No place for Ahmadis in Imran Khan’s Naya Pakistan

[KingMamba]

Yes, they do.

They have some convoluted reasoning to get around the "final prophet" tenet -- claiming Muhammad (pbuh) was the final "major" prophet, but "minor" prophets can still arise -- theirs being, of course, a prime example.

Yes but then why do they not accept the so called prophets that arose after Mirza of Qadian? Like I believe both the Bahai prophets declared themselves after Ghulam Ahmad yet they are not accepted.

 

[Dubious]

Can there be any provisions in islam where these guys can be accommodated, seems like they just want to have an additional prophet, they are not really insulting the old one. More importantly can there be no provisions in islam where the almighty might have changed his mind and decided to send another prophet in 1400 years.

I dont intend to offend anyone, but If I am not mistaken, I think muslims do believe that jesus, moses abraham were early prophets, and god did have a sense of humor , when he asked arbraham to hog tie his son. So is it possible that allah might have changed his mind in 1400 years and decided to send a "minor prophet"

@sandy_3126
Well, Islam is not a religion which tolerates adulteration of its basic principals! We are not like Christians who say ok we can make room for that pagan ritual oh yes that Easter bunny and father Christmas can come in too...and 2000yrs down the road the religion is unrecognizable as compared to the original 1

I have given the verse from the quran:

Well that was said by the mohammed the prophet, not allah, what if he made a mistake, or was misquoted or just his words were taken out of context, as I understand, the prophet did not write the quran, did he?

Muhammad is not the father of [any] one of your men, but [he is] the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing.
Surah Al-Ahzab verse 40

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...ran-khan-s-naya-pakistan-3.html#ixzz2SFSyRUmy

 

[RazorMC]

The State considering them as Muslims is just asking for bloodshed.
Because even if Ahmadis are able to call themselves Muslim legally, there is no guarantee that the larger sects will accept this.

 

[nastikan]

@nastikan that is the problem ....we are not like other religions...We DO NOT CHANGE the basic and then say it is Islam...

We have many schools of thoughts BUT ALL HAVE SAME BASICS....

None of the religions were expecting to change and were at each other's throat until they changed, due to the changes around them or due to external threats. Islam will change too, when the cost of not changing becomes too high .

 

[Dubious]

None of the religions were expecting to change and were at each other's throat until they changed, due to the changes around them or due to external threats. Islam will change too, when the cost of not changing becomes too high .

@nastikan and compared to their scriptures NONE of these religions are practicing what those who brought the religion thought....The bible is more of WHAT PAUL SAID and allowed rather than WHAT JESUS did and said!

 

[KingMamba]

Can there be any provisions in islam where these guys can be accommodated, seems like they just want to have an additional prophet, they are not really insulting the old one. More importantly can there be no provisions in islam where the almighty might have changed his mind and decided to send another prophet in 1400 years.

I dont intend to offend anyone, but If I am not mistaken, I think muslims do believe that jesus, moses abraham were early prophets, and god did have a sense of humor , when he asked arbraham to hog tie his son. So is it possible that allah might have changed his mind in 1400 years and decided to send a "minor prophet"
Well that was said by the mohammed the prophet, not allah, what if he made a mistake, or was misquoted or just his words were taken out of context, as I understand, the prophet did not write the quran, did he?

Your line of reasoning is really amusing. It shows a lack of understanding of Islamic theology though and some may find it insulting.

 

[Dubious]

@nastikan we are talking about a religion , a way of life not a belief or a man made system that you can tweak at will!

 

[muse]

A fundamental tenet of Islam is that Muhammad (pbuh) was the last and final prophet.

Ahmedis claim that they have a new prophet who succeeds Muhammad (pbuh).

It's sort of like someone denying the Holy Trinity but still claiming to be Christian.

And that between them and God - this thakedar of Islam has only gotten us from a bad place to a worse place. here is the heart of the issue for the state, that all citizens of Pakistan are equal before the law - equal before God is a issue for God, not men.

 

[RazorMC]

Can there be any provisions in islam where these guys can be accommodated, seems like they just want to have an additional prophet, they are not really insulting the old one. More importantly can there be no provisions in islam where the almighty might have changed his mind and decided to send another prophet in 1400 years.

.....

Islamic scripture can not be changed. Any change in the even the basic principles of Islam means abandoning the religion itself.
And by refusing Prophet Muhammad being the final Prophet, Ahmadis have made their choice pretty clear.

There is no objection to believing whatever one wants, the problem is against a forceful insertion into Islamic mainstream that Ahmadis desire. One is either a Muslim or a Chirstian or a Hindu or a Jew or atheist. You can't be a Jew and atheist at the same time, can you?

 

[Dubious]

And that between them and God - this thakedar of Islam has only gotten us from a bad place to a worse place. here is the heart of the issue for the state, that all citizens of Pakistan are equal before the law - equal before God is a issue for God, not men.

@muse then Ahmadis should declare they are not Muslims like the Bahai...simple

You can not change the laws, tweak the religion at will and then say accept me no matter what I do....

 

[Sedqal]

I don't like Hindus discussing Islamic matters with such impunity. I just don't like it @ admin.

 

[MilSpec]

Well, Islam is not a religion which tolerates adulteration of its basic principals! We are not like Christians who say ok we can make room for that pagan ritual oh yes that Easter bunny and father Christmas can come in too...and 2000yrs down the road the religion is unrecognizable as compared to the original 1

That is indeed an interesting take, So you want to ensure that Islam according to the scribes of Zayd ibn Thabit which might be Vol.1 of the quran should be followed in todays day and age.


the question still remain is that most of the data about prophets in islam comes from the quran, which was not written by god or the prophet, but compiled after the prophets death. So is there a rational possibility of him being misquoted, or his words taken out of context.

I don't like Hindus discussing Islamic matters with such impunity. I just don't like it @ admin.

And why is that? Discussing islamic matters need to be punished ?

 

[KingMamba]

Islamic scripture can not be changed. Any change in the even the basic principles of Islam means abandoning the religion itself.
And by refusing Prophet Muhammad being the final Prophet, Ahmadis have made their choice pretty clear.

There is no objection to believing whatever one wants, the problem is against a forceful insertion into Islamic mainstream that Ahmadis desire. One is either a Muslim or a Chirstian or a Hindu or a Jew or atheist. You can't be a Jew and atheist at the same time, can you?

Ironically Ahmadis do not want to be included in the mainstream, if you read some of their works they have already concluded they are right and everyone else who is non ahmadi is kuffar decades before they were declared non muslim. It is just topi drama on their part and nothing more.

 

[nastikan]

Yes. It's better that way. To do what suits the time you live in. I csnt imagine Hindus following all the cr@p written in Hindu scriptures.

 

[KingMamba]

I don't like Hindus discussing Islamic matters with such impunity. I just don't like it @ admin.

It is always funny when they think they know something but they lack basic knowledge of Islamic theology.