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Well I hope not only we consider them but go for TOT and work on more range versions and ones with better engines. I mean same as Meteor of Europe. Good move if true.
Hi,

Why---please give technical reasons for doing that when there is already a conglomerate working successfully in that business.

Sometime back, an operational requirement was floated, whereby, Mirage strike packages would be escorted by mirages as well, freeing up Thunders and Vipers for other important tasks.

Even though we all would like DER or TER on Mirages..... But even one BVR type missile on an aircraft may do wonders. As a bandit, I would start my evasive maneuvers the moment my RWR came to life... And of course I won't be thinking that I'd been painted by an aircraft having only one missile.

Afterall, It took only two missiles on February 19 to have a snowball effect.
Hi,

Most complicated situations have simpler solutions---and here the boys were talking about bvr missile racks for 4 and 6 missiles.
 
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Sometime back, an operational requirement was floated, whereby, Mirage strike packages would be escorted by mirages as well, freeing up Thunders and Vipers for other important tasks.

Even though we all would like DER or TER on Mirages..... But even one BVR type missile on an aircraft may do wonders. As a bandit, I would start my evasive maneuvers the moment my RWR came to life... And of course I won't be thinking that I'd been painted by an aircraft having only one missile.

Afterall, It took only two missiles on February 19 to have a snowball effect.
Are the mirages going to be in service long enough for it to be beneficial? Also, if PAF are keeping mirages for long, is PAF going to consider picking up retiring mirage 2000 from Qatar and UAE to make the mirage fleet stronger?
 
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Well I hope not only we consider them but go for TOT and work on more range versions and ones with better engines. I mean same as Meteor of Europe. Good move if true.
In fact TUBITAK-SAGE is working on ramjet powered BVR missile GOK-HAN (Khan of the Sky), and anti-radiation missile AKDO'AN. Top most priority from the highest authority has been given to them...

According to the Turkish analysts, their test firing is coming soon as their serial production facilities are almost done. I am pretty sure PAF would be their first export customer even if Bajwa is in the power. What else Hindutva besides Rafael and S-400???



 
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Are the mirages going to be in service long enough for it to be beneficial? Also, if PAF are keeping mirages for long, is PAF going to consider picking up retiring mirage 2000 from Qatar and UAE to make the mirage fleet stronger?
The Mirage 2k is now a dead story for PAF. it does not make any sense whatsoever to pick them up. As to arming the M3s with a BVR, it is a last ditch attempt to give some teeth to a platform while we build up enough numbers of Block 3s.
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The Mirage 2k is now a dead story for PAF. it does not make any sense whatsoever to pick them up. As to arming the M3s with a BVR, it is a last ditch attempt to give some teeth to a platform while we build up enough numbers of Block 3s.
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The irony is that the PAF would've had a much harder time keeping the M2Ks in the air versus the M3/5. The former didn't have as long of a production run, so there aren't as many spare aircraft left for parts and attrition. In other words, a costlier problem and, potentially, a premature retirement.
 
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Had mr sidhu not been made as the air chief, we would not have heard anything about our mirage fleet other than the fact that they are to be employed as a dedicated strike platform. but as mr sidhu is a mirage dirver so...
 
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Had mr sidhu not been made as the air chief, we would not have heard anything about our mirage fleet other than the fact that they are to be employed as a dedicated strike platform. but as mr sidhu is a mirage dirver so...
I rhink you are overestimating PAF's buying power. The fact remains we do not hace enpugh money to replace our ageing M3/5 Fleet along with the PGs. We cannot run the PGs any longer as the air frame life is approaching the end. The M3/5 fleet on the other hand has still got life in the air frame. It is therefore a question of making do with what we have. We do need a BVR on the M3/5s knowing fully well qe will not be able tp get more than 1 on board and also the fact we will only survive if we take a shot from a distance and scoot BTB. The M3/5s are not going to survive any modern day merge or even sticking around for a second shot.
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The irony is that the PAF would've had a much harder time keeping the M2Ks in the air versus the M3/5. The former didn't have as long of a production run, so there aren't as many spare aircraft left for parts and attrition. In other words, a costlier problem and, potentially, a premature retirement.
I have said this earlier the only way to do this would have been to buy the supply line as the french were winding down and maintain the fleet. The last attempted buy included spares for at least 20years but the Cost was 60 million a pop. On top of that the frogs took the offer off the table and put forward the Rafale for sale.
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I rhink you are overestimating PAF's buying power. The fact remains we do not hace enpugh money to replace our ageing M3/5 Fleet along with the PGs. We cannot run the PGs any longer as the air frame life is approaching the end. The M3/5 fleet on the other hand has still got life in the air frame. It is therefore a question of making do with what we have. We do need a BVR on the M3/5s knowing fully well qe will not be able tp get more than 1 on board and also the fact we will only survive if we take a shot from a distance and scoot BTB. The M3/5s are not going to survive any modern day merge or even sticking around for a second shot.
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I think u have miss under stood my point.....like I said PAF has envisioned a role for 3/5 n ie dedicated strike ac.....now if ur adding bvr missiles n it means that ur expanding their role n the 3/5 are now to provide top cover as well or at the very least are r expected to fight their way out without external help.
At this point in their lives 3/5 should not be in the AF, let lone be expected to perform a role which will only make them a dead duck.
The skirmish with iaf should have been enough to prove that point

IK really mucked it up when he appointed Sidhu on the advice of bajwa....bajwa was only securing his flanks for his big game
 
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I think u have miss under stood my point.....like I said PAF has envisioned a role for 3/5 n ie dedicated strike ac.....now if ur adding bvr missiles n it means that ur expanding their role n the 3/5 are now to provide top cover as well or at the very least are r expected to fight their way out without external help.
At this point in their lives 3/5 should not be in the AF, let lone be expected to perform a role which will only make them a dead duck.
The skirmish with iaf should have been enough to prove that point

IK really mucked it up when he appointed Sidhu on the advice of bajwa....bajwa was only securing his flanks for his big game
what about that old news about procuring some old mirages ,but not in use now ,from EGYPT for purpose of getting spares out of them and few of them still in flyable condition???
 
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I think u have miss under stood my point.....like I said PAF has envisioned a role for 3/5 n ie dedicated strike ac.....now if ur adding bvr missiles n it means that ur expanding their role n the 3/5 are now to provide top cover as well or at the very least are r expected to fight their way out without external help.
At this point in their lives 3/5 should not be in the AF, let lone be expected to perform a role which will only make them a dead duck.
The skirmish with iaf should have been enough to prove that point

IK really mucked it up when he appointed Sidhu on the advice of bajwa....bajwa was only securing his flanks for his big game
Thank you for your post. I understood you fully the first time. If I remember correctly the appointment of the Current chief was not a Bajwa's behest but at the request of the outgoing Air chief . I think he happened to be the senior most officer in the AF so IK went with advice rendered by the AirChief.
Re the Mirages, I stand by my earlier post. I am aware of their niche role. This is not unusual as the A10s the Tornadoes, and the F4s are retained by certain air forces due to niche roles. As to the decision to employ the BVR on them ( even one on the Centre hardpoint which in my humble opinion is stupidity) is a last ditch stand of an AF which struggles to get enough platforms to comply with their needs. The Block 3 is delayed,they cannot get enough F16s from second hand market. The J10s in their current state are not suitable for A2G role. So we neither have a suitable platform nor do we have the money. This remains our dilemma rather than current ACM choice.
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