Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions.

[Thorough Pro]

Some basic math. 100,000 hours / 35 years = 2857 hours per year
2857 hours / 40 planes = 71 hours per plane per year (looks way too low with even 40 planes, increase the jet numbers to current strength and you'll end up with approx. 35 hours per plane per year, which is unbelievable.

F 16 Fighting Falcons in Pakistan Air Force have completed the landmark of 100,000 successful Flight hours! F16s in Pakistan are operational from 3.5 decade and so far only 9 crashes have occurred making one of successful safety record in Aviation History.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1002864809841430528

 

[TOPGUN]

Possibly but a new platform for training at this point does not make sense to me at least.
Are we envisaging a ground attack role for it as well.
A

Pakistan is looking to buy Hongdu 15 LIFT air craft from China. This trainer can also be employed for ground strike role as it can carry variety of ground munitions as well as short range air to air missiles. Timeline and exact number of units to be bought is yet to be known. https://t.co/qkE4mugPeW
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fatman17, bro is this news conformed ? and I am thinking if bought like you said would be used for ground strike roles more then training .

 

[syed_yusuf]

Pakistan is looking to buy Hongdu 15 LIFT air craft from China. This trainer can also be employed for ground strike role as it can carry variety of ground munitions as well as short range air to air missiles. Timeline and exact number of units to be bought is yet to be known. https://t.co/qkE4mugPeW
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Good decision, I hope they go for L15b. Avery potent LIFT and multi role platform

 

[MastanKhan]

Some basic math. 100,000 hours / 35 years = 2857 hours per year
2857 hours / 40 planes = 71 hours per plane per year (looks way too low with even 40 planes, increase the jet numbers to current strength and you'll end up with approx. 35 hours per plane per year, which is unbelievable.

Hi,

A realistic number should be between 5.5 to 6 times that number---.

 

[Shabi1]

Pakistan is looking to buy Hongdu 15 LIFT air craft from China. This trainer can also be employed for ground strike role as it can carry variety of ground munitions as well as short range air to air missiles. Timeline and exact number of units to be bought is yet to be known. https://t.co/qkE4mugPeW
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Chengdu marketing brochures are also listing JF-17B as a LIFT option with multirole capabilities. Wouldnt it make more sense to employ them for LIFT role as PAF will be inducting few JF-17Bs till it waits for JF-17 Blk-3 production.

For CAS support the JF-17B will be more capable and we're also replenishing our Gunship fleet and enhancing the UCAV capability.

PAF has a habit of evaluating everything to keep itself updated on developments or what to incorporate on local platforms, we heard similar news for the Korean T-50 and Czech L-39. For training a replacement of the T-37s via TAI Hurkus (since it has jet like characteristics) seems more plausible.

Hi,

Oh---gee---thanks for the post---.

There was a reason for me regarding the naval strike missions and JH7 A aircraft---.

PAF does need a delivery truck for missiles and bombs. And I too think it should have bought the Mirage F-1 and JH-7 but it's too late for both of these as non of these are in further development and I suspect JH-7 is out of production as well since JH-7 B was supposed to come out in 2015 but no updates on any developments, seems China will replace them with J-11/15/16s. They've even got got a J-16D variant similar to F-18 Grawler.

PAF could consider Chinese flankers or either H-6K/Y-9 (ASW variant) with fighter escort. But again all wishlists.

 

[Gomig-21]

Pakistan is looking to buy Hongdu 15 LIFT air craft from China. This trainer can also be employed for ground strike role as it can carry variety of ground munitions as well as short range air to air missiles. Timeline and exact number of units to be bought is yet to be known. https://t.co/qkE4mugPeW
View attachment 478283View attachment 478284

Hey @pakistanipower , looks like you owe our friend @Zarvan an apology after going at him hard for this news that he couldn't talk about (for some strange reason but that's neither here nor there) and give him a big hug and a kiss and apologize and tell him you're sorry in sincere humility, my friend.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-buying-jets-from-china-old-story-or-new-development.561553/

Looks like @Zarvan was onto something after all..

 

[MastanKhan]

PAF does need a delivery truck for missiles and bombs. And I too think it should have bought the Mirage F-1 and JH-7 but it's too late for both of these as non of these are in further development and I suspect JH-7 is out of production as well since JH-7 B was supposed to come out in 2015 but no updates on any developments, seems China will replace them with J-11/15/16s. They've even got got a J-16D variant similar to F-18 Grawler.

PAF could consider Chinese flankers or either H-6K/Y-9 (ASW variant) with fighter escort. But again all wishlists.

Hi,

Modern technology has done wonders in upgrading older aircraft for a different utility function---.

In diversifying their utility with modern upgrades and electronics---they have become the perfect platforms for launching standoff weapons from a distance of 100 miles and beyond---or acting as BVR trucks for future air dominance battles.

A modern radar has limitations in how far it can see---. To look out of your envelope of influence you have awacs---and other surveillance aircraft that are flying on the fringes of your regional territory---. If they fly out too far---they become vulnerable---if they send a naval flotilla---that becomes vulnerable to your stand off AShM's---.

The strike capability of the JH7A type aircraft can do wonders for pakistan and give it control over the ocean---. The enemy will never put its naval flotilla in the region that can be targetted from 250 miles away.

@Signalian @Tank131 @Khafee and then myself have written about it extensively here amongst many others---.

Always remember---why can't anyone defeat the US---because no one can reach its mainland---.

If you cannot reach the heartland of the enemy thru aircraft air strikes---we might as well pack it and make peace---.

Mumbai is the Heart / Liver / Kidneys of the enemy---. One major strike---and the capitol will start running out of the country---never to come back---.

That is why---we need to wage a war from our position of strength---and that is a conventional war---.

We can get a sqdrn of JH7A's from the current chinese inventory---and get a second sqdrn in the shop for total upgrade with the latest available EW package---.

Once you get the JH7A in your inventory and your pilots start flying it---then you can literally understand the difference between a .308 sniper rifle and a Barret .50 anti material / anti personal rifle.

Understanding the utility and strength of a weapons system on its own merits is tantamount to a new awakening---.

The JH7A type aircraft is a different kind and type of aircraft---. Its utility cannot be measured by comparing it to the utility of an F16 or a JF17---.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Some basic math. 100,000 hours / 35 years = 2857 hours per year
2857 hours / 40 planes = 71 hours per plane per year (looks way too low with even 40 planes, increase the jet numbers to current strength and you'll end up with approx. 35 hours per plane per year, which is unbelievable.

Not even accounting for the fact that the tweet is complete bullshit there is something really wrong with your basic analysis man. First off, we didn't have 40 aircraft operational since 1986 when the first of the 9 F-16s was lost (8 since PAF achieved the 100,000 accident free hours).

As Windjammer had posted earlier, the news piece states that on October 4, 2005 a delegation of Pratt & Whitney presented a plaque to the Chief of the Air Staff in recognition of flying the F-16, for over 100,000 accident-free flight hours. The bold part is important here ... last F-16 accident prior to 2005 happened in October of 1994. So that is just 11 years or operations with 32 F-16s. That comes to around 285 per airframe a year, not far below the US average of 300 hours a year. That including the fact that during the Pressler Amendment years of 1989 through 1994, PAF F-16 fleet was severely affected with spares shortages that impacted flying operations. So all in all, not too bad.

 

[LKJ86]

Hi,

Modern technology has done wonders in upgrading older aircraft for a different utility function---.

In diversifying their utility with modern upgrades and electronics---they have become the perfect platforms for launching standoff weapons from a distance of 100 miles and beyond---or acting as BVR trucks for future air dominance battles.

A modern radar has limitations in how far it can see---. To look out of your envelope of influence you have awacs---and other surveillance aircraft that are flying on the fringes of your regional territory---. If they fly out too far---they become vulnerable---if they send a naval flotilla---that becomes vulnerable to your stand off AShM's---.

The strike capability of the JH7A type aircraft can do wonders for pakistan and give it control over the ocean---. The enemy will never put its naval flotilla in the region that can be targetted from 250 miles away.

@Signalian @Tank131 @Khafee and then myself have written about it extensively here amongst many others---.

Always remember---why can't anyone defeat the US---because no one can reach its mainland---.

If you cannot reach the heartland of the enemy thru aircraft air strikes---we might as well pack it and make peace---.

Mumbai is the Heart / Liver / Kidneys of the enemy---. One major strike---and the capitol will start running out of the country---never to come back---.

That is why---we need to wage a war from our position of strength---and that is a conventional war---.

We can get a sqdrn of JH7A's from the current chinese inventory---and get a second sqdrn in the shop for total upgrade with the latest available EW package---.

Once you get the JH7A in your inventory and your pilots start flying it---then you can literally understand the difference between a .308 sniper rifle and a Barret .50 sniper rifle.

Understanding the utility and strength of a weapons system on its own merits is tantamount to a new awakening---.

The JH7A type aircraft is a different kind and type of aircraft---. Its utility cannot be measured by comparing it to the utility of an F16 or a JF17---.

 

[Shabi1]

Hi,

Modern technology has done wonders in upgrading older aircraft for a different utility function---.

In diversifying their utility with modern upgrades and electronics---they have become the perfect platforms for launching standoff weapons from a distance of 100 miles and beyond---or acting as BVR trucks for future air dominance battles.

A modern radar has limitations in how far it can see---. To look out of your envelope of influence you have awacs---and other surveillance aircraft that are flying on the fringes of your regional territory---. If they fly out too far---they become vulnerable---if they send a naval flotilla---that becomes vulnerable to your stand off AShM's---.

The strike capability of the JH7A type aircraft can do wonders for pakistan and give it control over the ocean---. The enemy will never put its naval flotilla in the region that can be targetted from 250 miles away.

@Signalian @Tank131 @Khafee and then myself have written about it extensively here amongst many others---.

Always remember---why can't anyone defeat the US---because no one can reach its mainland---.

If you cannot reach the heartland of the enemy thru aircraft air strikes---we might as well pack it and make peace---.

Mumbai is the Heart / Liver / Kidneys of the enemy---. One major strike---and the capitol will start running out of the country---never to come back---.

That is why---we need to wage a war from our position of strength---and that is a conventional war---.

We can get a sqdrn of JH7A's from the current chinese inventory---and get a second sqdrn in the shop for total upgrade with the latest available EW package---.

Once you get the JH7A in your inventory and your pilots start flying it---then you can literally understand the difference between a .308 sniper rifle and a Barret .50 anti material / anti personal rifle.

Understanding the utility and strength of a weapons system on its own merits is tantamount to a new awakening---.

The JH7A type aircraft is a different kind and type of aircraft---. Its utility cannot be measured by comparing it to the utility of an F16 or a JF17---.

I agree with you, JH-7 will be very useful for PAF and the benefit to cost ratio is very favorable as well. But despite it's extensive use for maritime don't know why China hasn't revealed any new variants or developments. I do remember when FBC-1 was trialed by PAF their complaint was it was under powered and availability was a problem because back then production rate was low, 6 per year. It was also pitched to Iran but don't know their reasons. Since then they came out with the improved JH-7A but we didnt get any PAF updates after that.

Got a new update from a Chinese source on the J-31, there was lack of new developments on this platform suggesting it was put on the back burner as confusion on intended customers but got the reason. The third prototype will be larger and it's being delayed because of engine availability. They are waiting for the WS-13E/RD-93MA to be available which would happen somewhere in 2019. So this project is till in development and not being shelved.

 

[Ultima Thule]

I agree with you, JH-7 will be very useful for PAF and the benefit to cost ratio is very favorable as well. But despite it's extensive use for maritime don't know why China hasn't revealed any new variants or developments. I do remember when FBC-1 was trialed by PAF their complaint was it was under powered and availability was a problem because back then production rate was low, 6 per year. It was also pitched to Iran but don't know their reasons. Since then they came out with the improved JH-7A but we didnt get any PAF updates after that.

Got a new update from a Chinese source on the J-31, there was lack of new developments on this platform suggesting it was put on the back burner as confusion on intended customers but got the reason. The third prototype will be larger and it's being delayed because of engine availability. They are waiting for the WS-13E/RD-93MA to be available which would happen somewhere in 2019. So this project is till in development and not being shelved.

But JH-7 uses WS-9 which is based on British engine @Shabi1

 

[Shabi1]

But JH-7 uses WS-9 which is based on British engine @Shabi1

Yes true, the British engines it's based on had a good reliability but I'm talking of a long time ago perhaps 2001 PAF back then was looking for a multirole fighter. They would have looked at it from a air to air combat role and not from the maritime strike role angle that we are talking about now. The Mirages back then would have been freshly getting their ROSE upgrades so they might have been thought to be enough for PAF strike needs.

This jet is perfectly suited for the strike role. Don't know why this option wasn't revisited. Perhaps post 9/11 PAF got too hyped up about additional F-16s and JF-17 went so well they didn't look at other specialist options more seriously. Another reason could be that stand off cruise missiles other than Exocet (Mirage) and Harpoon (P-3C, F-16) been inducted in PAF recently so back then the concept of a missile truck didn't dawn on anyone. But these are just guesses, really have no clue why.

Regardless of the reasons Mirage F-1 and JH-7 are two platforms PAF missed out on.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Yes true, the British engines it's based on had a good reliability but I'm talking of a long time ago perhaps 2001 PAF back then was looking for a multirole fighter. They would have looked at it from a air to air combat role and not from the maritime strike role angle that we are talking about now. The Mirages back then would have been freshly getting their ROSE upgrades so they might have been thought to be enough for PAF strike needs.

This jet is perfectly suited for the strike role. Don't know why this option wasn't revisited. Perhaps post 9/11 PAF got too hyped up about additional F-16s and JF-17 went so well they didn't look at other specialist options more seriously. Another reason could be that stand off cruise missiles other than Exocet (Mirage) and Harpoon (P-3C, F-16) been inducted in PAF recently so back then the concept of a missile truck didn't dawn on anyone. But these are just guesses, really have no clue why.

Regardless of the reasons Mirage F-1 and JH-7 are two platforms PAF missed out on.

If PAF/PN purchases JH-7 it would be stand of missile launcher rather then a mere bomb truck, espeacially in the Maritime attack @Shabi1 and as for engine before the emergence of JH-7A/B, JH-7 uses British SPY Engine @Shabi1

 

[fatman17]

Hey @pakistanipower , looks like you owe our friend @Zarvan an apology after going at him hard for this news that he couldn't talk about (for some strange reason but that's neither here nor there) and give him a big hug and a kiss and apologize and tell him you're sorry in sincere humility, my friend.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-buying-jets-from-china-old-story-or-new-development.561553/

Looks like @Zarvan was onto something after all.. [emoji38]

Here's my take. After the Chinese failed in their attempt to sell the Z10, and Pakistan opted for the turkish T129, Pakistan had to please their Chinese benefactors by showing interest in the L15.

 

[fatman17]

fatman17, bro is this news conformed ? and I am thinking if bought like you said would be used for ground strike roles more then training .

Multi role aircraft. Presently at evaluation stage.