Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions.

[ziaulislam]

Exactly the point, there are too many mixtures of platforms on the training side; 2 engine vs 1 engine. T-37s are long gone and serve no purpose; when K8 is there, why have 2 plus the headaches of spare parts on two fronts.


Frankly i see no reason for this purchase. Instead it would have been better spent getting a dedicate replacement for Mirage for deep strike. There is no rationale if we think of it given that there will be jf-17b for training purpose which can easily be used as well or worse case jl9 which has a lot of commonality with 7pgs. L15 have no track record behind them as well.
Anyway, just a very confusing story from a road map prespective.

if life time cost is lower than it does make sense

 

[denel]

if life time cost is lower than it does make sense

true but there is a factor called obsolesence. by collecting T-37s from hand me outs reflects a bad decision in my view and reflect a policy not to promote your own development aircraft like K8.

 

[araz]

dual engine trainer means a dual engine aircraft will follow soon?

Not necessarily. Most good trainers nowadays are dual engined to be more safe in case of engine failure.
A

 

[Armchair]

Wasn't the K-8 share of 15% sold? If memory serves me right...

 

[khanasifm]

Too many rumours from last so many years nothing announced yet so premature to say what is happening

 

[denel]

Not necessarily. Most good trainers nowadays are dualengined to be more sqfe in case of engine failure.
A

No not really; many are going for Pilatus or super tucanos which give better comparative performance to T-37s.

 

[MastanKhan]

I agree with you, JH-7 will be very useful for PAF and the benefit to cost ratio is very favorable as well. But despite it's extensive use for maritime don't know why China hasn't revealed any new variants or developments. I do remember when FBC-1 was trialed by PAF their complaint was it was under powered and availability was a problem because back then production rate was low, 6 per year. It was also pitched to Iran but don't know their reasons. Since then they came out with the improved JH-7A but we didnt get any PAF updates after that.

Got a new update from a Chinese source on the J-31, there was lack of new developments on this platform suggesting it was put on the back burner as confusion on intended customers but got the reason. The third prototype will be larger and it's being delayed because of engine availability. They are waiting for the WS-13E/RD-93MA to be available which would happen somewhere in 2019. So this project is till in development and not being shelved.

Hi,

We all get carried away in the newer is better concept---. That is what is happening in china---and the same thing is happening in the US---A10 vs F35.

It is not that the military does not want the older aircraft---it is the vested interests that control the supply chain---.

If the chinese and the US stuck with the older aircraft---the aircraft industry would go bonkers---.

 

[New World]

Well those who know this kind of stuff say that is the obvious step

so, the thing which will follow will have only one seat. otherwise there is no sense of L-15.

Not necessarily. Most good trainers nowadays are dual engined to be more safe in case of engine failure.
A

sir, i know that most good trainers have dual engine, but PAF already have lots of trainer and JF-17b is the new addition.

 

[Tank131]

The JH-7A suffered from people comparing it to Flankers, F-16, and the like. It is not a true multirole aircraft nor is it an air superiority fighter. What it is, is a missile truck with great range and payload and a giant nose. If you look at its specs, it has similar range to a Su 30 (3700km) with slightly better payload (9000kg vs 8000kg). While it only has 9 hard points, it has 2 additional stations under the intakes which are dedicated for pods/sensors.Designed for low level flight and terrain avoidance this jet was meant to fly in low under radar level and fire its missiles in a barrage and flee.

If PAF selectef it for strike use or more ideally, for naval strike, it could be customized into a very potent platform. Ideally basing any such acquisition around new avionics (ideally the AESA IRST and avionics from J-16 or J-11D). It can be Fitted with 4 C-802A/2 CM 400AKG/ or 2 RA'AD all while still carrying a centerline tank 2 bvr and 2 wvr missiles. These would be monsters for IN to deal with. With the AESA ranged radar and AWAC support, they will see the IN fighters long before being in any danger themselves and my (with PL-15) get the first 2 shots on them. Equipped with HMS and PL-10 HOBS missiles as well and much of its deficiencies in maneuverability will also be covered (not that this is a aircraft that should be dogfighting).

 

[MastanKhan]

The JH-7A suffered from people comparing it to Flankers, F-16, and the like. It is not a true multirole aircraft nor is it an air superiority fighter. What it is, is a missile truck with great range and payload and a giant nose. If you look at its specs, it has similar range to a Su 30 (3700km) with slightly better payload (9000kg vs 8000kg). While it only has 9 hard points, it has 2 additional stations under the intakes which are dedicated for pods/sensors.Designed for low level flight and terrain avoidance this jet was meant to fly in low under radar level and fire its missiles in a barrage and flee.

If PAF selectef it for strike use or more ideally, for naval strike, it could be customized into a very potent platform. Ideally basing any such acquisition around new avionics (ideally the AESA IRST and avionics from J-16 or J-11D). It can be Fitted with 4 C-802A/2 CM 400AKG/ or 2 RA'AD all while still carrying a centerline tank 2 bvr and 2 wvr missiles. These would be monsters for IN to deal with. With the AESA ranged radar and AWAC support, they will see the IN fighters long before being in any danger themselves and my (with PL-15) get the first 2 shots on them. Equipped with HMS and PL-10 HOBS missiles as well and much of its deficiencies in maneuverability will also be covered (not that this is a aircraft that should be dogfighting).

@Armchair enjoy the read of the above post---.

Hi,

Youngman---I am excited--. Thank you.

It is not what the machine can do---it is what you can make the machine do.

It is all about your ability and capability---mindset and understanding---a utilitarian approach of knowing and understanding the strengths.

The usage of the F16's had brought in a very negative effect in the mental growth of the future Paf pilots---and that shows of very well when they are unable to assess and analyze an aircraft utility based on its design principals and not the operational principals of the F16's---.

The mental growth of the Paf pilot stagnated with the dependence on the F16's---. They visualized everything thru the prizm of the F16---and that has been disastrous---.

 

[GriffinsRule]

PAF is not hiding anything viz-a-viz K-8 and T-37. The simple fact of the matter is the sanctions on China of the Garrett engine delayed its production until they found a suitable replacement. By then, PAF had put its fleet to T-37s through a structural enhancement program and later got basically free T-37s from Turkey with lots of spares and airframe life.
As a poor country and always cash strapped for new acquisitions, it made sense to use the T-37 fleet as long as it is viable. Why retire a working aircraft with plenty of life prematurely? K-8s have been steadily increasing in numbers and given how well it has sold overseas, PAF decision to go slow on its induction seems to have had no negative impact on sales as China seems to have done just fine in that realm.

 

[mzeeshanfahd]

Here's my take. After the Chinese failed in their attempt to sell the Z10, and Pakistan opted for the turkish T129, Pakistan had to please their Chinese benefactors by showing interest in the L15.

why not j series .....

 

[BHarwana]

JF-17 on the cover of FDS Magazine

 

[Armchair]

A modern LIFT has an advantage that no other aircraft has - it can mimic the control dynamics and flight profile of various aircraft it is programmed to. This could help lower the flight hours on F-16s, JF-17, Su-35s or J-20s.

With a low CPFH and long service lives, they can really boost an airforce. Just thinking aloud on why the decision could make sense for PAF.

 

[ghazi52]

AhmAd IbrAhim‏ @AhmAdTipu7
PAF and IAF pilots with USAF colleagues after completion of course in US. Standing far left is PAF pilot Saleem Baig, who shot down IAF hunter over Peshawar & Gnat over Srinagar. Standing far right is IAF pilot Tejwant Singh who was shot down while flying a Mig21FL by PAF Sabre