Pakistan-Turkey 4 Milgem Ada Class Corvettes Contract - Construction started

[PakFactor]

“We received the project worth over €1 billion from Pakistan despite all kinds of negative attempts by the Americans and this also paved the way for the Helicopter (T129B ATAK) Project.”[/USER]

What objections did the Americans have and do they have to inject their legs into everyone's business.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

which can launch LY-80/HHQ-16 Medium Range Air Defence Missiles

Are there any air defence systems which have a longer range than HHQ 16 and can be available to us?

 

[Tank131]

A Look at Latest Status of the PN MİLGEM Project
Issue 97

The project, which was signed on September 6, 2018, and started on March 11, 2019 (T0), includes the construction of a total of 4 frigates based on the ADA Class Corvette design for the Pakistan Navy. Two of the ships will be built at the Istanbul Naval Shipyard and the other two at the Karachi Shipyard in Pakistan.

This agreement is the single highest value contract signed by the Turkish Defence and Aviation Industry to date, and it marks a historic moment as it is the first domestically designed warship export. Taking the floor at the 9th Naval Systems Seminar held on October 14-15, 2019, at METU Culture and Congress Center, Ministry of National Defence (MSB) Shipyard's Deputy Director-General Rear Admiral (Lower Half) Mehmet SARI, made a speech about the PN MİLGEM Project and said, “We received the project worth over €1 billion from Pakistan despite all kinds of negative attempts by the Americans and this also paved the way for the Helicopter (T129B ATAK) Project.”

The construction of the first frigate was officially commenced with the first steel cutting ceremony held within the scope of the Delivery Ceremony of the TCG Kınalıada Corvette on September 29, 2019. The first steel to be used on the first ship of the Pakistan Navy MİLGEM (PN MİLGEM) Project was cut by President Recep Tayyip ERDOĞAN and Pakistan Navy Commander Admiral Zafar Mahmood ABBASI. The first ship under the PN MİLGEM project is planned to be delivered in Turkey in August 2023.

According to the production process calendar shared by the main contractor of the project, Military Factory and Shipyard Management Inc. (ASFAT), the first ship will be completed in the T0+54th month in Turkey, the second ship in the 60th month in Pakistan, the third ship in the 66th month in Turkey, and the last ship in the 72th month in Pakistan. There will be a 6-year time difference between the construction of the first ship and the delivery of the fourth ship. The last frigate of the Jinnah Class will be delivered at Karachi in 2025 and will enter the Pakistan Navy inventory.

Within the scope of the AMAN-2019 Exercise, which was hosted by the Pakistan Navy on February 8-12, 2019, in the Arabian Sea and the Indian Ocean with the participation of Defence Turkey Magazine as a special guest, Pakistan Navy (PN) Commander Admiral ABBASI visited the TCG Gökçeada Frigate and announced that Jinnah Class Corvettes (Pakistan Navy classifies them as Corvettes) will be equipped with a Vertical Launching System (VLS). However, he did not share any information about the number of ships to be equipped with the VLS. The ship image, which was shown at the PN MİLGEM Project 1st Steel Cutting Ceremony on September 29, 2019, featured two 8-cell Vertical Launching System (VLS) modules behind the main cannon as well as an Aselsan GÖKDENİZ Close-in Weapon System (CIWS) where the RIM-116 Mk49 Lancer is located. We also learned that there would be some differences in the design of the fourth Jinnah Class Frigate. Pakistani engineers and technicians who will begin on-the-job training during the construction of the first ship are expected to acquire the necessary know-how to make changes to the ADA Class Corvette design until the construction of the fourth ship. It was also stated that the fourth vessel would be designed jointly, and it will also be the first frigate designed by Pakistan with its own means. Due to VLS integration, the Jinnah Class will be longer and heavier than the ADA Class.

It is considered that the propulsion system to be used in Jinnah Class Frigates, which will be shaped according to the requirements of the Pakistan Navy, will include only diesel engines and not the LM2500 gas turbine. ADA Class Corvettes can reach a maximum speed of 31 knots with their propulsion system in the Combined Diesel and Gas (CODAG) configuration, which consists of two 32MW diesel engines and a gas turbine, while the maximum cruising speed of the Jinnah Class is 26 knots. We learned that the Jinnah Class Frigates will accommodate an additional 40 personnel compared to the ADA Class, and include ablution rooms and a small mosque. Unlike the ADA Class, which can stay at sea for 10 days, the Jinnah Class Frigates will be able to stay at sea for 15 days, and the ships will be armed with Chinese C-802 guided anti-ship missiles instead of Harpoon or ATMACA missiles. The Pakistan Navy is also expected to place the Harba Anti-ship Cruise Missile in the Jinnah Class vessels in the future. As noted above, the RIM-116B (Block 1A) Rolling Airframe Missiles (RAM) and the 21-cell Mk 49 Mod 3 Guided Missile Launching System (GMLS) located on the helicopter hangar, will be replaced with 20mm Phalanx or Aselsan product 35mm GÖKDENİZ CIWS. The ships will also be equipped with two 8-cell VLS, which can launch LY-80/HHQ-16 Medium Range Air Defence Missiles. The Jinnah Class Frigates will also incorporate several critical sub-systems of the ADA Class Corvette. Some of those are the Havelsan ADVENT Combat Management System (CMS), Aselsan ARES-2N ESM (ships are also expected to use AREAS-2NC ECM System), HIZIR Torpedo Countermeasure System, SMART-S Mk2 3D Search Radar, YALTES product EPKİS Integrated Platform Management System, and the Meteksan Defence product the YAKAMOS Hull-Mounted Sonar System. The Jinnah Class Frigates will also be equipped with the Naval Information Exchange System (NIXS) developed by MilSoft for the Pakistan Navy and the indigenous data-link system “Link Green.” The Pakistan Navy has established a nationwide communication infrastructure called RedLine to enable communication between NIXS-equipped platforms.

Meanwhile, the Main Contractor ASFAT and Aselsan signed a €176.9 million contract on November 14, 2019, for the supply and integration of Aselsan product systems and equipment to be included in the Jinnah Class Frigates. Under this contract, Aselsan will make its deliveries between 2022-2023.

https://www.defenceturkey.com/en/content/a-look-at-latest-status-of-the-pn-milgem-project-3824

@JamD @Tank131

I'm assuming this means that all Jinnah class will have vls and that the 4th will be further modified. That is good news (although we were all speculating as much). Beyond this it appears that the chinese have allowed integration of both C-802A AND HQ-16, although i am still hopeful the PN will pursue CAMM-ER for equipment on its vessels (maybe in the future when CAMM-ER hits markets). perhaps that will be one of the changes on 4th Jinnah class. All and all, with Damen (hopefully another 4 to be ordered), all Jinnahs by 2025, 4 Type 054A, Hangor, upgrades to A90b, PN is like a Phoenix, rising from ashes of ineptitude. Hopefully the F-22P will get some love next woth an MLU (and if CAMM-ER comes to milgem, hopefully they will come to F-22Pmlu as well). That will be a potent fleet.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

A Look at Latest Status of the PN MİLGEM Project
Issue 97

The project, which was signed on September 6, 2018, and started on March 11, 2019 (T0), includes the construction of a total of 4 frigates based on the ADA Class Corvette design for the Pakistan Navy. Two of the ships will be built at the Istanbul Naval Shipyard and the other two at the Karachi Shipyard in Pakistan.

This agreement is the single highest value contract signed by the Turkish Defence and Aviation Industry to date, and it marks a historic moment as it is the first domestically designed warship export. Taking the floor at the 9th Naval Systems Seminar held on October 14-15, 2019, at METU Culture and Congress Center, Ministry of National Defence (MSB) Shipyard's Deputy Director-General Rear Admiral (Lower Half) Mehmet SARI, made a speech about the PN MİLGEM Project and said, “We received the project worth over €1 billion from Pakistan despite all kinds of negative attempts by the Americans and this also paved the way for the Helicopter (T129B ATAK) Project.”

The construction of the first frigate was officially commenced with the first steel cutting ceremony held within the scope of the Delivery Ceremony of the TCG Kınalıada Corvette on September 29, 2019. The first steel to be used on the first ship of the Pakistan Navy MİLGEM (PN MİLGEM) Project was cut by President Recep Tayyip ERDOĞAN and Pakistan Navy Commander Admiral Zafar Mahmood ABBASI. The first ship under the PN MİLGEM project is planned to be delivered in Turkey in August 2023.

According to the production process calendar shared by the main contractor of the project, Military Factory and Shipyard Management Inc. (ASFAT), the first ship will be completed in the T0+54th month in Turkey, the second ship in the 60th month in Pakistan, the third ship in the 66th month in Turkey, and the last ship in the 72th month in Pakistan. There will be a 6-year time difference between the construction of the first ship and the delivery of the fourth ship. The last frigate of the Jinnah Class will be delivered at Karachi in 2025 and will enter the Pakistan Navy inventory.

Within the scope of the AMAN-2019 Exercise, which was hosted by the Pakistan Navy on February 8-12, 2019, in the Arabian Sea and the Indian Ocean with the participation of Defence Turkey Magazine as a special guest, Pakistan Navy (PN) Commander Admiral ABBASI visited the TCG Gökçeada Frigate and announced that Jinnah Class Corvettes (Pakistan Navy classifies them as Corvettes) will be equipped with a Vertical Launching System (VLS). However, he did not share any information about the number of ships to be equipped with the VLS. The ship image, which was shown at the PN MİLGEM Project 1st Steel Cutting Ceremony on September 29, 2019, featured two 8-cell Vertical Launching System (VLS) modules behind the main cannon as well as an Aselsan GÖKDENİZ Close-in Weapon System (CIWS) where the RIM-116 Mk49 Lancer is located. We also learned that there would be some differences in the design of the fourth Jinnah Class Frigate. Pakistani engineers and technicians who will begin on-the-job training during the construction of the first ship are expected to acquire the necessary know-how to make changes to the ADA Class Corvette design until the construction of the fourth ship. It was also stated that the fourth vessel would be designed jointly, and it will also be the first frigate designed by Pakistan with its own means. Due to VLS integration, the Jinnah Class will be longer and heavier than the ADA Class.

It is considered that the propulsion system to be used in Jinnah Class Frigates, which will be shaped according to the requirements of the Pakistan Navy, will include only diesel engines and not the LM2500 gas turbine. ADA Class Corvettes can reach a maximum speed of 31 knots with their propulsion system in the Combined Diesel and Gas (CODAG) configuration, which consists of two 32MW diesel engines and a gas turbine, while the maximum cruising speed of the Jinnah Class is 26 knots. We learned that the Jinnah Class Frigates will accommodate an additional 40 personnel compared to the ADA Class, and include ablution rooms and a small mosque. Unlike the ADA Class, which can stay at sea for 10 days, the Jinnah Class Frigates will be able to stay at sea for 15 days, and the ships will be armed with Chinese C-802 guided anti-ship missiles instead of Harpoon or ATMACA missiles. The Pakistan Navy is also expected to place the Harba Anti-ship Cruise Missile in the Jinnah Class vessels in the future. As noted above, the RIM-116B (Block 1A) Rolling Airframe Missiles (RAM) and the 21-cell Mk 49 Mod 3 Guided Missile Launching System (GMLS) located on the helicopter hangar, will be replaced with 20mm Phalanx or Aselsan product 35mm GÖKDENİZ CIWS. The ships will also be equipped with two 8-cell VLS, which can launch LY-80/HHQ-16 Medium Range Air Defence Missiles. The Jinnah Class Frigates will also incorporate several critical sub-systems of the ADA Class Corvette. Some of those are the Havelsan ADVENT Combat Management System (CMS), Aselsan ARES-2N ESM (ships are also expected to use AREAS-2NC ECM System), HIZIR Torpedo Countermeasure System, SMART-S Mk2 3D Search Radar, YALTES product EPKİS Integrated Platform Management System, and the Meteksan Defence product the YAKAMOS Hull-Mounted Sonar System. The Jinnah Class Frigates will also be equipped with the Naval Information Exchange System (NIXS) developed by MilSoft for the Pakistan Navy and the indigenous data-link system “Link Green.” The Pakistan Navy has established a nationwide communication infrastructure called RedLine to enable communication between NIXS-equipped platforms.

Meanwhile, the Main Contractor ASFAT and Aselsan signed a €176.9 million contract on November 14, 2019, for the supply and integration of Aselsan product systems and equipment to be included in the Jinnah Class Frigates. Under this contract, Aselsan will make its deliveries between 2022-2023.

https://www.defenceturkey.com/en/content/a-look-at-latest-status-of-the-pn-milgem-project-3824

@JamD @Tank131

The Search Radar is from Thales and Aselsan and the weapons LY 80 and C 802 are Chineese. Have Chineese allowed the integeration of their weapons with Turkish Radar?
Moreover, there is a size difference between Harbah and C 802 means there will alterations when Harbah will be fitted. Does'nt it shows that harbah is not operational as of now otherwise there is no need of first fitting it with C 802 and then Harbah

I'm assuming this means that all Jinnah class will have vls and that the 4th will be further modified. That is good news (although we were all speculating as much). Beyond this it appears that the chinese have allowed integration of both C-802A AND HQ-16, although i am still hopeful the PN will pursue CAMM-ER for equipment on its vessels (maybe in the future when CAMM-ER hits markets). perhaps that will be one of the changes on 4th Jinnah class. All and all, with Damen (hopefully another 4 to be ordered), all Jinnahs by 2025, 4 Type 054A, Hangor, upgrades to A90b, PN is like a Phoenix, rising from ashes of ineptitude. Hopefully the F-22P will get some love next woth an MLU (and if CAMM-ER comes to milgem, hopefully they will come to F-22Pmlu as well). That will be a potent fleet.

Dont u think we need 4 destroyers now with each accompanying 1 PN Battalion. We need long range Air defence systems like that of HQ 9 which PLAN have on its destroyers. The long range air defence offer better protection against likes of Supersonic AshM like Brahmos

 

[Ultima Thule]

The Search Radar is from Thales and Aselsan and the weapons LY 80 and C 802 are Chineese. Have Chineese allowed the integeration of their weapons with Turkish Radar?
Moreover, there is a size difference between Harbah and C 802 means there will alterations when Harbah will be fitted. Does'nt it shows that harbah is not operational as of now otherwise there is no need of first fitting it with C 802 and then Harbah

Do research before you post, most of modern weapons (Russian/Chinese) have the capability to integrate each other because they using open architectural philosophy, our JF-17 can carry and fire all weapons that utilized by our F-16 including AMRRAM with little to no modifications because our JF-17 using 1553 data bus that are also being used on our F-16

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Do research before you post,

Thats what I am doing. Asking capable people to increase my knowledge

 

[Haris Ali2140]

Do research before you post, most of modern weapons (Russian/Chinese) have the capability to integrate each other because they using open architectural philosophy, our JF-17 can carry and fire all weapons that utilized by our F-16 including AMRRAM with little to no modifications because our JF-17 using 1553 data bus that are also being used on our F-16

Don't get triggered. He is asking a legitimate question.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Thats what I am doing. Asking capable people to increase my knowledge

not i am trying say go to respected defense sites and dig deeply their, they gave you just a general perception of modern tech, and respected defense site gaves you in details/technical view points so you understand more easily
and yes it is possible to Integrate Western AESA and Chinese weapon because they are both using OPEN architectural philosophies

 

[GreyHat]

As noted above, the RIM-116B (Block 1A) Rolling Airframe Missiles (RAM) and the 21-cell Mk 49 Mod 3 Guided Missile Launching System (GMLS) located on the helicopter hangar, will be replaced with 20mm Phalanx or Aselsan product 35mm GÖKDENİZ CIWS.

I remember you mentioning the possibility of RAM R-116 from the German side Raytheon. Is it confirmed that Phalanx will be only used and the possibility of SeaRAM has gone out?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I remember you mentioning the possibility of RAM R-116 from the German side Raytheon. Is it confirmed that Phalanx will be only used and the possibility of SeaRAM has gone out?

The PN must have gone with the Turkish Phalanx-type solution because it couldn't get the RAM via Germany. The German rep I spoke to said the German govt approved it and that it would deal with the US. I guess, like Turkey, it didn't pan out. But it may also be an issue of cost as well.

 

[Tank131]

I remember you mentioning the possibility of RAM R-116 from the German side Raytheon. Is it confirmed that Phalanx will be only used and the possibility of SeaRAM has gone out?

It doesnt matter which company makes the deal, if the tech of a nation is part of the item, that nation has to give permission for the sale. That is why Pakistan is seeking ITAR free solutions. Any US tech found in an item will require US permission for a sale, even if the other vendor is main manufacturer. For example Israel is not allowed to sell its radars from Elta unless it gets US approval. For a long time EL/M was expected to equip the LCA but US refused. Only now its possibily going to equip Jaguars (not sure if us has approved that already or not). When there was word that a chinese company copied the 2052,the US launched an investigation to make sure that wasnt given by Israel because most of Eltas tech is based on US. Even Phalcon AWAC sale to china was vetoed. So to sell RAM to Pakistan, even through Germany would require US approval. That will usually never happen for a complete system like RAM because if the US was ok with the sale, they would tell Pakistan to buy from us directly. The situation with ATAK is also in front of you and is similar (US engine).

Only thing i dont get is if the Chinese have approved C802 AND HQ-16, Why not go for FL-3000N instead of a phalanx or Gokdeniz, or at least a Type 1130 with 6 HQ-10?

 

[LKJ86]

most of modern weapons (Russian/Chinese) have the capability to integrate each other because they using open architectural philosophy

The answer is no.
For example, China's J-11B/15/16 can't use Russia's munitions, and PLAAF's Su-35SK also can't use China's munitions.

 

[Ultima Thule]

The answer is no.
For example, China's J-11B/15/16 can't use Russia's munitions, and PLAAF's Su-35SK also can't use China's munitions.

I mean export oriented jets like Mig-35/J-10C

 

[LKJ86]

yes it is possible to Integrate Western AESA and Chinese weapon because they are both using OPEN architectural philosophies

It isn't that simple.

I mean export oriented jets like Mig-35/J-10C

I don't think so.

 

[Corsair255]

'Pakistan to be playmaker with Turkey’s ship project'
Pakistan's acquisition of 4 Turkish corvettes to change balance in region, says Turkish official

ISLAMABAD

A Turkish official praised Tuesday an agreement between Pakistan and Turkey on the sales of four corvettes to Pakistan as part of Turkey’s National Ship (MILGEM) project.

“Pakistan's possession of four MILGEM corvettes will change the balance in the region and will carry the country to the position of a playmaker,” Esad Akgun, director general of Military Factory and Shipyard Management Inc. (ASFAT), a company operating under Turkey’s Defense Ministry, told Anadolu Agency.

“It is very important for us to have Pakistan in this position as we do not see the Pakistani army separate from our own army,” Akgun said.

Akgun visited Pakistan to attend Pakistan-Turkey Business Investment Forum organized by Turkey's Foreign Economic Relations Board (DEIK).

In line with the 2018 agreement, Pakistan will buy four MILGEM corvettes, two of them will be constructed in the Istanbul Shipyard and the others will be built in Pakistan’s port city of Karachi.

“In the first phase, one corvette each to be built in Istanbul and Karachi will participate in the Pakistan Navy inventory in 2023,” ASFAT said in its official website.

The other two ships will be inscribed in the inventory in 2024, ASFAT added.

Underlining the importance of the agreement, Akgun said the agreement cannot be considered as just a ship export, but it is a multi-faceted project that contributes to the world peace.

“One of the ASFAT's founding missions is to improve the capabilities of the Turkish Armed Forces, to share them with brotherly countries, and to contribute to world peace by strengthening them,” he stressed.

Turkey transfers technical information and technology to Pakistan through this agreement, he added.

The company’s goal is to “bring a new breath” to the Turkish defense industry sector, Akgun said, and added: “Defense industry export is not an option but an obligation for Turkey.”

Turkey is currently negotiating with brother countries in the Pacific, the Balkans and North Africa for new initiatives, he added.


https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/pakistan-to-be-playmaker-with-turkey-s-ship-project/1744923