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Killing India’s hidden ‘Cold Start’ strategy

Where pakistan went wrong...

Thought i'd put this into perspective.
I am a new forum member and i have been avidly reading the entries from various users with different viewpoints. I think the geo political scenario at the present is much different than what it was in the 50’s or the 60’s, when both rival states had equal footing and did not possess any tactical or economic superiority over the other. The situation is much different as a new age dawns.

In the light of truth i think we can safely assume and ….im sure the pakistani counterparts would agree, that india is at a much stronger position economically and militarily and is now a force to be reckoned with in the international scene. Why hasnt pakistan who used to counter indian advancements with advancements of their own failed to reach the same status as india in the 21st century?

Lets examine shall we?…

India was in a retrogressive path up until the 90’s. Infact the situation was so terrible that there was a real chance pakistan could launch an invasion plan and succeed. The indians were swamped with embargos from foreign states save russia. Techonology transfer to india was considered unthinkable to the americans. In fact India remained the underdog until the 90’s and swamped through with the sole support of few nations such as russia. Whereas pakistan revelled in the comfort provided by their all powerful ally the “United States of America”. Tech transfers, military support etc were all given to pakistan without reserve.

After the 90’s India, under the guidance of then financial minister Manmohan Sigh launched a series of economic reforms that transformed the nation from a backwater swamp state to a formidable economic force by the dawn of 21st century. The power of these economic reforms propelled india to a new age. Reforms and the backing of the billion strong indian population gave india the boost it was looking for.

Pakistan however resorted to underhanded tactics trying to destabilize india instead of trying to reform their own economy in response. Instead of launching economic reforms of their own they resorted to printing fake indian currency, lobbying in the foreign law making institutions to further hinder india, etc etc. Infact so much effort was spent on trying to “contain” india that the pakistani leaders forgot to look to their nations well being. They found comfort in magnifying the “indian threat” instead of simply trying to ressurect theuir heavily burdened economy.

A major fault with the pakistani establishment is that the military is the real factor controlling the nation. A true democracy was never allowed to flourish under the pakistani system. Every once in a while one crack-pot general would decide the system is falliable and take over. Sending the country in a spiralling descent into anarchy and poverty. Once he starts stabilising the country another nut job would decide to take over. The cycle repeats over and over again. Pakistan could never attain stability as a democratic entity. And lack of stability resulted in a stagnant economy where investing was considered very risky, not because of stock fluctuations…but because of the fear of losing everything as a result of some national crisis.

When assailed with neuclear embargos and trade restrictions, india struggled. But at the same time the indians made it a point to develop their own indigenous systems so they would be able to perform their needs without having to rely on others. When super computers were denied…they made their own. When nuclear technology transfer was prohibited, they created their own fast breeder reactors. When space technology was denied , they launched their own space programmes.

What does pakistan do when denied? Think about it. All they have done is whine in the international stage about how they were being denied . Pakistan instead of trying to bridge relations, tries further to destabilise its rising neighbour all the while ignoring their own internal struggles.

There is a stark contrast between the indian preception of pakistan and the pakistan preception of india. All the while pakistani leadership spreads propoganda about the “indian threat” and plants seeds of hate and insecurity in the pakistani youth about the non-existent threat; the indian youth dont even care. They have hopes, dreams and aspirations, and petty rivalaries are beneath them. As Pakistanis seem to assume; there are no “anti pakistan” speecehes being made all over india. Infiact there is a growing sympathy to the pakistani struggles. Infact the one thime pakistan was coming under the flood, prayer grups were being organised in various parts of india to pray for the victims of the flood. Undeniably both the RAW and the ISI tries to deter one another. But the difference is, the whole pakistani national effort is spent on trying to contain “india”. Whereas in India only a small effort is being expended on this regard, while the bulk is being set to reforming the national infrastucture, economy and education.

Think hard and deep before flamming me for this post but in the light of truth, these are facts and undeniable.

Regards
Styx.

o oh ... dude , you better be

1. ready to prove to are pakistani
2. ready to face some tough comments
 
:) Lot of emotions and empty chest thumping in your post...However failed to see the size of the post to which i replied...anyhow since you are a little young i can understand the adrenaline flow...b/w did you count those 800 words..lol...

Also since you are final year under-grad student i do believe what you are doing is correct.....stay away from such debates and concentrate on your studies...as far as oldies like us is concerned then look at the volume of posts on multiple threads by various members..it will give you an inclination how much this forum is part of daily lives of people...Anyways my advice kid, don't waste time here and go do the reading...will help you big time in your life....

Oh i wouldnt bother reading that long post.. the 800 words was a mere assumption..

So whose worthless in life? an undergrad kid posting on his home county's defence Forum.. ORR

An UNCLE whose got no life, no job and therefore alot of time on his hand to go around and post on a rival country's DEFENCE FORUM... and try to prove something.. lol. Alright uncle I LL PAY ATTENTION TO MY STUDIES..

But why dont you go find yourself something better todo aswell instead of ttrying to lecture KIDS. PERHAPS a job where u can make urself useful. oh wait.. finding a job in INDIA? impossoble lol
 
Oh i wouldnt bother reading that long post.. the 800 words was a mere assumption..

So whose worthless in life? an undergrad kid posting on his home county's defence Forum.. ORR

An UNCLE whose got no life, no job and therefore alot of time on his hand to go around and post on a rival country's DEFENCE FORUM... and try to prove something.. lol. Alright uncle I LL PAY ATTENTION TO MY STUDIES..

But why dont you go find yourself something better todo aswell instead of ttrying to lecture KIDS. PERHAPS a job where u can make urself useful. oh wait.. finding a job in INDIA? impossoble lol

Whatever floats your boat kido...but do you see how difficult is to back off once you are in debate???

B/W you still need to prove your worth and if finding a job in India is difficult i don't even want to comment the stakes in Pakistan, so time for yet another uncle's advice - Be something before point fingers and keep mum especially when you know nothing about the person in question....Anyhow you please carry on with nuisance and consider this as my last reply to off-topic debate.....and yes unlike a kid full on adrenaline i will be sane and civil, so good bye and good luck with your life!!!
 
@deckingraj
Learn to ignore people who are not discussing worthful. Your last post could have been avoided.
 
@Xeric

Respected brother,

Why do you waste so much time arguing with "the enemy"? You are a Pakistani soldier your job is to kill the enemy not debate them. Now, I do agree you may also debate and argue at times as you are free to express your views, but this "debate" is excessive and not leading anywhere is it?

Exactly it isn't necessary for a real soldiers like Xeric to indulge in useless with fan boys or keyboard warriors whose main intention is to gain some thanks with their pathetic lengthy posts full of rants and ridiculous analogies. The guys who never picked up a rifle in their real are now posing as defence experts with their relevantly better english speaking capabilities due to their past experience of employment in call centres.The debate isn't going anywhere and is just a waste of space of this forum. :)
 
small tactical nukes exploded in sub-atmosphere will take good care of infiltrating IA terrorist...but make sure to evacuate Pakistani border villages intime.
 
Exactly it isn't necessary for a real soldiers like Xeric to indulge in useless with fan boys or keyboard warriors whose main intention is to gain some thanks with their pathetic lengthy posts full of rants and ridiculous analogies. The guys who never picked up a rifle in their real are now posing as defence experts with their relevantly better english speaking capabilities due to their past experience of employment in call centres.The debate isn't going anywhere and is just a waste of space of this forum. :)

Hey..dont paint all of us as call center execs...just like Im not painting you as hijab supporters !

Indians give too much credence to 'talk' as I can vouch from experience. I guess it comes from a culture where asking for change brings about a quick rebuke from current incumbents and a belief that most wars can be won on the strategy board rather than on the ground.
 
My Simple Reason to say that the " COLD START " is indeed in Defense dept of India.

Else it makes lot of people this much F.E.A.R.

Shown by the length and breath of the Forum discussion in PDF:welcome::pdf:
 
not fear; but alarm and a need for effective action and response

the fact that we and the world know about it don't make it so cold anymore....

we held High Mark Military exercises and the services demonstrated their capability to defend the nation in the event of such an ill adventure --which will only bring you pain and zero gain

as this is a ''hot topic'' and a forum with scores of members, it is inevitable that a thread like this will reach this length
 
My Simple Reason to say that the " COLD START " is indeed in Defense dept of India.

Else it makes lot of people this much F.E.A.R.

Shown by the length and breath of the Forum discussion in PDF:welcome::pdf:

Sigh... needless to say from this one post it highlights you have nothing of value to contribute to a very topical and intriguing debate, this is not about fear but about "tactical advantages" and "options". Just like BRF is full of lengthy posts about Baluchistan and WANA.

So lets just leave it at that shall we.
 
Think hard and deep before flamming me for this post but in the light of truth, these are facts and undeniable.

Regards
Styx.

I agree that most of your post consists of facts which are undeniable, yet it does not cover all points of views hence it is incomplete. What looks like a six to you may look like a nine to me. Both of us may be correct simeltaneously.

I believe that this is a decent post that deserves a response.

Where pakistan went wrong...

Thought i'd put this into perspective.
I am a new forum member and i have been avidly reading the entries from various users with different viewpoints. I think the geo political scenario at the present is much different than what it was in the 50’s or the 60’s, when both rival states had equal footing and did not possess any tactical or economic superiority over the other. The situation is much different as a new age dawns.

In the light of truth i think we can safely assume and ….im sure the pakistani counterparts would agree, that india is at a much stronger position economically and militarily and is now a force to be reckoned with in the international scene. Why hasnt pakistan who used to counter indian advancements with advancements of their own failed to reach the same status as india in the 21st century?

Lets examine shall we?…

India was in a retrogressive path up until the 90’s. Infact the situation was so terrible that there was a real chance pakistan could launch an invasion plan and succeed. The indians were swamped with embargos from foreign states save russia. Techonology transfer to india was considered unthinkable to the americans. In fact India remained the underdog until the 90’s and swamped through with the sole support of few nations such as russia. Whereas pakistan revelled in the comfort provided by their all powerful ally the “United States of America”. Tech transfers, military support etc were all given to pakistan without reserve.

After the 90’s India, under the guidance of then financial minister Manmohan Sigh launched a series of economic reforms that transformed the nation from a backwater swamp state to a formidable economic force by the dawn of 21st century. The power of these economic reforms propelled india to a new age. Reforms and the backing of the billion strong indian population gave india the boost it was looking for.

Pakistan however resorted to underhanded tactics trying to destabilize india instead of trying to reform their own economy in response. Instead of launching economic reforms of their own they resorted to printing fake indian currency, lobbying in the foreign law making institutions to further hinder india, etc etc. Infact so much effort was spent on trying to “contain” india that the pakistani leaders forgot to look to their nations well being. They found comfort in magnifying the “indian threat” instead of simply trying to ressurect theuir heavily burdened economy.

Things may have changed for India but for Pakistan not much has changed. The injustices of the Radcliffe award meant that Pakistan was a born a crippled state. Many including Prime Minister Nehru did not expect that we would survive, but we did. We did so by by becomming relevant to the United States of America. As we are becomming more relevant we are becomming more powerful. India on the other hand was born with economic and military superiority, no one ever doubted India's survival. The portions in bold clearly show that you admit that India's phathetic position is due to its own incorrect descisions . Pakistan's action were the requirement of a economically and military crippled state trying to survive in a hostile environment.

A major fault with the pakistani establishment is that the military is the real factor controlling the nation. A true democracy was never allowed to flourish under the pakistani system. Every once in a while one crack-pot general would decide the system is falliable and take over. Sending the country in a spiralling descent into anarchy and poverty. Once he starts stabilising the country another nut job would decide to take over. The cycle repeats over and over again. Pakistan could never attain stability as a democratic entity. And lack of stability resulted in a stagnant economy where investing was considered very risky, not because of stock fluctuations…but because of the fear of losing everything as a result of some national crisis.

When assailed with neuclear embargos and trade restrictions, india struggled. But at the same time the indians made it a point to develop their own indigenous systems so they would be able to perform their needs without having to rely on others. When super computers were denied…they made their own. When nuclear technology transfer was prohibited, they created their own fast breeder reactors. When space technology was denied , they launched their own space programmes.

What does pakistan do when denied? Think about it. All they have done is whine in the international stage about how they were being denied . Pakistan instead of trying to bridge relations, tries further to destabilise its rising neighbour all the while ignoring their own internal struggles.

This is our strength not our weakness. Your politicians are just as useless as ours. At least we have some means to check them in Pakistan.

There is a stark contrast between the indian preception of pakistan and the pakistan preception of india.All the while pakistani leadership spreads propoganda about the “indian threat” and plants seeds of hate and insecurity in the pakistani youth about the non-existent threat; the indian youth dont even care. They have hopes, dreams and aspirations, and petty rivalaries are beneath them. As Pakistanis seem to assume; there are no “anti pakistan” speecehes being made all over india. Infiact there is a growing sympathy to the pakistani struggles. Infact the one thime pakistan was coming under the flood, prayer grups were being organised in various parts of india to pray for the victims of the flood. Undeniably both the RAW and the ISI tries to deter one another. But the difference is, the whole pakistani national effort is spent on trying to contain “india”. Whereas in India only a small effort is being expended on this regard, while the bulk is being set to reforming the national infrastucture, economy and education.

This a deliberately created misconception. The fact is that as of today India is not a global power US and China are. Pakistan through minimum effort has so far neutralized India's effort to become a global Power and both the US an d China have helped us do this. On the other hand we are becomming more and more relevant to the real super powers US and China. India is hence depent on its own resource being managed by own currupt leaders. Pakistan on the other hand due to it's strategic importance has the support of the Super Powers hence it is able to do better than India. Just wait for the winter season, more people will die of cold in India as compared to Pakistan who then is doing better??
 
Most dont. Most citizens are genuinely concerned about an imminent "attack", "invasion", and "annexation" from india.Even if the rest of the political machine fails, the propoganda machine rages on. Some of these theories and ridiculous but quite capable of inciting fear in the hearts of an honest illiterate. The truth is there is very little sense in invading pakistan. Annexing a nation full of enemies would be a tactical blunder.
This is what most of us Indian members want to convey; why would we take additional 180 million people and annex their land? We are already having an explosive population growth still (some analysts say to become the largest on earth by 2040), we aren't rich enough to entertain another 180 million people, add to that the international liabilities that Pakistani economy has which after an imaginary annexation would be added to our account.

There is absolutely no sense in us annexing and I can say that even the most far right-wing nationalist thinker in India doesn't intend to annex Pakistan. There is simply no gain in this. The Cold Start-counter that is the main topic in this threat is to defend against an already quasi-defensive policy which will be solely intended in case there are simultaneous large-scale attacks like Mumbai massacre or India is simultaneously invaded from both sides: a reactive strategy more than a proactive one. Under normal circumstances, there will never be any war.

This thinking that "India will invade" maybe was a concept in 70s and 80s but today the time has moved ahead and priorities have changed for everyone. As I said, not even the most far-right thinking person intends to annex Pakistan.

You are really mature to have understood this truth. :)
 
small tactical nukes exploded in sub-atmosphere will take good care of infiltrating IA terrorist...but make sure to evacuate Pakistani border villages intime.
This is the third time "nukes" is referred to. Don't you get it, man? Anyone using nuclear weapons even the size of an RPG round means having crossed the nuclear threshold.

Again, you need to know the implications that are behind launching nukes. USA hit Imperial Japan with the nukes because Japanese didn't have them. Had Japanese had it, the WW2 would have continued for another 10 years conventionally.
 

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