Killing India’s hidden ‘Cold Start’ strategy

[Pagla Dashu]

So who's the smarter one? The guy who is doing the psyops, or the guy who 'plays along' with the psyops to build up his strength?

The one who is doing the psyops, because it leads the opponent to misplace its priorities. Duh.

Isn't it what psyops is all about?

 

[Developereo]

The one who is doing the psyops, because it leads the opponent to misplace its priorities. Duh.

Isn't it what psyops is all about?

We know our priorities just fine.

Just because we are fighting the TTP doesn't mean we are taking our eyes off India. Just because we use India's CSD as an excuse for military preparedness doesn't mean we have to actually believe in CSD. For us, CSD is a convenient excuse (i.e. gift) provided by India to justify certain moves.

 

[Bang Galore]

So who's the smarter one? The guy who is doing the psyops, or the guy who 'plays along' with the psyops to build up his strength?

The assumption there is that the guy ostensibly indulging in psy-ops is doing only that & is not actually building up his strength(in a known direction i.e. cold start or in a completely different direction using the cold start doctrine for misdirection)

In any case, I'm more than a bit bemused by all this criticism of cold start coming from Pakistanis. Do you actually expect that an Indian War doctrine would be something that you would like? The more disliked it is by you guys, the better! Cold start or any other doctrine authored by Indian strategists is meant to satisfy Indian interests, not massage Pakistani sensibilities.

I do not claim to know all about cold start except for whatever information is available in the public domain but from what I have read, it seems a sensible change of tactic from the previous doctrine. Time is of the essence & anything factoring that in the plans is commendable. All doctrines need to be revisited in changed scenarios & necessary changes made.

Almost all those Pakistanis who are critical of the Indian doctrine are never so concerned with the prevention of the events that might trigger the use of this or any other doctrine i.e. another Mumbai style attack or something similar. If that was the case, there would be more calls to shut down the likes of LeT,JeM & the like who might actually bring this to a pass thus risking exposing both countries to a cascading series of events leading to conflict.

 

[Developereo]

In any case, I'm more than a bit bemused by all this criticism of cold start coming from Pakistanis.

Let's put it this way. It doesn't matter whether CSD exists or not. What matters is that it is a bargaining tool for Pakistan when the US asks us to 'do more' on the Western front. In that sense, it is India's gift to Pakistan.

 

[rockstarIN]

Let's put it this way. It doesn't matter whether CSD exists or not. What matters is that it is a bargaining tool for Pakistan when the US asks us to 'do more' on the Western front. In that sense, it is India's gift to Pakistan.

And do you think Uncle Sam is so dumb to believe it?

 

[Pagla Dashu]

We know our priorities just fine.

Just because we are fighting the TTP doesn't mean we are taking our eyes off India. Just because we use India's CSD as an excuse for military preparedness doesn't mean we have to actually believe in CSD. For us, CSD is a convenient excuse (i.e. gift) provided by India to justify certain moves.

Bang Galore has already hinted what misplaced priorities may mean.

As with using CSD as an 'excuse for military preparedness', what was your 'convenient excuse' before 2001, before the idea of CSD was first floated?

See where I'm going with this?

 

[Developereo]

And do you think Uncle Sam is so dumb to believe it?

Depends how good your psyops guys are. You think you have fooled Pakistan into believing it. Do you think you have fooled Uncle also?

Bang Galore has already hinted what misplaced priorities may mean.

As with using CSD as an 'excuse for military preparedness', what was your 'convenient excuse' before 2001, before the idea of CSD was first floated?

See where I'm going with this?

The past is past. We use the tools available at any given time to achieve our objectives. CSD is the tool of the moment.

As for preventing terrorism and containing radicalism, those are top priorities but they do not detract from defence against India. We can, and should, focus on both.

 

[Pagla Dashu]

Let's put it this way. It doesn't matter whether CSD exists or not. What matters is that it is a bargaining tool for Pakistan when the US asks us to 'do more' on the Western front. In that sense, it is India's gift to Pakistan.

A reply to Santro, but works here as well.

Bit of a contradiction here.

If CSD is a ‘flat tyre’, like you say it is, it is impossible to believe that US (that’s the country you mean by ‘international politics’, don’t you?) is not aware of it. If you say that the bogey of CSD is still helping you in negotiating with US, it means US is dumb, or they are just letting that perception permeate within Pakistani establishment; meaning US considers Pakistani leadership, that includes military leadership, as dumb. Not a very acceptable proposal, yes?

So, if CSD is working for you in your ‘international politics’, does that mean CSD may have some meat in it forcing your international partners (read US) to empathize with your concern?

Take a pick. You can’t have it both ways.

 

[Developereo]

Since none of us are high level military officers, we don't know if CSD exists, so all we can do is analyze the possibilities.

A- Both the US and Pakistan believe (rightly or wrongly) that it exists.
B- Only Pakistan believes it.
C- No one takes is seriously.

Clearly, C is not the case so that leaves A and B. And, guess what? it doesn't matter whether the US believes it or not as long as they play along. As long as they believe that Pakistan takes it seriously, it serves as a negotiating tool. They can think we are fools or dumb, we don't care, as long as it achieves our objectives.

 

[Pagla Dashu]

The past is past. We use the tools available at any given time to achieve our objectives. CSD is the tool of the moment.

In other words it is irrelevant to India, if you use CSD as your 'tool' for furthering your agenda or use the excuse of alien invasion with death ray guns, because you would use anything to hang your hat from.

So how is India losing out on the psyops side of the CSD, as you are so desperately trying to prove.

 

[Developereo]

So how is India losing out on the psyops side of the CSD, as you are so desperately trying to prove.

Psyops is only successful if your target isn't on to you. Otherwise he turns the tables and uses your psyops for his own benefit. As Pakistan is doing.

And the worst part is, India can't even deny it now. It would look like a monumental fool if it came out and said, "there is no CSD and there never was." Pakistan would just shrug it off.

And if it turns out that CSD is real, Pakistan is still doing the right thing. Either way, we win.

 

[sensenreason]

I don't like to be member of useless conversation as many doing showing their wordy capabilities but i know one thing that India must be understand with open eyes, open mind & open ears that;

True warriors are sitting in Pakistan and by east borders sitting only Singers & drum beaters so

in any matter i believe on history and than look further, like;

considering the history we know that who rules the Hindostan long time and you know…… they were KHANS & FROM THE ORIGIN FROM Pakistan & Afghanistan & Mongols.


India has big country:
i accept
India has big army
i accept
India has quantitative weapons
i accept

but

Pakistan has qualitative, deep harm effective army & weapons enough to tackle India.

No more to say Thanks.

All figment of your imagination.Incorrect and all future arguements invalidated. Thanks, end of conversation.

 

[Rafi]

Pakistan's armed forces are well on the way to being modernized, the US and China are both providing billions of dollars of assistance in state of the art weaponry and communications equipment. This has enabled us to retain parity with india, without increasing our defence budget drastically.

 

[I FLY HIGH]

That is very wrong way of looking at it...Of course one should listen to the Army however the final authority should be in the hands of Civilian govt.

If we go by what Armed forces say then US will not pull out from AF for another 10 years. Do you think that is right decision???As per news around Kargil, that plan was rejected by then PM Mrs Bhutto but the moment Army got its say a blunder like Kargil was tried. how much damage it caused the little we talk better it is....In short Army way of dealing with issue is by Iron hand which may or may not be right. Thus final authority should lie with democratic set-up where there are many check and balances

Both Army and Govt should be on the same page , If your General is saying he wants something very vital to build for rapid response , he should be listened ,because he has to fight against enemy and not those politiians. If your politicians do not listen , very bad.

 

[deckingraj]

Both Army and Govt should be on the same page , If your General is saying he wants something very vital to build for rapid response , he should be listened ,because he has to fight against enemy and not those politiians. If your politicians do not listen , very bad.

Where did i say they should not be on same page. I am saying that final authority should be in hands of civilian govt because diplomacy is civilian responsibilty. Geo-political pros and cons will be looked upon by civilian govt and if military action is required then military should be called for.