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No place for Ahmadis in Imran Khan’s Naya Pakistan

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I don't like Hindus discussing Islamic matters with such impunity. I just don't like it @ admin.

So does many Hindus do not like Muslims talking about their God. Fact is it is free world, you might stop it here. Insecure does not like debating and most religious people have no logic and hence they say no debate about religion.
 
A compilation was already made when Prophet was alive...Hafsa 1 of Prophet's wife had a compiled Quran....Not sure where you do your readings from... :unsure:

I didn't get that, Did prophet muhammed write the quran, what exactly do you mean by his wife compiled the quran. Did she write it, or she compiled, data that was already available. what exactly does that mean.
 
I didn't get that, Did prophet muhammed write the quran, what exactly do you mean by his wife compiled the quran. Did she write it, or she compiles, data that was already available. what exactly does that mean.
@sandy_3126 it is interesting you want to be a part of a huge detailed discussion when you do not even know the basics of the whole thing! :blink:
With knowledge at your finger tips, and the capability to search and read and understand, were you interested you would have equipped yourself with the basics before running in blind! No offence!
 
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The point is why does the State have to decide who is Muslim and who is not.
Why does the State have laws that anyone who wishes to leave Islam must be killed.

because islam is not a religion, it is a kind of political, social and constitutional ideology. more like a cult.
 
I don't like Hindus discussing Islamic matters with such impunity. I just don't like it @ admin.

This is political not Islamic - even those who wish to take over God's job will acknowledge that it is political, after all it's in the constitution, a secular TEMPORAL document
 
Not true, Infact quran was amended and changed quite a few times hence there are quite different version floating around since beginning. Hafsa bint Umar's text was ordered to be the standard and rest all were destroyed by the caliph Uthman ibn Affan, because there were quite a few of them in distribution back in the day. But incedentally the current popular version of quran is the one that is compiled by Abu Bakr, now there is another version to believed to be compiled by Ali ibn Abi Talib right after muhammads death, which differed from the standardized version, none of them are written by the prophet, so there will always exist a chance in the book to have mis interpreted what the prophet may or may not have said or believed.

Sources for the bolded part would be appreciated for my own knowledge.

Btw, Qur'an was compiled after the death of the Prophet, but the recording process had begun in his life.
Plus, attempts have been made to alter the Qur'an and its verses. Weak ahadeeth were circulated as verified ones. But Hafiz-e-Qur'an have thwarted these attempts.

Athiesm has no rules, you can be a atheist and what ever you like .. thats the beauty of it. Athiesim believes in logic, and if logic dictates for personal gratification of spiritual psychological reasons you need to go to the church or temple once in a while, you are free to do so!

Atheism nullifies the existence of gods and goddesses. How can an atheist, disbelieving in God, also be a Muslim or Jew etc etc. ??
 
Is that why all sects have been killing each other and continue to this day while claiming to believe in the same Quran? Can your statement be any more ignorant?

So are you saying the Quran is wrong ??

Muslims are killing each other over misinterpretation of the Quran no Muslim says the Quran is wrong though.
 
because islam is not a religion, it is a kind of political, social and constitutional ideology. more like a cult.
@tharkibuddha

The word cult in current popular usage is a pejorative term for a new religious movement or other group whose beliefs or practices are considered abnormal or bizarre by the larger society

Nothing POLITICAL NOR SOCIAL NOR CONSTITUTIONAL IDEOLOGY about cults....

Islam is a deen = a way of life!
 
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So does many Hindus do not like Muslims talking about their God. Fact is it is free world, you might stop it here. Insecure does not like debating and most religious people have no logic and hence they say no debate about religion.

I've taken part in one too many debates to realize where it leads. Muslims rarely, if ever, talk about Hinduism as the religious tenets are so different that comparative analysis is simply not feasible. e.g. you just take a shot at religious people and made a sweeping generalization that most religious people don't have logic (setting aside the 'logic' of blanket statements like this) this is the prime reason why such debates are pointless.
 
@sandy_3126 it is interesting you want to be a part of a huge detailed discussion when you do not even know the basics of the whole thing! :blink:
With knowledge at your finger tips, and the capability to search and read and understand, were you interested you would have equipped yourself with the basics before running in blind! No offence!

It might be a stupid question, but stupid questions are base of understanding grand concepts. Hence I asked did prophet muhammad write the quran, or did his wife write it, or did she compile the data which was written by others in form of scriptures into a standard book. Who exactly wrote the book. I think it is a simple enough question deserving a simple answer.
 
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See, whether they are Muslims or not, this must not be the business of the state - because the law is supposed to be above that, Pakistanis can't be equal before the law, if the law itself asserts that they are not - Equality before the law is itself a issue of morality.

See when we begin assigning politics on the basis of confession, we are really going down the path of sectarian war - is that not a moral issue?? We have already entered a stage where we argue who is a Muslim, real Muslim, and real Shariah, and real Islam, the more we thread this path the greater the opportunity that it will result in civil war- just look at the TTP and it's support base, we are already there -- Rights, Responsibilities, war and peace are issues of morality and unfortunately for us, we seem to be more concerned that these Ahmadi not be considered Muslims because we have chosen to define Muslim in a way that ensures that we can do this to another group - for instance are Takfiri Muslims??? If yes, then let the blood flow??

Instead of expanding the world of Islam we have constricted it - we abrogate the duties of God to ourselves, for no reason other than political expediency - is that moral?

well this takes us back to the ideological preferences of each of us on which u and I have differed. I prefer islamic worldview over the secular worldview and find religion as a guide for the state rather than a roadblock. and i find both (state and islam) as supporting each other.
if u want to breakdown each worldview, im sure ull find diversities and extremes in both cases. if TTP is the self professed islamists then we have also had self professed nationalists using bombings and anarchy to further their agenda. similarly just how there is no 100% consensus on laws pertaining to shariah (an argument which is overblown but still), there is no consensus on what is the best secular form of government. if ignorance has lead religious scholars to fight with each other over who is more right, then we find similar ignorance on the secular side fighting over their own respective ideologies - socialism vs capitalism; democracy vs communism etc.
therefore, in my view the spirit of secularism is equally incapable of dealing with the ignorance/intolerance led sectarianism (big or small) as is the spirit of religion. and the only solution to sectarianism lies in the implementation of the set of laws which treats everyone as equals. now you may argue that a secular state achieves this in the best way, but i see Islamic state as more suited for this purpose bec of my preference for the set of islamic laws.
furthermore, just how a secular nation state responds in its own way to protect its national identity, an islamic state will respond in its own way to protect its islamic identity.

ultimately it all boils down to which set of civil, economic and other laws are better relative to the other. and obviously i prefer the islamic laws over the secular ones while it is the other way round for you.
 
Not true, there seems to be diiferent versions of quran right from the begining translating to it being interpreted or compiled by different authors. you might want to look it up

No there were no different Quran, what there was were different patchments here and there which were collected and codified into one script to be used for all. Zayd the scribe never said any was wrong he just compiled them into one codified format. The one complete Quran was then mass distrubuted to everyone so there would be no confusion.
 
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