News on Pakistan's F16 Block/50 or 52

[Super Falcon]

Im very very confused in 2005 PAF ordered 70 new F 16 fighter jets block 50 or 52 which looks like to uae block 60 i mean avionics greece has f 16 block 50/52 which has its body like UAE F 16 any way after few months PAF reduced the number from 70 to 40 and from those 40 PAF got only 4 which dont look like block 50/52 which greece has it is very very confusing can some one have any news when do PAF get remaining fighter from USA and till now those 40 how many we got till the date and why they dont look like block 50/52 grecce F 16 body is similar F 16 UAE why PAF F 16 block 50/52 dont look like the same please reply

 

[mean_bird]

Im very very confused in 2005 PAF ordered 70 new F 16 fighter jets block 50 or 52 which looks like to uae block 60 i mean avionics

I am afraid you have got it all wrong. PAF did NOT order 70 F-16 blk 52 at all. PAF had negotiated for F-16 blk 52+ but actually ordered only 18 of them because of earthquake in 2005. The rest (one squadron) is an option if PAF wills, but PAF did not order them. In short, as of today, PAF has ordered only 18 blk 50/52+ F-16. They are NOT block 60, the only thing that looks like UAE block 60 is the conformal fuel tanks (those bulges at the side), but not in terms of avionics/radar.

greece has f 16 block 50/52 which has its body like UAE F 16 any way after few months PAF reduced the number from 70 to 40 and from those 40 PAF got only 4

No, PAF does not have a single blk 52 as of now.

which dont look like block 50/52 which greece has it is very very confusing can some one have any news when do PAF get remaining fighter from USA and till now those 40 how many we got till the date and why they dont look like block 50/52 grecce F 16 body is similar F 16 UAE why PAF F 16 block 50/52 dont look like the same please reply

NOthing is confusing but you haven't been following the F-16 discussion.


Let me clear this:

PAF ordered 18 blk 50/52+ with CFT which makes them look like UAE blk 60 but they are block 50/52+. PAF has option of more but they haven't ordered because of financial condition.

PAF recieved 14 USAF F-16 , which were originally built for PAF during 80s but sanctioned). Those are older blocks (blk 15) and do not have CFT thats why they do not look like UAE blk 60. They are used ones not new ones.

4 ( or maybe 2 i dont remember) out of those used 14 are currently going MLU in the US to be brought almost equal to blk 50/52 but they will not have CFT. The rest of the MLU will take place either in turkey or PAC with turkish help.

The 18 new F-16 blk 52 (which have CFT and look like Greece and UAE planes) will start arriving from mid of 2010 through 2011 which is also the scheduled for the completion of MLU on older ones. All that , of course, is if everything goes smoothly according to plan.

You got the numbers totally wrong...its just 18 new blk 50/52+, 32 existing ones with PAF that will go through MLU, and 14 given by USAF (which were originally built for PAF) that will also be given MLU.

Hope that is clear.

 

[mean_bird]

Since many questions have been asked repeatedly about this, and many doubts raised. I decided to open a new thread on this. I have posted some of these information before, but they get buried in the pile of posts and people ask it again and again. Hopefully, they will serve as a comprehensive link here for people to refer to.

The F-16 deal is comprised of 3 parts:

1. The deal on the new 18 block 50/52+ F-16s
2. The deal on arms and ammunition
3. The deal on FALCON STAR upgrade and MLU of existing PAF F-16s

Let me take them one by one below

 

[maverick2009]

That Means 62 F16/52 in total in PAF colours by 2011 all being well.

And a quantum leap in fire power...

 

[mean_bird]

The program for the new blk 52 is as follows:

"Pakistan presently operates forty-six F-16A/B aircraft. Thirty-two of these aircraft remain from the original forty aircraft that Pakistan bought in the 1980s. Since 2005, the USAF has transferred fourteen Excess Defense Article (EDA) F-16A/B aircraft to Pakistan. The current Pakistan F-16 program is composed of three Letters of Offer and Acceptance (LOAs).

The first LOA providing for the production of eighteen F-16C/D Block 52 aircraft is underway:

- four aircraft will be ready in June 2010;
- four aircraft in August 2010;
- five aircraft in october 2010; four aircraft in Dec 2010;
- and, one aircraft in December 2011.

It is important to note that none of the aircraft will be delivered to Pakistan until the Administration ensures that Pakistan is in compliance with the LOA security notes, and the Administration has so advised Congress."

 

[mean_bird]

"The second LOA provides for munitions and includes:

- 500 AIM-120C-5 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM);
- 750 Mark-84 2000 lb General Purpose bombs;
- 700 BLU-109 2000 lb Penetrator bombs;
- 500 Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAM) tail kits;
- 1600 Enhanced Guided Bomb Unit 3 (EGBU) kits;
- and assorted bomb fuzes and support equipment.

These weapons will be available for delivery to Pakistan beginning in June 2010. However, I would like to emphasize that none of these weapons will be delivered until Pakistan complies with the LOA security notes and the Administration reports compliance to Congress."

 

[mean_bird]

The third LOA provides for the Mid-Life Update (MLU) of their current fleet of forty-six aircraft: four of these aircraft are in Fort Worth undergoing Trial Verification Installation, which is part of the MLU program. Under the MLU LOA, Pakistan is procuring Falcon STAR structural upgrade kits for the thirty-two original F-16A/B aircraft and thirty-five MLU avionics upgrade kits for the current fleet (including three of the recently transferred EDA aircraft).

There is an option on the contract to procure eleven additional MLU avionics upgrade kits for the remaining eleven aircraft. Pakistan has not yet exercised this option, but plans to do so at a future date. The Falcon STAR structural upgrade is very similar to that provided to other F-16A/B customers. Falcon STAR replaces critical structural components in the F-16 required to return the A/B airframe to a structural life of 8,000 spectrum hours. Falcon STAR is required to keep the original thirty two PAF F-16A/Bs air worthy.

The Pakistan MLU avionics upgrade kits are being designed to provide the Pakistan Block 15A/B aircraft with many of the same capabilities as the new Block 52 F-16s that the PAF is procuring.

The MLU kit replaces most of the 1980s avionics in the Block 15s with newer, advanced avionics systems from the Block 52 F-16s. The MLU upgrade kits will include:

- APG-68(V)9 radar;
- Embedded GPS/INS (EGI);
- Link-16 data link;
- APX-113 Advanced Identify Friend or Foe (AIFF);
- Color Cockpit with Color Moving Map;
- ALQ- 211(V)9 Advanced Integrated Defensive Electronic Warfare Suite (AIDEWS) Pod;
- Night Vision Imaging System (NVIS) Cockpit and External Lighting;
- Sniper Advanced Targeting Pod;
- Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System (JHMCS);
- Reconnaissance Pod capability;
- improved avionics systems;
- JDAM capability;
- EGBU capability;
- AIM-120 AMRAAM capability;
-and AGM-84 Harpoon capability.

While many of the avionics systems and capabilities are common with the new Block 52s and the MLU, some significant differences remain between the MLU F-16 Block 15s and the new PAF Block 52: there are no improvements to the Block 15s mission range and loiter time; there are no engine improvements; and, there are no improvements to payload capacity. Overall, the MLU program will extend the service life of Pakistan’s original F- 16 aircraft and very significantly increase the capability of the Pakistan Air Force to conduct Close Air Support and night precision attack missions. I would like to highlight that in parallel with the significant improvement in weapon accuracy gained by precision guided munitions like JDAM, there is the potential to dramatically reduce collateral damage and civilian casualties.


Regarding program status, the first four MLU aircraft are undergoing work in Fort Worth, Texas now. The USAF schedule for delivery of these aircraft is December 2011. The delivery dates for the remaining aircraft are being refined due to the recent stop work.

 

[maverick2009]

It is important to note that none of the aircraft will be delivered to Pakistan until the Administration ensures that Pakistan is in compliance with the LOA security notes, and the Administration has so advised Congress."

What will Pakistan have to do top ensure the above is met

 

[mean_bird]

Here's the online link to the source of the above information: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/110/wie091608.pdf


So here you go, that's the complete deal and that's the details of of Sept. 2008. The only thing about a delay being mentioned is the MLU but not on the new blk 50/52+.

 

[Munir]

The program for the new blk 52 is as follows:

"Pakistan presently operates forty-six F-16A/B aircraft. Thirty-two of these aircraft remain from the original forty aircraft that Pakistan bought in the 1980s. Since 2005, the USAF has transferred fourteen Excess Defense Article (EDA) F-16A/B aircraft to Pakistan. The current Pakistan F-16 program is composed of three Letters of Offer and Acceptance (LOAs).

The first LOA providing for the production of eighteen F-16C/D Block 52 aircraft is underway:

- four aircraft will be ready in June 2010;
- four aircraft in August 2010;
- five aircraft in october 2010; four aircraft in Dec 2010;
- and, one aircraft in December 2011.

It is important to note that none of the aircraft will be delivered to Pakistan until the Administration ensures that Pakistan is in compliance with the LOA security notes, and the Administration has so advised Congress."

The difference between ready and delivered is still big. Sometimes it needs months of "testing" (it is just qualification and earning some extra cash) before transit... As Chinese do... We will be happy when we get the first and after that they can keep the rest this time.

 

[Arsalan]

The difference between ready and delivered is still big. Sometimes it needs months of "testing" (it is just qualification and earning some extra cash) before transit... As Chinese do... We will be happy when we get the first and after that they can keep the rest this time.

well this is the actual point, they are ready to give us every thing but they are NOT GIVING!!

originally posted by mean bird
It is important to note that none of the aircraft will be delivered to Pakistan until the Administration ensures that Pakistan is in compliance with the LOA security notes, and the Administration has so advised Congress."

dont you think this is the core problem, in 2010 we WONT fulfill these requirments then the US will ask us to do more and delay the deal to 2015 and so on!

no personal offense but sir these americans have been following this strategy for decades,,
you have said that the block 52 were never delayed rather they were scheduled for 2010, as i have already said, i wish this is true but i know it is not!
i personally listened the news saying the US congress Delays the deleivery of F16 block 52 to pakistan as they think they are to be used against india rather then the taliban!!

 

[a1b2c145]

Im very very confused in 2005 PAF ordered 70 new F 16 fighter jets block 50 or 52 which looks like to uae block 60 i mean avionics greece has f 16 block 50/52 which has its body like UAE F 16 any way after few months PAF reduced the number from 70 to 40 and from those 40 PAF got only 4 which dont look like block 50/52 which greece has it is very very confusing can some one have any news when do PAF get remaining fighter from USA and till now those 40 how many we got till the date and why they dont look like block 50/52 grecce F 16 body is similar F 16 UAE why PAF F 16 block 50/52 dont look like the same please reply

Who cares! cos they can't be made in Pakistan!!!! we should focus on JF-17which can be made in our county,that's important!!!

 

[mean_bird]

The difference between ready and delivered is still big. Sometimes it needs months of "testing" (it is just qualification and earning some extra cash) before transit... As Chinese do... We will be happy when we get the first and after that they can keep the rest this time.

Haha..nice one!

But as mentioned above, there is no difference in terms of technology on the MLU or the blk 52, so in that case whichever comes first.

PAF would really like to have all of them.

well this is the actual point, they are ready to give us every thing but they are NOT GIVING!!

dont you think this is the core problem, in 2010 we WONT fulfill these requirments then the US will ask us to do more and delay the deal to 2015 and so on!

no personal offense but sir these americans have been following this strategy for decades,,
you have said that the block 52 were never delayed rather they were scheduled for 2010, as i have already said, i wish this is true but i know it is not!

Why would I take any offense... I am not an American and I also do not have much (read any) trust in them.

i personally listened the news saying the US congress Delays the deleivery of F16 block 52 to pakistan as they think they are to be used against india rather then the taliban!!

Well, I have stated an authentic source that mentions the delivery dates as 2010. If you can find an equally credible source that says these were to be delivered before but got delayed, then that would be an addition to my knowledge. I certainly have not come across any such thing except some people crying why we haven't received them in 2009 when we were not supposed to, in the first placed.



I think you are confusing with the MLU. If you remember, the (new ex) ACM also mentioned 2010 as the date of the new F-16s. It was the MLU and the FMF that was delayed because after granting the FMF, and when PAF wanted to use it for the ammunition and MLU, they said the pentagon has to "approve" the use of FMF for this. But, hey...that was their money and they surely did play tricks with it.

Again, if you have some references to new blk-52 getting delayed, I would love to see them.

As far as whether we will get the blk 52, I have stated my thoughts in the F-16 thread.

 

[Arsalan]

posted by Mean BirdWhy would I take any offense... I am not an American and I also do not have much (read any) trust in them.

ha ha, no, actually unintentionally we have been arguing at various topics a number of times, there are many posts like this, so i just wanted to excuse and keep the tempratures cool!
nice to read you comment, i really appreciate it!

posted by Mean Bird
Well, I have stated an authentic source that mentions the delivery dates as 2010. If you can find an equally credible source that says these were to be delivered before but got delayed, then that would be an addition to my knowledge. I certainly have not come across any such thing except some people crying why we haven't received them in 2009 when we were not supposed to, in the first placed.

well could'nt this be a case of miss calculation, i gues this is the report that was deleivered after the deleivery of block 52 was delayed by congress and it says the deleivery to start by 2010, this is the point to which i also agree that the delay made by congress says the deleivery to start by 2010 so i guess this report is after that bill was passed in the US congress!

on part of reference of my info, i just have to go through bundles of news papers, but it was in the paper "THE NEWS", also i heared to it on PTV. anyhow i will try my level best to find any reference material!

regards!

 

[maverick2009]

Does this mean PAF TODAY has limited or virtually no BVR capability..

The current 44 block a/b F16 are WVR planes only with a good but standard APG63 radar only.