away and/or BD achieves SDDS category, it can self-publish whatever claims it wants for GDP, GDP growth, inflation, revenue etc etc.

A 4 yr old can after all scribble a PhD certificate on a piece of paper with his crayon...and run around the room yelling and screaming with its achievement, while tea is being served in the study upstairs for the people that actually matter. Does not mean the kid will be taken seriously by the latter.

From the bottom base level - there is no where to go but up....I concur 110%.



I laud your brave effort to present a great progressive picture of Indonesia, but I have personally been to Indonesia (Jakarta) and have many close friends from there and speak passable Bahasa Indonesia as well. I know your culture closely, and have observed the ground reality from a Becak (rickshaw) driver's point of view on the ground.

There are teeming suffering millions in Indonesia just like there are in Bangladesh. You get past the main cities, situation is the same like Bangladesh....open sewers, slums....lack of living wage jobs, same deal.

There are many sectors in Indonesia that need a lot of improvement. To start with, your leader H.E. Joko Widodo should concentrate on the air transport sector, which is notoriously unsafe. It is all I think about when I travel in Indonesia. Typically I will try to fly Garuda only.

I know both our countries face issues - but its silly to brand one as marginally better than the other. It's like one beggar claiming that his shirt has less stains than the other beggar.

Indonesia's GDP may be higher but on the ground you would not really feel it's that much better except on some glitzy Jakarta thoroughfares, the income disparity between the have and have nots is a W..I..D..E chasm. I thought it is almost on par with how India is on non-inclusive development for women and minorities.

Indonesia is also a powder keg of differences just waiting to explode between multiple tribes and ethnicities.

Before claiming high tech aerospace honors like you've outlined, saving lives and basic steps needed to ensure air travel safety for the traveling Indonesians should come first. This is a friendly observation and not mudslinging.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/indone...west-in-world-for-safety-20160106-gm0hx4.html

Man this guy really has some issue with Indonesia. First that fake claim he had of the bribe list posted in every police office and now all this butthurt.

@pr1v4t33r @Logam42 @Svantana @trishna_amṛta

BTW @Mage look at this guy again making hostilities with Indonesia for no reason. Just 1 member posting her opinions on a subject and he gets this triggered.

but its silly to brand one as marginally better than the other. It's like one beggar claiming that his shirt has less stains than the other beggar.

Yes it is silly to brand Indonesia as marginally better than BD, when its a LOT better.

And keep the beggar analogy to your own country, Indonesia is nowhere near it for long time now.

 

[Logam42]

*Pops in*

S'up @Nilgiri , you called?

*Sees @Bilal9 *

Oh... I really just consider that guy unimportant. No one that matters believes him anyway.

Despite that, to anyone reading other than him. Here is a quick discussion of his claims:

On Indonesian Air Safety

EU lifts air ban on all Indonesian airlines

EU Air Safety List, the list of airlines that do not meet international safety standards, and are therefore subject to an operating ban or operational restrictions within the European Union. Following today's update, all airlines certified in Indonesia are cleared from the list, following further improvements to the aviation safety situation that was ascertained in the country.

The European Commissioner for Transport Violeta Bulc said: "The EU Air Safety List is one of our main instruments to continuously offer the highest level of air safety to Europeans. I am particularly glad that after years of work, we are today able to clear all air carriers from Indonesia. It shows that hard work and close cooperation pay off. "

The EU Ambassador to Indonesia Vincent Guérend said: "Congratulations to our Indonesian partners, especially the Ministry of Transport and Indonesia's airlines, for the great work they have done in addressing the air safety issues."

All Indonesian carriers were put on the EU Air Safety List in 2007 due to unaddressed safety concerns. Over the past years, the main carriers (Garuda Indonesia, Airfast Indonesia, Ekspres Transportasi Antarbenua, Indonesia Air Asia, Citilink, Lion Air and Batik Air) were removed, but the remaining Indonesian carriers were still on the list until today.

The EU Air Safety List seeks to ensure the highest level of air safety for European citizens, which is a top priority of the EU's Aviation Strategy. The EU Air Safety List not only helps to maintain high levels of safety in the EU, but it also helps affected countries to improve their levels of safety, in order for them to eventually be taken off the list. In addition, the EU Air Safety List has become a major preventive tool, as it motivates countries with safety problems to act upon them before a ban under the EU Air Safety List would become necessary.

Background Information

Today's update of the Air Safety List is based on the unanimous opinion of the aviation safety experts from the EU Member States who met from 29 to 31 May within the EU Air Safety Committee (ASC). This Committee is chaired by the European Commission with the support of the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA). The update equally got the support from the European Parliament's Transport Committee. Assessment is made against international safety standards, and notably the standards promulgated by the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO).

So yes, Indonesia has greatly improved our air safety in the last decade. At least, the EU believes so. Whether or not they are a 'competent' 3rd party is up to you to decide. Indonesia has improved greatly and continues to improve.

After all, there is a reason why @Bilal9 had to cite a 2016 article: We've improved so much since then.

On Internal Tensions and Political Violence

... Indonesia has seen a huge decrease in violent trends over the last decade. I'd prefer Indonesia not to be considered only 'marginally better' than Bangladesh. Especially in light of this:

Five years of political violence: 1,028 deaths and 52,000 injuries
Fazlur Rahman Raju

• Published at 02:03 am November 20th, 2017
• Last updated at 12:17 am November 21st, 2017

In the 2014 presidential elections, we did not have deaths due to election violence, although violent incidents occurred. Please do not try to lecture Indonesia about political violence when Bangladesh is in the state it currently is.

 

[Nike]

You forget that increased govt tax revenue has little to do with BD paltry foreign investment outflow....given that is more dictated by poor performing private sector and banking system. There is a reason why Pakistan does lot better than BD on it even though they have been beset by internal conflict.

BD has this nasty dissonance between stats sourced locally and those that can be 3rd party verified (i.e trade, foreign investment in both directions, energy consumption, socioeconomic performance of BD people residing in other countries etc).

Till this dissonance goes away and/or BD achieves SDDS category, it can self-publish whatever claims it wants for GDP, GDP growth, inflation, revenue etc etc.

A 4 yr old can after all scribble a PhD certificate on a piece of paper with his crayon...and run around the room yelling and screaming with its achievement, while tea is being served in the study upstairs for the people that actually matter. Does not mean the kid will be taken seriously by the latter.



Man this guy really has some issue with Indonesia. First that fake claim he had of the bribe list posted in every police office and now all this butthurt.

@pr1v4t33r @Logam42 @Svantana @trishna_amṛta

BTW @Mage look at this guy again making hostilities with Indonesia for no reason. Just 1 member posting her opinions on a subject and he gets this triggered.



Yes it is silly to brand Indonesia as marginally better than BD, when its a LOT better.

And keep the beggar analogy to your own country, Indonesia is nowhere near it for long time now.

You know what, even when our country is in the most vulnerable state (1965/1998) our people never seeks asylum in large number toward Australia, Europe or North America like Bd people (its happened till today, when their economy supposedly growing at 7 percent rate) and begging for easy life there. Instead we go to Middle East, Malaysia, South Korea, Japan or Taiwan for whatever hardjob available and learn a thing or two from them, the mentality between both countries people is very different.

 

[Nilgiri]

*Pops in*

S'up @Nilgiri , you called?

*Sees @Bilal9 *

Oh... I really just consider that guy unimportant. No one that matters believes him anyway.

Despite that, to anyone reading other than him. Here is a quick discussion of his claims:

On Indonesian Air Safety


So yes, Indonesia has greatly improved our air safety in the last decade. At least, the EU believes so. Whether or not they are a 'competent' 3rd party is up to you to decide. Indonesia has improved greatly and continues to improve.

After all, there is a reason why @Bilal9 had to cite a 2016 article: We've improved so much since then.

On Internal Tensions and Political Violence

... Indonesia has seen a huge decrease in violent trends over the last decade. I'd prefer Indonesia not to be considered only 'marginally better' than Bangladesh. Especially in light of this:

In the 2014 presidential elections, we did not have deaths due to election violence, although violent incidents occurred. Please do not try to lecture Indonesia about political violence when Bangladesh is in the state it currently is.

Yah back when we were on somewhat speaking terms, he would tell me back in the 1970s or whatever Bangladesh was running "jetliner aircraft" only and then posted picture of a turboprop aircraft indian airlines used on some scheduled routes, in attempt to mock and feel better about the vast chasm in aviation sector between both currently.

It made me chuckle because who nitpicks about what things were like in still-developing countries like 40 years ago?..for each small perceived head start in something, another had one somewhere else...given everyone is basically starting close to zero and its early days etc.

But the real zinger was he didnt quite realise turboprop is a jet engine too lol (he thought it was some old antique regular prop a/c)....and they are used frequently today as well.

Anyways Indonesia is obviously improving as the issues at hand earlier were addressed sequentially and logically as would be with all developing countries going through the process. No one is perfect, just flaws are easier to find with those that are more open and honest about the problem at hand.

Unfortunately in South Asia, the ego/results ratio is very high compared to lot of the world, so those that are furthest behind on whatever are often the ones barking the most about others (esp those perceived as near-peers) being bad to feel better about local scenarios.

 

[doorstar]

I wonder what 'the beautiful one' would do if there was no such thing as LDC status and related benefits

The international support measures associated with LDC status are related to trade preferences, development financing, including Official Development Assistance, debt relief, technical assistance and other forms of support.

LDCs that are members of the World Trade Organization (WTO) benefit from special and differential treatment regarding WTO-related obligations.

 

[Śakra]

You know what, even when our country is in the most vulnerable state (1965/1998) our people never seeks asylum in large number toward Australia, Europe or North America like Bd people (its happened till today, when their economy supposedly growing at 7 percent rate) and begging for easy life there. Instead we go to Middle East, Malaysia, South Korea, Japan or Taiwan for whatever hardjob available and learn a thing or two from them, the mentality between both countries people is very different.

All they can do is dream to escape reality. dhaka has a lower living standard than Aleppo!

 

[doorstar]

All they can do is dream to escape reality. dhaka has a lower living standard than Aleppo!

and the style of their debating skills is out of this world, you ask them a question about item A, they'll respond about item Z, beautifully illustrated in this video (if you can understand Urdu)

 

[Śakra]

I wonder what 'the beautiful one' would do if there was no such thing as LDC status and related benefits

Beauty is relative. In their desh, she is considered thr most beautiful person in the country.

 

[doorstar]

Beauty is relative. In their desh, she is considered thr most beautiful person in the country.

I was just sort of using translation of her Urdu name which literally means beautiful woman

https://ur.oxforddictionaries.com/translate/urdu-english/حسینہ

 

[Śakra]

I was just sort of using translation of her Urdu name which literally means beautiful woman

https://ur.oxforddictionaries.com/translate/urdu-english/حسینہ

I know we’ve all made jokes about that here. Ask @django how haseena Haseena really is to them.

 

[Gibbs]

LOL, which country has ever maintained 7 percent PPP per capita growth for 25 years at the low energy consumption and foreign investment level Bangladesh stagnancy trends right now?...even ignoring the GDDS inflation addition that has been pointed out by the 4% long term growth for BD (harvard study).

and then you put equivalent year for BD at 4.6k and Indonesia at 12.4k?

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD?locations=BD-ID

In 2017, BD was 3.8k and Indonesia was 12.2 k. Indonesia is growing at 5.4% for last 5 years. BD 7% growth is only because of low base effect, it will not continue or sustain at that rate to compound for the aforementioned reasons (inflation, GDDS standard yoke catching up, miniscule energy consumption and paltry foreign investment + continued high atrocious taxes and duties on basic manufacturing capital goods like @Michael Corleone can vouch for).

When BD reaches around 4.6k in 3 years time (if it holds), Indonesia will have reached 14.3k.

What further adds to the disparity is how much BD is able to muster to invest outside its borders (very important at this stage for growth model of using technology,acquisition, natural resource stakes like IND,INA,China, Asian tiger model etc...:

http://unctad.org/sections/dite_dir/docs/wir2018/wir18_fs_bd_en.pdf

http://unctad.org/sections/dite_dir/docs/wir2018/wir18_fs_in_en.pdf

http://unctad.org/sections/dite_dir/docs/wir2018/wir18_fs_id_en.pdf

BD 2017 (right now) = 170 million dollars outward investment

To try put other two closer to BD right now in PPP level:

India 2005 (12 years ago) = 11.5 billion USD

Indonesia 2005 (12 years ago) = 3.5 billion USD

I will let you figure out that per capita and how far you are behind. It is like your olympics performance as a country. This is why you will be stuck in a low income trap pretty soon (LDC quota expiration will only make it worse), forget arguing about middle income trap for Indonesia or anyone else.

Your internal FDI stock is actually stagnant too this early in your stockpiling (indicating heavy depreciation and collateral attrition thanks to your loan-dependence).

So you aren't going to make any much headway in even legacy industries and services...forget approaching any frontier ones.

Its like a malnourished BD pole vaulting illegal saying it will be entering world strong man competition in 10 years time like his proposed claimed peers did already 10 years back. You actually have to prove a lot first....a very long road to go....and the crucial trends (your effective throw-weight mass internationally at your claimed strength level) do not look good at all...posing serious questions to even your claimed strength level in the end (as the M A Taslim article has shown regarding inflation making up most of the claimed growth).

@Marine Rouge @Gibbs @bluesky @Aung Zaya

Mate i see a correlation between curry powder and delusion.. Working for hours as kitchen hands in "Indian" curry houses in London or LA and breathing in all that Masala probably get these pissheads delusions of grandeur, Now even Indonesians and Chinese are at the receiving end of it... Entertainment unlimited this sub forum is ..

Check this thread out

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chinese-bank-to-lend-3-6-billion-to-turkey-albayrak.569811/

@haidian @Offshore

 

[Logam42]

Yah back when we were on somewhat speaking terms, he would tell me back in the 1970s or whatever Bangladesh was running "jetliner aircraft" only and then posted picture of a turboprop aircraft indian airlines used on some scheduled routes, in attempt to mock and feel better about the vast chasm in aviation sector between both currently.

It made me chuckle because who nitpicks about what things were like in still-developing countries like 40 years ago?..for each small perceived head start in something, another had one somewhere else...given everyone is basically starting close to zero and its early days etc.

But the real zinger was he didnt quite realise turboprop is a jet engine too lol (he thought it was some old antique regular prop a/c)....and they are used frequently today as well.

Anyways Indonesia is obviously improving as the issues at hand earlier were addressed sequentially and logically as would be with all developing countries going through the process. No one is perfect, just flaws are easier to find with those that are more open and honest about the problem at hand.

Unfortunately in South Asia, the ego/results ratio is very high compared to lot of the world, so those that are furthest behind on whatever are often the ones barking the most about others (esp those perceived as near-peers) being bad to feel better about local scenarios.

Well... I'll just say that at the rate its currently going, by 2030 Papua New Guinea will be pointing to Indonesia's West Papua and saying "Papa Australia, why are THEY doing so well??? You always say that they are being genocided, but now they are so much more advanced and safer than us, why?"

I can probably write a 5 page rant about the hypocrisy Australia feeds to its protectorates. Hopefully Timor Leste won't make the same mistakes PNG did and not turn into a failed state. The last time Timor Leste became a problem Australia made us 'handle' the problem, force us to bleed cash and blood, and then stab us in the back the moment communism was no longer a threat.

There are a lot of reasonable Bangladeshi people on this forum. Sadly, @Bilal9 isn't one of them.

 

[Bilal9]

Now this thread is full of malcontent slum-trolls from all corners of the subcontinent offering their garbage OT opinion.

My suggestion, just pound a path to the door...

Obviously you trolls have nothing worth value to contribute other than OT comments.

So scram.

Waste of everyone's friggin' time.