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Panama leak Case Proceedings - JIT Report, News, Updates And Discussion

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Morale of the nation is low for the 70-years, so not much change there.

This is factually and empirically wrong. No sir, nation has had ups and downs like all the nations have so this is really a sweeping statement and I'm always against such statements and, politely, would like to throw it in a trash can. Furthermore, recent, international report showed that on an average a Pakistani was way happier than an Indian despite all the terrorism and precarious plight of the economy. This kind of words I normally hear from our enemies who want to see and portray our nation as disappointed and demoralized. I do believe you are a good Pakistan but be careful with the words especially when online since these do have an impact.

Morale of the troops is important, particularly that all our neighbours are firing at us and there is internal turmoil too.

Can you enlighten me how will this decision/deal/compromise boost the morale of the soldiers on the ground? Believing that their chief took a u-turn or compromised on Dawn leaks and their DG ISPR took his words back. Please provide me with something that changes my mind because I really want to. I love my army but I just can't wrap my head around this reality.

Furthermore, there is an old saying that army is nothing without a nation and it is especially true in the modern warfare. When the nation stands behind the army, it fares very well on the battlefield. It is very clear from 1965 and 1971. In 1965, the nation was united and stood behind the army while in 1971 it was divided so the tragic result.. as the army was engaged in fighting with the common people, traitors, insurgents and Indian army in the east Pakistan and the nation was not involved like it was in 1965. SO nation's moral is as important as an army's. Any army that thinks it something different from the civilians is doomed. It has to be an integral part of the nation and think for the nation. The nation and army have to work like a unit. It is this "demoralized" nation that has been providing the army with the defense budget, respect and the soldiers (I believe still that the army recruits from the civilian Pakistanis. Not some especial breed from another planet or country).

However, all this will take only a moment to change - i.e., after the Panama FINAL outcome. The nation and the troops will be lifted if the decision is what we all are looking for. Let us hope for a good outcome there.

Well I had more hopes from the dawn leaks than Panama case, initially, for the reasons of perception/image of army which it has been building lately starting with RS and then Gen. Bajwa that under the Army Act, the army can independently take an action in such cases and it does not need any approval from the govt or SC. But army lost that opportunity and failed to exercise the freedom with was bestowed upon it.

So now pinning all the hopes into Panama case is kind of unrealistic, unfair and a practical admission that "Oh we can't do anything despite being the most powerful institution in the country but let's see what you can do SC judges" and throwing all the onus on their shoulders.


So what if SC also takes this route of non-confrontation and compromise for some "greater national interest"?

All institutions have to fulfil their responsibilities and this is what army has been claiming for at least a decade. Please don't play this game of passing the ball and shirking the responsibility.


There comes time in the life of a leader when he has to sacrifice himself and his credibility for the sake of a larger and future good. Bajwa has acted as a leader and I salute him for this.

To explain the above paragraph, I give the example of best leader of ALL - our beloved Prophet PBUH. At the time of "Sulah-i-Hudaebiah" there was intense resentment amongst the 1400 followers who were there. So much so that even after the pact was done and Prophet PBUH asked everyone to open their Ihrams, no body moved. This example shows that how deeply the followers were affected and how disillusioned they had become. All this changed very soon once the outcome of the pact became known.

I'm glad that you mentioned that because I knew people would be justifying this decision using Sulaih Hudaibya but let me tell you this case is not similar to Sulaih Hudaibiya in any way and there are major differences. Generally, the people who use Suliah Hudaibiya as an example have never read the history but I hope you have read it in entirety. Please read my signature since I believe that's more relevant to Dawn leaks. I have to go brother, so I will discuss it with you later and provide you the reasons why I think so.

Best regards

WnP
 
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1). This is factually and empirically wrong. No sir, nation has had ups and downs like all the nations have so this is really a sweeping statement



2). Can you enlighten me how will this decision/deal/compromise boost the morale of the soldiers on the ground? Believing that their chief took a u-turn or compromised on Dawn leaks and their DG ISPR took his words back.


3). Well I had more hopes from the dawn leaks than Panama case, initially, for the reasons of perception/image of army which it has been building


4). I'm glad that you mentioned that because I knew people would be justifying this decision using Sulaih Hudaibya but let me tell you this case is not similar to Sulaih Hudaibiya in any way and there major differences.

Best regards

WnP

Sir!

1). My comment on low morale of nation for 70 years was not in a literal context...it was metaphorical.

2). I agree with you - and this what I eluded to - that this decision IN THE SHORT TERM will adversely affect the morale of the troops. But! if in two months, the result of Panama Gate is able to hold the corrupt accountable then this low morale will be reversed.

3). Well! Before we say "I had more hopes" - let us DEFINE the "hopes". The hopes were to get justice for a national security breach and bring the mighty down. This has not happened. However, when making decisions at this level, one needs a cool head. Let us wait that in two months we prevail and culprits of Dawn leaks can be apprehended even then. It will only need the release of this report which NS has managed to hide at the moment. This report cannot remain hidden if he is not in power.

4). I have not only read about the pact of Hudaybia - I (Alhamdolillah) understand the philosophy of it as well. Again, my reason of mentioning it was not to compare the situation in Dawn leaks with the situation that prevailed at that time. My reason of mentioning was to highlight the pressure a leader has to face in certain times during his life as a leader. I hope I you understand the difference.
 
Hi.

Gen Bajwa is as big a con artist as Gen Kiyani and Gen Raheel Sharif---.

They ALL are - and they need to be.

The difference is: what they achieve? and - do they achieve for themselves or for the nation and the country.

The concern we have that the times of "achieving for self" have gone. Current times demand sacrifice from the soldiers. Therefore, the only thing that will prevail will be "achieving for the country and the nation".

Nation can wait for two months but, after that ..... any con artist (military or political) may not be able to satisfy the masses.
 
Hi.

Gen Bajwa is as big a con artist as Gen Kiyani and Gen Raheel Sharif---.
They ALL are - and they need to be.

The difference is: what they achieve? and - do they achieve for themselves or for the nation and the country.

The concern we have that the times of "achieving for self" have gone. Current times demand sacrifice from the soldiers. Therefore, the only thing that will prevail will be "achieving for the country and the nation".

Nation can wait for two months but, after that ..... any con artist (military or political) may not be able to satisfy the masses.

Actions speak louder than words.....

Jawanoun ko thandah bhi toh karna hai. Kahin bajway ko hi lamba na paa len.
 
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ISLAMABAD: (Dunya News) – Justice Gulzar Ahmad’s car on Saturday faced an accident but the Supreme Court judge remained safe, reported Dunya News.

According to police officials, Justice Gulzar Ahmad remained safe in the accident near Sakhi Sarkar shrine in Aabpara.

It is pertinent to mention here that Justice Gulzar Ahmad was one of the five judges in the panel that heard the Panama Leaks case against Prime Minister’s family.

http://dunyanews.tv/en/Pakistan/388215-SCs-Justice-Gulzar-Ahmads-car-faces-accident

I like this new song of PTI.... Tu banda number 2 Nawaz, Go Nawaz, Go Nawaz :lol::lol::lol:

 
I am sooo waiting for Justice Khosa to become our CJ..... He truly knows the true essence of justice and responsibility of a judge... A God fearing man!! May Allah bless him, Justice Gulzar and others like them
@Farah Sohail, wishful thinking won't make anything happen. Mere munh me khaak lekin sach yehi he ke Justice Khosa ka career khatm ho chuka he. He might never be CJ now. Jub Dawn Leaks me kuch nahi ho saka to Panama to mamuli baat he.
 
Hi.

Gen Bajwa is as big a con artist as Gen Kiyani and Gen Raheel Sharif---.

I don't think they are con artists, they just don't have the testerone level and the political acumen required to deal with such situations. Also a bit selflish.

The only con-artists, I guess, were Zia-ul-Haq and to some extent Perv. Mush. Just check how Zia-ul-Haq dealt with John the interviewer.

But even Perv. Mush gave in to the pressure from KSA and USA so I really don't like him. The rat is now hiding in UAE.
 
@Farah Sohail, wishful thinking won't make anything happen. Mere munh me khaak lekin sach yehi he ke Justice Khosa ka career khatm ho chuka he. He might never be CJ now. Jub Dawn Leaks me kuch nahi ho saka to Panama to mamuli baat he.

Aisy tu na kahein... :( aap tu heart attack de rahay hain :( Allah Justice Khosa ko lambi zindagi dey.... Iske ilaawa sirf yeh tareeqa hai ke Justice Khosa CJ na banay...woh ye k NS Justice Khosa ke khilaf supreme judicial council main reference le jaaye... Yehi ghalti Musharraf ne bhi ki thee.....iftikhar Ch tu us waqt tak koi khaas nahi jaanta tha.. Phir jo hua, sab ne dekha... Ab tu Justice Khosa already bhtt popular hain... Nawaz Sharif yeh ghalti kabhi nahi karay ga.. Agar karay ga..tu apnay downfall ko mazeed tez karay ga
 
@Farah Sohail, wishful thinking won't make anything happen. Mere munh me khaak lekin sach yehi he ke Justice Khosa ka career khatm ho chuka he. He might never be CJ now. Jub Dawn Leaks me kuch nahi ho saka to Panama to mamuli baat he.

Justice Khosa is next CJP - N$ has no authority to mingle like he has in the procedure of appointment of COAS.
 
I don't think they are con artists, they just don't have the testerone level and the political acumen required to deal with such situations. Also a bit selflish.

The only con-artists, I guess, were Zia-ul-Haq and to some extent Perv. Mush. Just check how Zia-ul-Haq dealt with John the interviewer.

But even Perv. Mush gave in to the pressure from KSA and USA so I really don't like him. The rat is now hiding in UAE.
NS ka Abbu .
 
Justice Khosa is next CJP - N$ has no authority to mingle like he has in the procedure of appointment of COAS.

Yes... ThankGod for this... Tht NS cant interfere in the appointment of CJ, unlike appointment of COAS... I think COAS ke liye bhi yehi procedure hona chahye ht senior most becomes COAS.. Aaj Gen Ashfaq Nadeem hotay...because he was senior most after Gen Zubair Hayat, who is our CJCSC
 
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