No place for Ahmadis in Imran Khan’s Naya Pakistan

[Meesna]

if their is no control sects and cult type religious people will rule.if they clearly don't fit on basic definitions or are practicing their own made religious practices how can they be accepted of followers of that religion

Correct! Exactly why Shias are being brutally murdered every day as Deobandis do not consider them Muslim and Islam needs to be cleansed.

 

[Sedqal]

because islam is not a religion, it is a kind of political, social and constitutional ideology. more like a cult.

Excuse me? Cult has two defining characteristic, size of population which adheres to it and veneration of a single person or object. A political, social and constitutional ideology, as you put it, is a complete opposite of a cult.

 

[Dubious]

It might be a stupid question, but stupid questions are base of understanding grand concepts. Hence I asked did prophet muhammad write the quran, or did his wife write it, or did she compile the data which was written by others in form of scriptures into a standard book. Who exactly wrote the book. I think it is a simple enough question deserving a simple answer.

read what @RazorMC wrote...

and read the following if you are interested and have time...I am done from work and heading home:

The Compilation of the Qur’an | Islamic Writings

http://www.daralislam.org/portals/0/Publications/TheQURANHowitwasRevealedandCompiled.pdf

 

[muse]

muse kindly research and study the concepts of mirza ghulam ahmed qadiyani before blaming reasonlessly the right decisions taken by Ulemas..
i have studied his concepts and i can't even mention here how shameless they are...specially how god meet him....if I do then admins will ban me...

Slav it's not about like or admire or approve -- they are who they are, their dogma, their doctrine is not the issue, we are neither ulema nor mashaiak, we are only discussing the morality of a political decision - See on the basis of our beliefs and understanding, we see ourselves s worthy of salvation, and we can have our private judgments, however, matters of politics become public issues of morality and we should be far sighted - when citizens of Pakistan are not equal before the law, we have a problem - we have in essence the state behaving as if it were takfiri, this is not what the state and law is for.
Today this political move has been used against a group, tomorrow it may be used against another, there is already the Lej , the SSP and that notorious ASWJ, they too may agitate and the net result is that we may end up like iraq and Syria - we give our enemies weapons to use against us with such behaviour

 

[ajpirzada]

It might be a stupid question, but stupid questions are base of understanding grand concepts. Hence I asked did prophet muhammad write the quran, or did his wife write it, or did she compile the data which was written by others in form of scriptures into a standard book. Who exactly wrote the book. I think it is a simple enough question deserving a simple answer.

we Muslims believe that it was God sent in the form of divine revelations. So no human is its author but only God. The text was written in the time of the Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him and his family) and was compiled in a single book form by the third Caliph of Islam (Uthman) which was around 10 years after the death of the Prophet.

 

[Meesna]

So are you saying the Quran is wrong ??

Muslims are killing each other over misinterpretation of the Quran no Muslim says the Quran is wrong though.

If Quran is open to misinterpretation then all bets are off as they say. Anyone can believe anything they like, nothing is 100% certain relating to Quran's interpretation.

 

[pkuser2k12]

Correct! Exactly why Shias are being brutally murdered every day as Deobandis do not consider them Muslim and Islam needs to be cleansed.

you didn't quote my full post garbage tribune

here it is try to understand

see the people calling them Christians in usa and running for election like mr romney who is morman and has another prophet beside HAZRAT ESSA(A.S)[PROPHET JESUS(A.S) ] but still calls him a christian.the yanki dodal bush who is member of skull and bones and his cousin john carry they clam they are Christians and are member of above cult type societies

if their is no control sects and cult type religious people will rule.if they clearly don't fit on basic definitions or are practicing their own made religious practices how can they be accepted of followers of that religion

you keep ranting now

 

[Sedqal]

If Quran is open to misinterpretation then all bets are off as they say. Anyone can believe anything they like, nothing is 100% certain relating to Quran's interpretation.

Bara he Meesna larka hai yeh

 

[sur]

Why did this alcoholic-Bhutto miss missed declaring grave-interceders as non-Muslims.
I am NOT advocating this, just making a point that if anyone deserves to be declared non-Muslims, they are Mushriks who intercede ppl in graves. & those who believe 12 Imams receive divine revalation. & those who believe Ali split the moon.


Do you ignorant even know what kind of stuff these other sects have made up??? To eager to declare Mirzais non-muslims while ignoring even more grave things that other sects have fabricated..???

Why don't you parhay-likhay-jahil take it to street & declare ALL these ppl Kafir too & make it into constitution. Their sin is even bigger than fault of Ahmadis...


Is ALLAH greater or the Prophet???

Ones who wronged finality of Prophethood, you rush to declare them non-Muslims, but those who commit Shirk with ALLAH why don't you open ur mouth against them??? May be ALLAH does not deserve that mush respect in ur sight...???


Those who insult ALLAH by committing SHIRK, you haven't declared them non-Muslims, so in your sight ALLAH is of lesser value???





Watch from 4:00+. It was a political decision.
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Zulfiqar Bhutto Declared Ahmadiyya Non Muslims Politically 1974 Constitution, had Miserable End - YouTube

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Ahmadis are at fault, just like grave-interceder-Brailvis are at fault, just like Shias are at fault when they say 12 imams receive divine revelation & that Ali split the moon, Just like Wahabis are gravely mistaken in certain things,,, BUT they are all Muslims

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk28VTzEjjE

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1>http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...imran-khan-s-naya-pakistan-3.html#post4237129
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2>http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...imran-khan-s-naya-pakistan-6.html#post4237954

 

[Meesna]

Excuse me? Cult has two defining characteristic, size of population which adheres to it and veneration of a single person or object. A political, social and constitutional ideology, as you put it, is a complete opposite of a cult.

Certainly early Islam with the prophet at its helm satisfies your definition of a cult. In fact every religious group at its inception is a cult according to you from Adam till now.

here come the stupid.keep ranting

Bolti band hu gui? No reasoning left to respond with? Must be well trained by Taliban Khan.

 

[RazorMC]

...
See on the basis of our beliefs and understanding, we see ourselves s worthy of salvation, and we can have our private judgments, however, matters of politics become public issues of morality and we should be far sighted - when citizens of Pakistan are not equal before the law, we have a problem - we have in essence the state behaving as if it were takfiri, this is not what the state and law is for.
Today this political move has been used against a group, tomorrow it may be used against another, there is already the Lej , the SSP and that notorious ASWJ, they too may agitate and the net result is that we may end up like iraq and Syria - we give our enemies weapons to use against us with such behaviour

Pakistan declaring Ahmadis as Muslims is not going to change the fact that mainstream Islam is not going to accept them.

When equality before law is concerned, the only discriminating factor is wealth, not religion. A poor salafi is just as likely to face problems as a poor Ahmadi when seeking justice.

 

[pkuser2k12]

Bolti band hu gui? No reasoning left to respond with? Must be well trained by Taliban Khan.

try and read my full post rant corp.

see the people calling them Christians in usa and running for election like mr romney who is morman and has another prophet beside HAZRAT ESSA(A.S)[PROPHET JESUS(A.S) ] but still calls him a christian.the yanki dodal bush who is member of skull and bones and his cousin john carry they clam they are Christians and are member of above cult type societies

if their is no control sects and cult type religious people will rule.if they clearly don't fit on basic definitions or are practicing their own made religious practices how can they be accepted of followers of that religion

itna waqt kesay zaya kar koi teray saath laga reh shabash

mayn nay kabi aik lafz nae bola shia bahiyon k khilaf

asal mayn tujay media nay andha behra kar dia hay bas baat parhatay hi wesa jawab dayta hay.tera qasoor nae

meri sari baat quote karni thi akhri sentence quote kar k apni asliyat dikha di censer board

 

[muse]

Pakistan declaring Ahmadis as Muslims is not going to change the fact that mainstream Islam is not going to accept them.

When equality before law is concerned, the only discriminating factor is wealth, not religion. A poor salafi is just as likely to face problems as a poor Ahmadi when seeking justice.

There must be some sort of comprehension problem -- the issue is not accepting them or not accepting them - the issue is equality before the law -- you can despise them all you like, but does that mean we can rob them of equality before the law?? Pakistan was created because of the fear of tyranny of the majority, how would Muslims fair in majority Hindu India, right?? And look at what we have ended up doing, we have become a tyrannical majority -- is that what we started out wanting to be??

 

[Sedqal]

Certainly early Islam with the prophet at its helm satisfies your definition of a cult. In fact every religious group at its inception is a cult according to you from Adam till now.



Bolti band hu gui? No reasoning left to respond with? Must be well trained by Taliban Khan.

Even in early Islam the veneration was of God not Muhammad (PBUH). It was declared very early on that Islam was continuation of same message as that of Abraham, Moses and Jesus. Mainstream Islam was never a cult

 

[livingdead]

Pakistan declaring Ahmadis as Muslims is not going to change the fact that mainstream Islam is not going to accept them.

When equality before law is concerned, the only discriminating factor is wealth, not religion. A poor salafi is just as likely to face problems as a poor Ahmadi when seeking justice.

So, money is constant factor,poor will be discriminated in the subcontinent everywhere.
In India if you are from minority sect/religion you will face discrimination by majority for being different
In pakistan, you will face discrimination for all above reason + govt codified law.