More than 300 PAF Mirages & F-7s will be retired in future. A huge market indeed.

[dadeechi]

no nuclear weapons, then what will we do with those F16s?

US is not asking Pakistan to give up it's nuclear weapons. The proposal was to support CTBT & FMCT in return for massive support with regards to Pakistan's the conventional weapon needs.

 

[Eagle Claw]

300 Plus Aircrafts Retirement is a Big Problem to focus on by Pakistan. JF-17 Thunder is offering Alot in terms of self reliance and an extra ordinary Weaponry. But still we lack Air Superiority Platform in our Airforce to add a Punch and Deep Striking element. For that Su-35 is really Crucial, if Not Su-35 then opt for J-15/J-11D. 40-50 Heavies are much needed in PAF.

Instead of Replacing all 300 Aircrafts with JF-17 Thunder. It would be wise to limit it to 175 Pieces because it gets easy to decode the strength of Airforce if it only posses a single type of Bird. For Rest 125 Birds, PAF should look for 50-60 Re-furbished Mirage 2000s, as the Payload and Strike element they provide is Exceptional. Along with it 60-70 J-10B will do fine.

175 ---> JF-17 Thunders
50-60 ---> Mirage 2000s (Re-furbished)
60-70 ---> J-10B
40-50 ---> Su-35/J-15/J-11D
100 ---> F-16s

 

[abdulbarijan]

M nor saying that we need to Replace these 300 jets right now but till next 10-15 years JFT is still gonna keep on adding taking places of old ones but still we will need 3rd platform in PAF sooner or later

I think you didn't get my point ... I'll try to state my position a little better ...

-The assumption of the OP is that Pakistan has to replace 300 fighter aircrafts

-My first point was squadron strength can vary...hence we don't need to plug in 1 fighter jet for every fighter jet that we replace... (we have 11 squadrons that need replacement )

-My second point is (that I made in post #74) the assumption of OP of us needing to replace exactly 300 aircrafts is also false. He must've taken the sum of every aircraft that we have inducted and summed up the total number of mirages/F-7p/pg's that we had inducted... while not considering the ones that we replaced with other aircrafts ...

while such methodology is okay for a general comparison or making sense of things ... it is no good here, because it does not give us a picture that reflects reality ..

So for instance, we inducted 120 F-7 P's and 60 PG's ...

we currently only have 2 servicing F-7 P squadrons ... ( 4 were effectively replaced by jets such as JFT, Blk-52 and PG's)

These 4 squadrons at an average squadron strength of 20 AC/sqd would be 80 F-7P's that have already been replaced

Hence that number that seemed 300 right off the starting line is reduced by an effective 80 i.e 300 reduced to 220 ... In other words ... If we pay attention ... the number is alot less then 300 that needs to be replaced ..

My last point is, even if we have to sacrifice a limited number of aircraft per squadron, we should do it because what we're getting vs. what we're replacing analysis somewhat resoundingly favors having new airframes with a generation capability difference with the addition of the jet being a multirole aircrafts vs more or less a specialist/limited role aircraft ...

 

[dadeechi]

J-31 is not soon.

So, F-16s, JF-17s, EF-2000 & Rafaels are good choice. But I think PAF will opt for Grippen too if ME starts to supply funds like they are doing for Egypt, Libya, Jordan and may be some other countries. If happens then PAF should go for:
32 F-16s Block-52s
50 EF-2000
50 Rafaels
50 Grippen NG
45 Jordanian F-16s + Upgrade program for 45+16 Jordanian + 14 US supplied F-16s MLU-3/MLU-4 program.

Also go for trainers like:
100 Platius or any other Basic Trainer from US-Canada-EU
50 Alenia Aermacchi M-346 Master
50 BAE Hawks
20 used C-27s
20 used C-130s from ME (as it will be free)
8 P-3Cs from US (with 3 of them having Hawkeye-2000s fitted)
Helicopters that are available from ME to be brought in Pakistan

I would like Pakistan to have
2000 squadrons of battle stars.
300 squadrons each of F22 and F35.
Su 35. F15 . Stealth version. F18, EFT,J11Z,J10X etc
And then we buy all the F16s as EDAs coming from EU and USAF. Buy the boneyard in. Arizona wheee all the planes are stored and refurbish all of them. That way we will have enough for the defence of our country. BUT WAIT. WHY ARE THESE PEOPLE TAKING AWAY MY COUNTRY. OH I BORROWED MONEY FROM THE LOAN SHARKS AND I DONT HAVE A COUNTRY ANYMORE. BUT I DO HAVE A STRONG AIR FORCE. LETS LIVE IN THE BATTLE STAR AND CONQUER MARS AND BUILD COLONIES AND FROM THERE WE WILL SIT AND DIRECT OUR DOO DOO TOWARDS INDIA AND THE US AND THE EU AND AND AND AND.
A

300 Plus Aircrafts Retirement is a Big Problem to focus on by Pakistan. JF-17 Thunder is offering Alot in terms of self reliance and an extra ordinary Weaponry. But still we lack Air Superiority Platform in our Airforce to add a Punch and Deep Striking element. For that Su-35 is really Crucial, if Not Su-35 then opt for J-15/J-11D. 40-50 Heavies are much needed in PAF.
Instead of Replacing all 300 Aircrafts with JF-17 Thunder. It would be wise to limit it to 175 Pieces because it gets easy to decode the strength of Airforce if it only posses a single type of Bird. For Rest 125 Birds, PAF should look for 50-60 Re-furbished Mirage 2000s, as the Payload and Strike element they provide is Exceptional. Along with it 60-70 J-10B will do fine.
175 ---> JF-17 Thunders
50-60 ---> Mirage 2000s (Re-furbished)
60-70 ---> J-10B
40-50 ---> Su-35/J-15/J-11D
100 ---> F-16s

Pakistan should look at having the following which would be very realistic and a force to be reckoned with

240 - JF17s
160 - F16s
80 - SU-35s

 

[Muhammad Omar]

I think you didn't get my point ... I'll try to state my position a little better ...

-The assumption of the OP is that Pakistan has to replace 300 fighter aircrafts

-My first point was squadron strength can vary...hence we don't need to plug in 1 fighter jet for every fighter jet that we replace... (we have 11 squadrons that need replacement )

-My second point is (that I made in post #74) the assumption of OP of us needing to replace exactly 300 aircrafts is also false. He must've taken the sum of every aircraft that we have inducted and summed up the total number of mirages/F-7p/pg's that we had inducted... while not considering the ones that we replaced with other aircrafts ...

while such methodology is okay for a general comparison or making sense of things ... it is no good here, because it does not give us a picture that reflects reality ..

So for instance, we inducted 120 F-7 P's and 60 PG's ...

we currently only have 2 servicing F-7 P squadrons ... ( 4 were effectively replaced by jets such as JFT, Blk-52 and PG's)

These 4 squadrons at an average squadron strength of 20 AC/sqd would be 80 F-7P's that have already been replaced

Hence that number that seemed 300 right off the starting line is reduced by an effective 80 i.e 300 reduced to 220 ... In other words ... If we pay attention ... the number is alot less then 300 that needs to be replaced ..

My last point is, even if we have to sacrifice a limited number of aircraft per squadron, we should do it because what we're getting vs. what we're replacing analysis somewhat resoundingly favors having new airframes with a generation capability difference with the addition of the jet being a multirole aircrafts vs more or less a specialist/limited role aircraft ...

i already got you your point sir g... from the very first post of yours

 

[majid mehmood]

guys
paf can have 100 of j10 c in 2020 for only $3.4 billion
and then 150 jf 17
100 f16 by buying surplus from us or jordan
so then only paf can give iaf a good punch

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Pakistan should look at having the following which would be very realistic and a force to be reckoned with

240 - JF17s
160 - F16s
80 - SU-35s

highly unlikely....

we would have 100-110 F-16's Currently 78... 8 expected to come making them 86...
150 JF17's will be delivered till 2018 currently having 54...

i don't think that big number of Su-35 is coming to Pakistan but still have to see ACM Sohail visit to Russia next month there will be 36 Su-35 or 0 we'll find out next month...

PAF will get J-10C when the Platform gonna mature and gets the needed improvements (Comparable to F-16's)

 

[danger007]

No..... i was highlighting India's Naval wing there....

India's naval wing consists 45 migk.. those Tejas are additional to these Migs and 3rd CBG consists either Rafael or F 35... and Tejas are flying. .. I hope you concentrate on your jn 17 more...

guys paf should procure a 36 heavy planes ( eg su 35 j11d) which would cost around $3.4 billion and 42 j 10 c which would cost around only $1.6 billion
total add up would be around 5 billion dollars and while jft are adding a up paf will become one of the best air force
when su 35 was being offered the Russian was giving 12 plane per billion dollar means 3 billion for 36 but there would be more spare parts required so i gave .4 billion more for missile and spare parts
in the future paf fleet will
82 f 16
250 jfts
42 j10
36 su 35
total planes = 420
which will be enough to give a punch to indian airforce even with there fgfa as its rcs is only 0.5m2 which is more for a stealth plane and su 35 radar detects 0.01m2 at 90 km which means 0.5 m2 at 150 km fgfa having a good radar is useless because the missile integrated can only reached 150 km (of course the range is more but nobody fires it at max because at 75% missile range the missle has hit range of only 5-10%) so su 35 is ideal choice

What an analysis. .. you simply make fgfa useless with few words... wah

 

[dadeechi]

highly unlikely....

we would have 100-110 F-16's Currently 78... 8 expected to come making them 86...
150 JF17's will be delivered till 2018 currently having 54...

i don't think that big number of Su-35 is coming to Pakistan but still have to see ACM Sohail visit to Russia next month there will be 36 Su-35 or 0 we'll find out next month...

PAF will get J-10C when the Platform gonna mature and gets the needed improvements (Comparable to F-16's)

What I stated is both probable and possible. At the end of the day, it depends on what choices that Pakistan would make.

 

[waz]

Sorry to be off topic as usual but

@waz

May I ask why you want the F-18 in Pakistani colours ?

-Pakistani experience with US jets.
-Current strong ties.
-Pakistan navy requirement, the F/18 is the best around.
-Cross platform via the F/16 e.g. AMRAMS.

Is it feasible, not quite.

 

[Omega007]

150 JF17's will be delivered till 2018 currently having 54...

That would be highly unlikely at current rate of induction!!

 

[Muhammad Omar]

That would be highly unlikely at current rate of induction!!

Well many PAF officials told that the production rate per years will be increased by 25 jet and some JFT's are also being build in China .... so you never know we will find out this in 2018

 

[Omega007]

Well many PAF officials told that the production rate per years will be increased by 25 jet and some JFT's are also being build in China .... so you never know we will find out this in 2018

In that case,it is very much possible.

 

[massattack]

How true are the rumors that US is offering local production of F16s for the nuclear deal? If true then going for additional 150 F16s makes most sense.

No negotiations on our nuclear capacities ever unless all of the nuclear powers are going for it aswell

 

[majid mehmood]

India's naval wing consists 45 migk.. those Tejas are additional to these Migs and 3rd CBG consists either Rafael or F 35... and Tejas are flying. .. I hope you concentrate on your jn 17 more...




What an analysis. .. you simply make fgfa useless with few words... wah

i am not telling completely useless
fgfa could enter pak airspace easily
but if in a bvr engagement it make su 35 can detect fgfa around 140 km
while missile good range is 140-150 km so in this sense i am telling fgfa would be some useless
even jammers are taken into account when the ols are same so su 35 would be wise choice for paf