Pakistan Needs J-20 If It Wants To Stand A Chance

[monitor]

Pakistan is a Tier 1 Ally for China. That means anything China has in it's inventory, is developing, or needs, China will oblige.

I cannot revel the level of cooperation on an open forum, but believe me, it's not a typical buyer / seller relationship.

Britain Israel Japan too are very close us ally deprived of F-22, why China will be different with Pakistan. I know China Pakistan relationship is deep rooted.

Pakistan is falling further and further behind against India for Air Superiority let alone Air Parity. It's only chance is to buy at least 36 J-20.

each J-20 will command & control 4 to 6 JF-17 blk 3, the J-20 will fly ahead and use it's stealth/sensors to find targets and relay this information to the JF-17, the JF-17 will launch their SD-10 and the J-20 will take control of these missiles via a two way data link.

36 J20 144/216 JF block 3

this would level the playing field.

Those feature you can expect from J-31 too.

Hi,

Whatever it is---has to have deep strike capabilities---.

Sir how deep you can go, India is having lots of air defence system which will make difficult for any penetration .

 

[Hyde]

Britain Israel Japan too are very close us ally deprived of F-22, why China will be different with Pakistan. I know China Pakistan relationship is deep rooted.

I think it could be because Britain never asked for it in the first place besides the Non-sale of F-22 by law.

UK has 0 fighter jets from foreign countries since 1980s and hardly ever imported fighter jets in its history

Japan too makes its own fighter jets so I do not know how you can compare with China-Pakistan relationship

 

[C130]

This is an American conspiracy. To stimulate the purchase of F35 in India, causing the South Asian arms race and regional instability, the U.S. arms dealers can make a lot of money

conspiracy? no it's a fact. Pakistan needs the J-20 if it wants to stand a chance against India.

India is getting the Pak-FA anyhow, so no need for F-35

 

[MastanKhan]

Why would JH-7B be frequently recommended to Pakistan by some members?

The concesus around Chinese military forum is JH-7A is a 2.5 Gen(Like the Tornado)strike fighter(This role is being replaced by Multirole fighters in modern militaries). It's engine is old with low thrust and TWR, it's avionics is out of date and it had little, if any BVR capability. It also had the highest crash rate in all PLA jets.

PLAN is using it as a platform to launch standoff anti ship missiles and cruise missiles, nothing more. And people are talking about replacing all JH-7/7A with J-16s.

The JH-7B program is scrapped a long time ago.
If Pakistan wants to buy JH-7s, the only option is JH-7A which is arguably obsolete. If Pakistan wanted a strike fighter, this is an awful choice.

Hi,

Modern day technology has done wonders with the 2.5 and above Gen aircraft.

I do not think that you are familiar with what you wrote---. The 55 years old B52 bomber with modern upgrades is competitive with 4-4.5 gen aircraft in manners of technology and weapons capability and so is the B1 bomber.

The JH7B with an upgraded frame---a modern aesa fire control radar---irst---litening type pod---data link---with ability to launch smart strike munitions air to ground---air to ship---or carry a load of bvr's missiles---.

Modern technology has done wonders for good old frames---they can still fly around for 20-30 years more---.

 

[Khafee]

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/this-is-a-fully-armed-f-15sa-the-most-advanced-product-1715732294

This a/c still leaves a lot to be desired. The radar APG-82, being an offshoot of the APG-79 carries the same issues of the APG-79. A better option would be an upgrade of the APG-83.

Secondly, higher thrust F110-GE-132 engines would be a better option.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

I mean what did you have in mind besides JH7B? Su35, what else do you think could fit that role?

Sir,
Do not know what @MastanKhan sir might be considering but remember reading @Windjammer sir as saying F-15's are more a reality for this kind of role.

IMO it would be wise to develop a twin engine aircraft from the design of JF-17 for this role or perhaps this is why PAF might be interested in J-31 as it is designed and manufactured by the same Chinese company.

IF China wanted, it could come up with a JH7C, or a newer J11 /J16, i.e. a tailor made solution for Pakistan's maritime and deep strike roles. IF it wanted to, given CPEC and other interests.

In conclusion it's not that unrealistic.

Sir,
JH-7B is equiped with jamers and other ew suites that provide them semi stealth features. This is the reason this aircraft has popped up many times on PDF. There are serious limitation in designs that limit its progress, something that PAF would not want if it is going to induct.

I think it could be because Britain never asked for it in the first place besides the Non-sale of F-22 by law.

UK has 0 fighter jets from foreign countries since 1980s and hardly ever imported fighter jets in its history

Japan too makes its own fighter jets so I do not know how you can compare with China-Pakistan relationship

Sir,
F-22 was considered to be a strategic aircraft due to the technology it had when it was made. Today things are different F-35 is available and there was a news a few days back regarding the Stealth features being superior to the F-22 due to the new process.

UK made most of the aircraft through partnerships with European countries. Tornado and EFT both are examples to this. Today no European country has invested on a 5th gen program rather gone for the 6th gen aircraft. EFT naval variant was never planed which meant that UK had to rely on the Harrier for a longer period. This also coincided with the requirement of new ACC procurement. When UK decided to build its next generation aircraft carried then they had a choice of F-35 and Rafale. UK opted for F-35's which are being delivered.

Japan manufactured its own F-16 copies but they did buy F-15's. They did request F-22 but when they were refused they went ahead with their own 5th gen program.

 

[ohmrlobalobayeh]

Pakistan is falling further and further behind against India for Air Superiority let alone Air Parity. It's only chance is to buy at least 36 J-20.

36 J20 144/216 JF block 3

this would level the playing field.

Thanks for this post.

China needs to buy at least 36 F-22s to complement her J-20s too

 

[艹艹艹]

conspiracy? no it's a fact. Pakistan needs the J-20 if it wants to stand a chance against India.

India is getting the Pak-FA anyhow, so no need for F-35

Within five years, India simply can not have T50
At present, Pakistan and India will not be the outbreak of a comprehensive war.India wants to get T50 to deal with China.
India in the future there may be buying F35, this possibility can not be ruled out, because the slow progress of T50

 

[DJ_Viper]

Pakistan is falling further and further behind against India for Air Superiority let alone Air Parity. It's only chance is to buy at least 36 J-20.

each J-20 will command & control 4 to 6 JF-17 blk 3, the J-20 will fly ahead and use it's stealth/sensors to find targets and relay this information to the JF-17, the JF-17 will launch their SD-10 and the J-20 will take control of these missiles via a two way data link.

36 J20 144/216 JF block 3

this would level the playing field.

Sir, I am not sure if I follow your strategy as it doesn't make sense. 36 J20 and 144/216 JFT bock III's and what about 80 PakFa's supported by 250 SU-30's and 36 Rafales? The point is, these are imaginary scenarios and don't make real sense in a real war. We can continue to write about these for the next 20 years and get happy online.

One thing the Pakistanis can do (and probably will do) is to create an extensive SAM system in multiple layers. SAMs are cheaper and in numbers, more effective. If they can mass produce advanced SAMs, they wouldn't need 600 jets to match the IAF.

2-3 SAMs per invading aircraft have almost 95% kill ratio as the aircraft starts to bleed energy and loses agility after evading the 1st incoming missile. Its gets worst after the 2nd missile (granted there is a few seconds worth of difference between the firing sequence). So a 3rd SAM has almost over 98% chance to take out the target. Now if you did this and took out 200 IAF jets (by using 600 missiles, probably costing less then the cost of 10-15 jets), it is a bargain. Plus you could deploy a massive number of SAM systems in rings within any country and that ring can protect you from jamming and incoming attacks as the second and third tier will always be protected. Destruction of the second AD SAM ring really means the country has lost over 75% of their air-force, Radars and SAM network. So at that point, its a losing game no matter what you do. Thanks

It would, and they are thinking about this already, because the data-link capability between the models is for precisely this purpose. One doesn't need to hear that they are looking at these opportunities over the neighborhood mosque loudspeaker, it kind of stands out of the ruck.

Sir, Everyone with advanced data link and C&C capability is looking for a "Missile Truck" scenario. I am sure you'll find stuff on USAF too, trying to use drones, C-130's, B1B's, and many other platforms to make a missile rain on incoming fleet of aircraft, with mere couple of "directors" in place (like the F-22 and the JSF). So the concept isn't new. India also plans to use the PakFa with SU-30's on the back (SU-30 can hold 8-12 bvr missiles with various fuel configurations). A 100 SU-30's theoretically can use 800-1200 BVR missiles. But the issue is, no one will fly an entire air-force at once to face 800 BVR missiles and there is a lot more to the air-warfare then we can imagine on here. Thanks

 

[MastanKhan]

Britain Israel Japan too are very close us ally deprived of F-22, why China will be different with Pakistan. I know China Pakistan relationship is deep rooted.

Sir how deep you can go, India is having lots of air defence system which will make difficult for any penetration .

Hi,

None of those 3 states border the U S----so that mean---britain and israel are friends only in need---.

As for Japan---it has lost it ballz to stand up after the stock market crash of late 80's / early 90's.

Japan is just a vassal state of the U S.

All the indian shoreline is open for a standoff type of weapon.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Patience my PDFians

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir,
Do not know what @MastanKhan sir might be considering but remember reading @Windjammer sir as saying F-15's are more a reality for this kind of role.

IMO it would be wise to develop a twin engine aircraft from the design of JF-17 for this role or perhaps this is why PAF might be interested in J-31 as it is designed and manufactured by the same Chinese company.


Sir,
JH-7B is equiped with jamers and other ew suites that provide them semi stealth features. This is the reason this aircraft has popped up many times on PDF. There are serious limitation in designs that limit its progress, something that PAF would not want if it is going to induct.

Hi,

Modern EW suites and weapons and upgrades of frames and skins of aircraft are like VIAGRA to the old aircraft---.

It gives them a totally new life and vigor and strength---.

I hope you kids can relate to something to understand the scenario better.

 

[neem456]

lol reading some posts that no need to think about money and its not even a isue.
If money is not even a ssue then what is stopping pakistan from getting f-35 or even pakfa.
Show the money to russians and they will sideline india and even offer pakfa. Becoz money talks and BS walks.

 

[Fireurimagination]

Isn't J20 China's F22, if Pakistan purchases J20 who will buy the export version J-xx? Also if China sells J20 to other countries what will be classified about it then? Who knows probably US will be studying it but taking it down part by part in Pakistan then

 

[danger007]

Sir,
For deSCp strike capabilities with great loiter time and heavy payload Su-35 still beats any fifth gen A/C be it J-20, J-31 or F-35 or even F-22.

That's why I say that a heavy fighter like SU-35 will still have a specific role even if PAF acquires fifth gens especially for maritime role since PNS won't go for ACC so we need a land based long range capable squadron that can carry four heavy AShMs like C-400 akgs, Raad ALCM and sink a few frigates / ACCs of INS in a single sortie.

And you think one sortie enough to sink few frigates or /ACC ...hmm is this a new joke