Muslim first or Pakistani ?

[Neo]

Reopened after receiving several sincere requests. But I'll be watching this thread, donot hi-jack the topic to degrade the forum or its valued members.

Thanks!

 

[Bull]

Reopened after receiving several sincere requests. But I'll be watching this thread, donot hi-jack the topic to degrade the forum or its valued members.

Thanks!

No posts. I guess nobody wants to post under your eyes. Go to sleep dude.

 

[Contrarian]

Thankyou for opening the thread Neo. I hope it does not have to be closed again.

Kashif. This is a direct question for you, and i would appreciate it if others dont start giving their views and inputs till atleast Kashif has posted a reply.

Since you have stated that you would put your religion first. Tell me, when things come at a percieved cross-road for you as an Indian and as a Muslim what would you do? Would you go AGAINST the Country or stay quiet on the Religion.

I give you an example as well. Do you think Kashmir should be given to Pakistan or made an independent state? Let me give you the respective stands as well.

India thinks this as a completely wrong notion, which would be extremely detrimental to the nations integrity to give away Kashmir in any form.

However, the Mullah's in Kashmir are asking every Muslim to come together and unite against India.

What is your answer. And try to be honest, dont give a diplomatic answer that pleases all. I think all of us here understand what such an answer means.

In my second example, i give you the example of Pakistan. Would you go to war against Pakistan, would you sacrifice your life for the country in a war, when the Muslim clergy's and many other such influential Muslim people ask you to side with Pakistan. You know that this happens, there are Muslims in this country who support Pakistan, there are those who would at the time of war, ask every muslim to unite against India. There are others also, who would die for this country. I seek an honest reply to this.

Again, others, please dont give your own inputs to this. Let this thread not be closed again.

 

[solid snake]

I don't think in terms of religion or ethnicity. If someone asks me what I am, I am a Pakistani and only a Pakistani.

I am not a mohajir or a sunni or a Muslim, I am a Pakistani and that's it.

I think Pakistan discriminates against it's minorities through it's laws. I had Hindu and Christian friends in school in Karachi. Why can't they grow up to be Prime Minister or President of Pakistan? They were born in Pakistan and they are just as much Pakistani's as I am or any other Muslim is.

The Quaid had said all people will be EQUAL citizens of the state. Are Hindus and Christians equal citizens of Pakistan today? NO!

Religion + Politics = BAD

 

[thorosius]

This question mostly comes up when there is talk of sacrificing one against the other.
But I think they are interlinked i.e Pakistan and being Muslim. If one is lost there is no chance the other will remain.

 

[blitz]

There is no such thing as 'they are the same, or they are equally important'. There is always a 'more and less', might be very subtle, but it is there.

 

[ahussains]

Muslim First always in any conditions then the Pakistani... Any thing will happend even ours heads been cut off we never have to forget who we are the last Ummat ....

 

[Adux]

pakistan is headed for disaster

 

[Chrome9]

pakistan is headed for disaster

That's been said many times in the history of this 60 year old nation, but somehow this country refuses to die... It's been through everything imaginable.. Wars, embarogoes, coups, dictatorships, civil war and break up of a east Pakistan... but still has never tasted outright defeat..

 

[nina]

I don't think in terms of religion or ethnicity. If someone asks me what I am, I am a Pakistani and only a Pakistani.

I am not a mohajir or a sunni or a Muslim, I am a Pakistani and that's it.

I think Pakistan discriminates against it's minorities through it's laws. I had Hindu and Christian friends in school in Karachi. Why can't they grow up to be Prime Minister or President of Pakistan? They were born in Pakistan and they are just as much Pakistani's as I am or any other Muslim is.

The Quaid had said all people will be EQUAL citizens of the state. Are Hindus and Christians equal citizens of Pakistan today? NO!

Religion + Politics = BAD

country comes first religion comes later.
pakistani first and then what ever it is.
religion means nothing to me its a matter of personal choice and to do with inner peace and spirituality it means nothing else to me...........

 

[Awesome]

I will stop being either, when anyone of them is at odds with the other.

To be a Pakistani is not mutually exclusive to Islam or vice versa.

But If you put a gun to Islam's head and ask me to shoot Pakistan, I wouldn't. Vice versa? I wouldn't.

With a gun in my hand I'd go guns blazing to shoot the hostage taker... Pakistan is an idea, an ideology more than a country/piece of land. There is neither first nor second. It's an all or none, type of situation.

 

[nina]

i agree with snake.

 

[Awesome]

There is no such thing as 'they are the same, or they are equally important'. There is always a 'more and less', might be very subtle, but it is there.

If you put a gun to a parent's child and ask him or her to shoot the other child, would the parent do it?

Countries and Religions apparently are more important.

A simple concept for people who believe that your life determines your afterlife.

 

[KashifAsrar]

Thankyou for opening the thread Neo. I hope it does not have to be closed again.

Kashif. This is a direct question for you, and i would appreciate it if others dont start giving their views and inputs till atleast Kashif has posted a reply.


What is your answer. And try to be honest, dont give a diplomatic answer that pleases all. I think all of us here understand what such an answer means.


Again, others, please dont give your own inputs to this. Let this thread not be closed again.

Thanks for your PM and this question. There was a weekend here in gulf. That's the reason in delay to reply. More over the saturdays are always very busy for me in the office.

Since you have stated that you would put your religion first. Tell me, when things come at a percieved cross-road for you as an Indian and as a Muslim what would you do? Would you go AGAINST the Country or stay quiet on the Religion.

Although I put some what simmilar questions, though indirectly, to blitz about how hindus think of Indian muslims. Any way, you asked me, here is my answer.

Any situation where my religious belives and practices are threatened, I would oppose it.

I had put it in earlier post that Indian muslims are most demorilised lot in the country. I want to put it in bold guys: My religion NEVER come in the way of my nationality. If you see then we have fought atleast three wars with Pakistan. And if you further explore then you will find that the 'HIGHEST PERCENTAGE' of soldiers who sacrificed thier lives in those struggle were muslim even as close to as Kargil War.
http://www.haryana-online.com/WarHeroes/kargil_martyrs.htm
http://www.kashmir-information.com/Heroes/
Despite the fact that the muslim percentage is pathetically low in armed forces.

Consider the decade-old statistical data with the National Commission for Minorities: the Assam Rifles has 2.5 per cent Muslims, the Border Security Force 4.54 per cent, and the Indo-Tibetan Border Police 1.81 per cent.
http://www.hindu.com/2006/02/20/stories/2006022006591100.htm

But we are the proud contributors to safe gaurd the sovergniety, integrity and freedom of our country. Consider this one:

The case of granadier Amiruddin from Mainpuri, Uttar Pradesh, is quite tragic. He wrote to his daughter from the Front that you fill in your matriculation form and do not wait for me. I will come after a few days when the conflict is over. Amiruddin had written this letter to her daughter on 26th June which reached her on 4th July. She had hardly finished reading this letter and the Family was given the news of the death of Amiruddin on the battle front. He died fighting continuously for 72 hours, the family was told. When preparations for his burial were being made Amiruddin's daughter was saying with moistened eyes, "Papa, I will also join army when I grow up and will take revenge from the enemies for your death." It touched the hearts of all those present.

Similarly the father of martyr Rizwan Ali Tyagi, Abdul Khaliq said, on hearing the news of martyrdom of his son, I am proud of my son and I will try that my four other sons also join the army and lay down their lives for defense of our country.
http://ecumene.org/IIS/csss18.htm

But people still have the 'COURAGE' to ask this question, never ready to belive the truth!
By the way 'WOULD YOU ELABORATE WHEN INDIA IS GOING TO BE AT WAR AGAINST ISLAM AND IF YES THEN HOW?' Hypothetical situations do not have any clear cut questions/answers!

I give you an example as well. Do you think Kashmir should be given to Pakistan or made an independent state? Let me give you the respective stands as well.

India thinks this as a completely wrong notion, which would be extremely detrimental to the nations integrity to give away Kashmir in any form.

Kashmir problem is older than my age! And most probably yours as well!
As far as breaking the country was concerned, I am still in oppositions to 1947 partition. Kashmir has become an integral part of the country since independance. Muslims are not the only people living in Kashmir. Hindus and Bodh are a sizable chunk as well. Being a muslim majority state in India, do not make Kashmir a default case ready to fall in the lap of Pakistan. I suppoort my government view fully on Kashmir.

However, the Mullah's in Kashmir are asking every Muslim to come together and unite against India.

I am not a Mullah from Kashmir!
We have to be open and honest in listening to the grievnces of Kashmiris and provide a timely solution. This was the 'FEAR' I talked about in the last post. Sense of neglect create devils that can not be put back in to bottles easily. We have to admit that even till 1980s, before the start of full fledged millitancy, Kashmir was one of the most under-developed region of the country, and remain so till date!

In my second example, i give you the example of Pakistan. Would you go to war against Pakistan, would you sacrifice your life for the country in a war, when the Muslim clergy's and many other such influential Muslim people ask you to side with Pakistan. You know that this happens, there are Muslims in this country who support Pakistan, there are those who would at the time of war, ask every muslim to unite against India. There are others also, who would die for this country. I seek an honest reply to this.

I have already given the answer to your first question about going to war with Pakistan.
By the way, can you point a single maulvi/mullah from India outside kashmir, who ever asked Indian muslims to go in favour of Pakistan? Can you point even single muslim who, as you claim, EVER SUPPORTED PAKISTAN IN A WAR WITH INDIA? Contrary to this I can give names of Mullah/Maulvis (Who you fear most) supporting the struggle and war against Pakistan.

I have a few questions as well, malaymishra123 and blitz. If you permit me I can put them to you both in expectation of an honest answer and then in search of common ground between two largest communities in India?
Kashif

 

[Contrarian]

Thanks for your PM and this question. There was a weekend here in gulf. That's the reason in delay to reply. More over the saturdays are always very busy for me in the office.

No problem mate.

Although I put some what simmilar questions, though indirectly, to blitz about how hindus think of Indian muslims. Any way, you asked me, here is my answer.

Mate you are right. There are those who have laid down their lives for India against Pakistan, but there are those who have vehemently supported Pakistan as well. I remember once i was near Jama Masjid in Delhi, and when Pakistan had won a cricket match against India, people were lighting firecrackers and celebrating. I also remember people having rallies in India and chanting "Pakistan Zindabad".

Sadly, its the ugly side that is most noticed, thats just the way it is.

Any situation where my religious belives and practices are threatened, I would oppose it.

I had put it in earlier post that Indian muslims are most demorilised lot in the country. I want to put it in bold guys: My religion NEVER come in the way of my nationality. If you see then we have fought atleast three wars with Pakistan. And if you further explore then you will find that the 'HIGHEST PERCENTAGE' of soldiers who sacrificed thier lives in those struggle were muslim even as close to as Kargil War.
http://www.haryana-online.com/WarHeroes/kargil_martyrs.htm
http://www.kashmir-information.com/Heroes/
Despite the fact that the muslim percentage is pathetically low in armed forces.

But we are the proud contributors to safe gaurd the sovergniety, integrity and freedom of our country. Consider this one:

I have no doubt, and i have never doubted the contributions of Indian Muslims towards India's progress in every sphere which includes national defence. You dont need to give me 'links' on the internet to know that. I give you another prominent example, President Kalam is a Muslim but he played no small role in ISRO and DRDO when India was developing the missiles and SLV's.

But people still have the 'COURAGE' to ask this question, never ready to belive the truth!
By the way 'WOULD YOU ELABORATE WHEN INDIA IS GOING TO BE AT WAR AGAINST ISLAM AND IF YES THEN HOW?' Hypothetical situations do not have any clear cut questions/answers!

Kashmir problem is older than my age! And most probably yours as well!
As far as breaking the country was concerned, I am still in oppositions to 1947 partition. Kashmir has become an integral part of the country since independance. Muslims are not the only people living in Kashmir. Hindus and Bodh are a sizable chunk as well. Being a muslim majority state in India, do not make Kashmir a default case ready to fall in the lap of Pakistan. I suppoort my government view fully on Kashmir.

I am not a Mullah from Kashmir!
We have to be open and honest in listening to the grievnces of Kashmiris and provide a timely solution. This was the 'FEAR' I talked about in the last post. Sense of neglect create devils that can not be put back in to bottles easily.

Yes i agree, but then again, i revert to my first answer. Its the bad part that comes to light first and then becomes a stereotype. There are Indian Muslims who have openly supported Pakistan. I have still not forgotten how Imam Bukhari of Jama Masjid openly said that he is an agent for ISI and he dares the Indian govt to try and arrest him. These things happen as well.

And every month you find some Muslim was caught with documents regarding the Army's positions, etc, etc intending to give it to Pakistan.

We have to admit that even till 1980s, before the start of full fledged millitancy, Kashmir was one of the most under-developed region of the country, and remain so till date!

Yes, that is a major part of the problem. But personally i feel that the govt is realising that now and the region is developing now.

I have already given the answer to your first question about going to war with Pakistan.
By the way, can you point a single maulvi/mullah from India outside kashmir, who ever asked Indian muslims to go in favour of Pakistan? Can you point even single muslim who, as you claim, EVER SUPPORTED PAKISTAN IN A WAR WITH INDIA? Contrary to this I can give names of Mullah/Maulvis (Who you fear most) supporting the struggle and war against Pakistan.

I know of Maulvi's who have supported India to go against Pakistan, and i do know of Mauvi's who have supported Pakistan actually.

I have a few questions as well, malaymishra123 and blitz. If you permit me I can put them to you both in expectation of an honest answer and then in search of common ground between two largest communities in India?
Kashif

Please by all means put up your questions and i will reply them honestly, this is my word since you have stated specifically about an honest answer.

P.S: You can call me Malay