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Panama leak Case Proceedings - JIT Report, News, Updates And Discussion

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Yes... ThankGod for this... Tht NS cant interfere in the appointment of CJ, unlike appointment of COAS... I think COAS ke liye bhi yehi procedure hona chahye ht senior most becomes COAS.. Aaj Gen Ashfaq Nadeem hotay...because he was senior most after Gen Zubair Hayat, who is our CJCSC
He will do that if he survives this time.... Do not underestimate the power of the Godfather!

I think the selection of COAS should be done by the army and none other.
 
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Folks here was the start of the downfall of jamhoori Pakistan as a nation:

@Farah Sohail @Guvera @mingle @war&peace @Imad.Khan @Boomin' Bomber I.J. @notorious_eagle


:lol::lol: Jamhooryat ke alambardar :lol:

He should have been in jail by now, for corruption, treason, but he still is the PM, thanks to NROs and deals... When will our system of NRO ever change? :(

After the fate of dawn leaks...i am seriously worried abt panama JIT... I dont have doubt abt honesty and intentions of most HIT members...but the instituitions which have to cooperate with JIT...unhon ne dawn leaks ki historic settlement ke baad surely "hawaaoun ka rukh" dekh liya hoga... This settlement/NRO of dawn leaks will have consequences for panama JIT too...
 
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He should have been in jail by now, for corruption, treason, but he still is the PM, thanks to NROs and deals... When will our system of NRO ever change? :(
Until the approach of our establishment changes. They have nothing to do with Islam and patriotism. If you get the chance to look into their dark lives, you will realise this bitter reality.
 
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Until the approach of our establishment changes. They have nothing to do with Islam and patriotism. If you get the chance to look into their dark lives, you will realise this bitter reality.

Sad but true...
 
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As much as I want to avoid discussing Dawn Leaks, I find myself indulged in this topic.

When PA rejected the notification of an elected PM, there was only one of the five options remained with either party.

1 - Bajwa resigns;
2 - Bajwa is fired (along with many Corps Commanders and DG ISPR);
3 - Nawaz resigns;
4 - Nawaz is fired along with the whole cabinet/ constitution; or
5 - Army retreats and takes back the tweet.

It was a grave mistake on part of Army, which underestimated the power of Godfather. In the past 30 years, he and his family, through extended relations and business interests, have not only gained unprecedented power within the country, but outside of the country as well.

Let me give you all, a little background of when and how it all started. In 1970s, when ZAB started nationalization of industries, and didn't touch the landlords, many people either left the country, or started hating the state of Pakistan. One of such families included Mian Shareef's, which grew hate at an enormous pace against the state of Pakistan. It was a foolish mistake from ZAB (I call it a crime against the state of Pakistan) when Pakistan's economy on the basis of electrical/ mechanical/ electronics industries was about to take-off. Had he not taken that criminal step, We would have been comparing ourselves with Malaysia by now. A lot of investors trust on the state was badly shattered, and they took the remaining money with them to foreign countries and many of them are now extremely successful industrialists. For them, Pakistan ceased to exist in 70s.

So coming back to the story, Shareef family was one of those families, that vowed to take back everything that they lost, by hook or by crook. They developed this extreme hate against the state and specially its institutions, which didn't take any action against this unconstitutional step.

Then with the help of our dear Army, they started taking back what they lost. But since they developed this thinking that they don't have to give back anything to the state until they get back what they lost in nationalization (with lost profit in those years). For them, Zakat was the only responsibility. Slowly, this turned into greed of having more and more. In the process, they started developing relationships with Army generals, bureaucrats and other powerful personalities. Once they were successful in getting important ministry of finance, all their hurdles were removed and they got access to the influential GCC countries. With access to unlimited amount of money they had due to being in the government, they started sending the government money to GCC through illegal channels. If anyone objected or found out about their marathon of remittances sent to GCC countries, they either paid huge money, or removed the guy by either killing him, or involving him in false cases. With establishment in one hand and bureaucracy in another, these crooks took huge benefit of their unique position they were enjoying in Pakistan. In 80s, the banking controls were also very weak due to the money being sent and received in connection with Afghan Jihad.

Since in Shareefs' minds, making money through illegal channels was their right (due to what state did to them in 70s), they didn't let any opportunity go away. By that time, they fed so much money to the national and international "friends" that these friends were ready to go to any extent if any help is required by the Shareefs anytime. Shareefs even didn't spare OBL and other religious extremists as for them, they could prove to be their assets in future, if required.

Establishment slowly started realizing that the snakelet has been converted into a Python, and that too extremely poisonous. When Musharraf ousted second government of Shareefs, he wouldn't have survived the international pressure had it not been the plan of US to attack Afghanistan. US neither helped NS in regaining the government, nor he stopped GCC from taking the family abroad to be sent back to Pakistan only after the major offensive in Afghanistan is over. Musharraf couldn't handle the pressure of GCC countries and sent him to KSA. Even if he decided to hang him on hijacking charges, he couldn't have done it.

Musharraf's action created another wave of hate, but this time against the establishment. The whole family thought about how to neutralize this threat in Pakistan, so that establishment is not able to take any action against them when they return to Pakistan for another episode of looting spree. They thought and decided that if they are somehow able to engage the forces, the threat from them acting against Shareef's government will be effectively neutralized. The best step was to develop business relationships with Indians, and assure them that Shareefs are ready to serve their interests against Pakistan if Indians also guarantee saving their interests at the crucial moments. Indians agreed, Shareefs gained enormous power through both of their friends and foes. The second strategy was that to bury Pakistan under huge amount of debt that will make it difficult to set aside adequate percentage of budget for defense without lending more money, thus effectively making our forces dependent on loans which aren't easy to obtain without government's involvement.

Now Shareefs have the full support of the following:

1 - Indians (Afghanistan comes with them for free)
2 - GCC (specially Qatar and KSA) and US
3 - Rogue internal elements who happen to be very powerful criminals in the guise of religious extremists
4 - Most of the bureaucracy and institutions
5 - Many of the judges in all the courts, from civil to SC
6 - Religious Scholars, such as Fazl ur Rahman and the likes
7 - Few Chinese investors, who like to win the business through commissions rather than through transparent awards
8 - Opposition parties (except very few, like PTI, JI and Sh. Rasheed)
9 - World lending bodies, such as IMF and World Bank, who like the fact that Shareefs have taken so many loans on their favorable terms. Shareefs even have installed some of their officers in these institutions (like Ishaq Dar in ADB)

When PA first sent the message to Shareefs that they will not bow to the pressure and will arrest the culprits, it was a hogwash. They assumed that Shareefs will eventually give in and PA will gain some lost ground against this Godfather. However, their all calculations proved wrong when NS decided to fire the chief and many other CCs. India/ Afghanistan and Iran (another Indian proxy) started pressurizing PA from all sides. Our friends (KSA and Turkey included) also made it clear to PA that after any unconstitutional step, Pakistan will become effectively isolated (and dream of India will come true).

Now let's look at the options that PA had once again.

1 - Bajwa resigns;
2 - Bajwa is fired (along with many Corps Commanders and DG ISPR);
3 - Nawaz resigns;
4 - Nawaz is fired along with the whole cabinet/ constitution; or
5 - Army retreats and takes back the tweet.

The first two would have been extremely demoralizing for Army and the nation. Any new chief would have been a pet of NS.

# 3, NS wasn't in the mood of this. If he had done it, it would have meant disastrous for his daughter and he wouldn't have gained the martyrdom for the next elections. Panama JIT would have become ineffective after his resignation.

# 4, NS really wanted this.. He knew that Bajwa and PA will not be able to sustain the financial as well as moral pressure from our friends, and PA will eventually announce the elections on international pressure.

The only way (through which Pakistan was being saved) was #5 and supporting JIT in Panama in the background and leave it to Allah swt.

NS is extremely powerful.. more than what we think. He is more than a mafia. Mafias usually don't have public support, they don't have international support as well. NS in enjoying both in addition to the unlimited wealth he has accumulated over the past several years.

Now after reading above, can anyone of you think of another option that would have been better than what has been taken?

@Farah Sohail @war&peace @Verve @Realistic Change @Guvera @El_Swordsmen @El Sidd @Dil Pakistan
 
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As much as I want to avoid discussing Dawn Leaks, I find myself indulged in this topic.

When PA rejected the notification of an elected PM, there was only one of the five options remained with either party.

1 - Bajwa resigns;
2 - Bajwa is fired (along with many Corps Commanders and DG ISPR);
3 - Nawaz resigns;
4 - Nawaz is fired along with the whole cabinet/ constitution; or
5 - Army retreats and takes back the tweet.

It was a grave mistake on part of Army, which underestimated the power of Godfather. In the past 30 years, he and his family, through extended relations and business interests, have not only gained unprecedented power within the country, but outside of the country as well.

Let me give you all, a little background of when and how it all started. In 1970s, when ZAB started nationalization of industries, and didn't touch the landlords, many people either left the country, or started hating the state of Pakistan. One of such families included Mian Shareef's, which grew hate at an enormous pace against the state of Pakistan. It was a foolish mistake from ZAB (I call it a crime against the state of Pakistan) when Pakistan's economy on the basis of electrical/ mechanical/ electronics industries was about to take-off. Had he not taken that criminal step, We would have been comparing ourselves with Malaysia by now. A lot of investors trust on the state was badly shattered, and they took the remaining money with them to foreign countries and many of them are now extremely successful industrialists. For them, Pakistan ceased to exist in 70s.

So coming back to the story, Shareef family was one of those families, that vowed to take back everything that they lost, by hook or by crook. They developed this extreme hate against the state and specially its institutions, which didn't take any action against this unconstitutional step.

Then with the help of our dear Army, they started taking back what they lost. But since they developed this thinking that they don't have to give back anything to the state until they get back what they lost in nationalization (with lost profit in those years). For them, Zakat was the only responsibility. Slowly, this turned into greed of having more and more. In the process, they started developing relationships with Army generals, bureaucrats and other powerful personalities. Once they were successful in getting important ministry of finance, all their hurdles were removed and they got access to the influential GCC countries. With access to unlimited amount of money they had due to being in the government, they started sending the government money to GCC through illegal channels. If anyone objected or found out about their marathon of remittances sent to GCC countries, they either paid huge money, or removed the guy by either killing him, or involving him in false cases. With establishment in one hand and bureaucracy in another, these crooks took huge benefit of their unique position they were enjoying in Pakistan. In 80s, the banking controls were also very weak due to the money being sent and received in connection with Afghan Jihad.

Since in Shareefs' minds, making money through illegal channels was their right (due to what state did to them in 70s), they didn't let any opportunity go away. By that time, they fed so much money to the national and international "friends" that these friends were ready to go to any extent if any help is required by the Shareefs anytime. Shareefs even didn't spare OBL and other religious extremists as for them, they could prove to be their assets in future, if required.

Establishment slowly started realizing that the snakelet has been converted into a Python, and that too extremely poisonous. When Musharraf ousted second government of Shareefs, he wouldn't have survived the international pressure had it not been the plan of US to attack Afghanistan. US neither helped NS in regaining the government, nor he stopped GCC from taking the family abroad to be sent back to Pakistan only after the major offensive in Afghanistan is over. Musharraf couldn't handle the pressure of GCC countries and sent him to KSA. Even if he decided to hang him on hijacking charges, he couldn't have done it.

Musharraf's action created another wave of hate, but this time against the establishment. The whole family thought about how to neutralize this threat in Pakistan, so that establishment is not able to take any action against them when they return to Pakistan for another episode of looting spree. They thought and decided that if they are somehow able to engage the forces, the threat from them acting against Shareef's government will be effectively neutralized. The best step was to develop business relationships with Indians, and assure them that Shareefs are ready to serve their interests against Pakistan if Indians also guarantee saving their interests at the crucial moments. Indians agreed, Shareefs gained enormous power through both of their friends and foes. The second strategy was that to bury Pakistan under huge amount of debt that will make it difficult to set aside adequate percentage of budget for defense without lending more money, thus effectively making our forces dependent on loans which aren't easy to obtain without government's involvement.

Now Shareefs have the full support of the following:

1 - Indians (Afghanistan comes with them for free)
2 - GCC (specially Qatar and KSA) and US
3 - Rogue internal elements who happen to be very powerful criminals in the guise of religious extremists
4 - Most of the bureaucracy and institutions
5 - Many of the judges in all the courts, from civil to SC
6 - Religious Scholars, such as Fazl ur Rahman and the likes
7 - Few Chinese investors, who like to win the business through commissions rather than through transparent awards
8 - Opposition parties (except very few, like PTI, JI and Sh. Rasheed)
9 - World lending bodies, such as IMF and World Bank, who like the fact that Shareefs have taken so many loans on their favorable terms. Shareefs even have installed some of their officers in these institutions (like Ishaq Dar in ADB)

When PA first sent the message to Shareefs that they will not bow to the pressure and will arrest the culprits, it was a hogwash. They assumed that Shareefs will eventually give in and PA will gain some lost ground against this Godfather. However, their all calculations proved wrong when NS decided to fire the chief and many other CCs. India/ Afghanistan and Iran (another Indian proxy) started pressurizing PA from all sides. Our friends (KSA and Turkey included) also made it clear to PA that after any unconstitutional step, Pakistan will become effectively isolated (and dream of India will come true).

Now let's look at the options that PA had once again.

1 - Bajwa resigns;
2 - Bajwa is fired (along with many Corps Commanders and DG ISPR);
3 - Nawaz resigns;
4 - Nawaz is fired along with the whole cabinet/ constitution; or
5 - Army retreats and takes back the tweet.

The first two would have been extremely demoralizing for Army and the nation. Any new chief would have been a pet of NS.

# 3, NS wasn't in the mood of this. If he had done it, it would have meant disastrous for his daughter and he wouldn't have gained the martyrdom for the next elections. Panama JIT would have become ineffective after his resignation.

# 4, NS really wanted this.. He knew that Bajwa and PA will not be able to sustain the financial as well as moral pressure from our friends, and PA will eventually announce the elections on international pressure.

The only way (through which Pakistan was being saved) was #5 and supporting JIT in Panama in the background and leave it on Allah swt.

NS is extremely powerful.. more than we think. He is more than a mafia. Mafias don't have public support, they don't have international support as well. NS in enjoying both in addition to the unlimited wealth he has accumulated over the past several years.

Now after reading above, can anyone of you think of another option that would have been better than what has been taken?

@Farah Sohail @war&peace @Verve @Realistic Change @Guvera @El_Swordsmen @El Sidd @Dil Pakistan

Thanks.

If all this is true, particularly related to last 8-months then; can we anticipate what JIT and then SC will do?
 
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Thanks.

If all this is true, particularly related to last 8-months then; can we anticipate what JIT and then SC will do?

Very difficult for the JIT.. But they are trying.. with whatever they have in terms of laws, access rights etc..

That's why I wrote.. Leave it to Allah swt.. He (swt) has finished many Pharaohs, Namroods, Qaroons.. He (swt) may do it again..
 
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Thanks.

If all this is true, particularly related to last 8-months then; can we anticipate what JIT and then SC will do?

Godfather analogy wasn't used without a reason in the verdict.. Justice Khosa and Justice Gulzar knew who they were up against..

Only one more judge was required.. only one.. uss ne himmat hi nahi pakri.. aur Pakistan jeeta hua match extra time main le gaya..
 
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Now let's look at the options that PA had once again.

1 - Bajwa resigns;
2 - Bajwa is fired (along with many Corps Commanders and DG ISPR);
3 - Nawaz resigns;
4 - Nawaz is fired along with the whole cabinet/ constitution; or
5 - Army retreats and takes back the tweet.

The first two would have been extremely demoralizing for Army and the nation. Any new chief would have been a pet of NS.

# 3, NS wasn't in the mood of this. If he had done it, it would have meant disastrous for his daughter and he wouldn't have gained the martyrdom for the next elections. Panama JIT would have become ineffective after his resignation.

# 4, NS really wanted this.. He knew that Bajwa and PA will not be able to sustain the financial as well as moral pressure from our friends, and PA will eventually announce the elections on international pressure.

The only way (through which Pakistan was being saved) was #5 and supporting JIT in Panama in the background and leave it on Allah swt.

NS is extremely powerful.. more than we think. He is more than a mafia. Mafias don't have public support, they don't have international support as well. NS in enjoying both in addition to the unlimited wealth he has accumulated over the past several years.

Now after reading above, can anyone of you think of another option that would have been better than what has been taken?

@Farah Sohail @war&peace @Verve @Realistic Change @Guvera @El_Swordsmen @El Sidd @Dil Pakistan

The reason i am pissed off at army leadership is...they take public as fools..just like politicians..

Look.. Its all a game... They create an issue, hype it up, in the name of national security, create much noise eveytime, tht they ahve been wronged by the politicians, leak news related to the scandals, for months, when public starts believing them and expect them to take some action because of their own hyping up the issue...they make deal in the background and then expect public, not to question them, and just accept things..the way they are..just becuase for them the matter is setlled and they got what they wanted in the background..and so now public has no right to question them..and simply say..oh how can we do it anything against govt? Well..fistly..none asked them to declare martial law... If they knew..they couldnt arrest the culprits..they shouldnt have played with the emotions of public...all these months..and then said tht matter has been settled.. Now anyone who questions them is a traitor.. The way they fool the public everytime, is what pissed me off

Memogate, dawn leaks same old story

The way they react to situations..not even kids do like tht.. Ek din naraz hogaye...aglay din maan gaye...like what the hell? Should leadership of nuclear force react like this? Tell me.. Did we ask them to go and tweet notification is rejected? Did they not know..Nawaz Sharif by now..tht he can go to any extent? Did they not realise the impact of tweet? Did they not know..how will the govt and media react? Even we knew tht..and u are saying tht army didnt realise? How..and why? We thought tht if they had made tht tweet..they would have calculated and prepared for its consequences and would have tweeted it after much deliberation... Did they not know the extent of hate ..tht sharif famiily has for Pakistan, even after it did dawn leaks?? Who reacts like tht? And then after few days..took its own tweet back... What is this?

If they hadnt made tht rejected tweet...and just accepted that first notification..it wiuld still have made some sense.. Nw what is the difference between these two notification? Except for some shame and humiliation..tht u decided to take ur tweet back?

Is this how leadership of nuclear force should react? And if this is how they do...then i must say..they are utterly incompetent...and then how we should trust their decision making process in war time? How should we trust then in crunch time..they wouldnt make such silly things in war?..whicheven a comman man wouldnt do?

If not for anything else...then Gen Bajwa should have resigned...atleast for this level of incompetence..sorry for being harsh... All over the world...ppl at the top resign..but only in Pakistan we think ke qayamat aajayegi..agar resign kar diya..

As I said tht army leadership just creates and hypes issue to get something in background from the politicians..and ..in the process try to fool the oublic..as being guardians of national security..and when the time comes....they make deal and expect public to accept everything quietly

You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time. Abraham Lincoln

Atleast i am not ready to be fooled again..

As you asked... What other option..did Gen Bajwa have? After the sec notification was issued.. I say even after DG ISPR's pressconference... Gen Bajwa should have resigned.. Koi qayamat nahi aati... Ppl resign everywhere, based on principles... Even arny chief of a country like Afghanistan resigned.. Sirf Pakistan main hi hota ke yahan resign karnay ko insult samjhaa jaata hai.. After sec notification and DG ISPR pressconference...if he resigned..public would have sympathised with Gen Bajwa, and army as an instituition tht although they accepted civilian supremacy, but did not back down on principles... Nawaz Sharif siyasi shaheed bhi nahi ban saktay thay.. And u say, morale of army would have gone down.. Hw can morale go down, on army chief resigning on principles? Rather army officers would have felt proud of their chief... Ab jo hua hai... Ke apni tweet bhi wapis le li..aur notification bhi purana wala accept kar liya...is se morale high hua hai? What sort of logic is this? Is se public aur army dono ka morale down hua hai.. Every one trusted army but now it seems like an extension of punjab police.. But then..who even cares abt public image?

Lets see Gen Bajwa's actions since becoming COAS

Just few days before kashmir day, Hafiz Saeed was put under house arrest, and this was announced by DG ISPR as state decision, in "national interest" when indian pressure was at its peak.. Maybe accepting indian pressure is now Pakistan's national interest...

Now, compromise on dawn leaks

I wont be surprised at all..if in few days...Kulbhushan yadev might be going back to india, again under international pressure, and ofcourse in Pakistan's "national interest"
 
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# 3, NS wasn't in the mood of this. If he had done it, it would have meant disastrous for his daughter and he wouldn't have gained the martyrdom for the next elections. Panama JIT would have become ineffective after his resignation.

# 4, NS really wanted this.. He knew that Bajwa and PA will not be able to sustain the financial as well as moral pressure from our friends, and PA will eventually announce the elections on international pressure.

I like these two options however the first of these two i.e. NS resigning was not even a remote possibility. He is a corrupt and illegitimately born person so he would never resign as the history tell us.

The second option i.e. NS was forced to resign with or without the coup, would have been the best option and I don't buy this misleading excuse that our friends would have forced us blah blah blah ...really a crap sold by justifiers.

Because I take you back in 1998 and 99 when Pakistan did nuclear tests and fought the Kargil war, the economy was really in shabby condition and Pakistan was under sanctions and embargoes. The FCAs were totally frozen and the foreign reserves were really low and Pakistan was about to default. The situation worsened even more in 2001 and there NS and military were at loggerheads with each other since NS does not like his daddies so he decides to remove the COAS and appoints the then DG ISI Gen. Zia ud Din Butt as the new COAS. The army moves in and takes over the govt and NS gets arrested and coup completes successfully.


No public demonstration against the removal of the "most popular & democratically elected PM of Pakistan", no friends turns against Pakistan.

In fact, the US ambassador is the first to meet and greet Pervaiz Musharraf then KSA steps in after a few days and a deal gets signed by NS and the govt to let him flee from Pakistan and ever disgraceful family of illegitimates departs from Pakistan under the cloak of the dark of the night. Now tell me which country put a pressure on Pakistan which was on the verge of default and technically had defaulted. But the friends immediately engaged with new govt in Pakistan rather they helped Pakistan because they saw Pervaiz Musharaf as an honest person. A lot of loans were rescheduled or converted into soft loans.

And now Pakistan is more independent from those friends than in 1999. Pakistan's main reliance is on China which has always the best relations with Pakistan and they are really scared for their investment due to these corrupt and incompetent goons. SO China would have welcomed immediately, Donald Trump of the US won't even be bothered and KSA has much stronger ties with Pakistan Army and need it more now than ever before. SO that is the flawed thinking and I really don't buy that.
 
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Godfather analogy wasn't used without a reason in the verdict.. Justice Khosa and Justice Gulzar knew who they were up against..

Only one more judge was required.. only one.. uss ne himmat hi nahi pakri.. aur Pakistan jeeta hua match extra time main le gaya..

The other side is, that IK is gaining political momentum and NS jalsas are turning into jalsis.

The players "outside the ring" must also be watching this.

If IK's momentum carries on then, closer to the end of 8-week period, we may see JIT and SC gaining some strength.
 
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