Jayalalithaa calls for a referendum on separate Eelam

[bronxbull]

@KS

1. I don't know what rage boy means.Probably to you it means anyone who does not conform to you.Not being tamil may make me not empathize with eelem sentiment but there is nothing for me in supporting Sri lanka.At worst i am making observation from neutral prespective.

2. You people cannot support your main claim ie "Sri lankans are killing TN fisherman in 100's".

In this thread http://www.defence.pk/forums/centra...lankan-players-barred-playing-chennai-15.html i had asked @Indian Tiger to support claim of 100's of dead fishermen



to which he replied



His own link states that there are 85 casualties in 10 years which include 7 years of civil war.

Why do you expect people to believe when the only proof is polemical.

3. Indian fishermen have no right to fish in Sri lankan water.The fact that they have to fish in sri lankan water irrespectivly is a sad product of populism.Indian trawlers have destroyed marine ecosystem in Palk bay because government provided them subsidies.

4. Students have always acted as stormtroopers of TN politicians. So expecting concession on that count is futile.

5. Being a student does not allow you to be ignorant.These students have been brainwashed with manufactured lies.Tamil diaspora in britain even employed a "Gun for hire" television station to make dubious videos.Even i would have been convinced by it had i not known Channel 4's history.

6. The fact that Rest of India has some secret conspiracy against TN is a self made fantasy or else rhetoric bordering to stupidity coming from DMK would have been reciprocated.The whole exclusive tamilian supremacist ideology propagated by DMK would be given a bubblebath if people start quoting Max Muller and Nietzsche and there is a lot of material on that too.

7. Being an emotional ignorant does in no way excuse ignorance.

8. On kaveri issue,going by natural justice,karnatka is right in its stance.They have got much less water that they deserve base on treaty signed by wadiyar dynasty and British.

If you are not satisfied by tribunal award and want to revise the treaty keep in mind that while karnatka having 42% basin area got 37% in final award,TN on other hand with 54% of area has got 58%.And that too also because both are part of India.If you are bent on secession then be sure that your demand on Cauvery waters do not stand a chance in any court.

On the Kaveri issue,

I dont know how but the lowlands were always better irrigated than the highlands in Coorg/Mysore.

But that decides things.

 

[KS]

stop saying BIMARU this and that,

These posts are usual secessionist posts which dont understand the real situation,

I dont give credit to any of these student protests.I give lesser and lesser credibility to most Arts colleges of Madras and like many people know,they do not have a educated view or idea of the situation even though they are just naive and emotional and not as stupid as the St Stephen's morons and some others of their DU ilk.

Indian Navy gives the SL navy a free hand purely for 2 reasons,

first is that there is now ay to find out whether the fishermen are innocent or are they helping the fringe LTTE elements still left,there are so many people who came to India boarding the ferry/ships from Yaazhpanam/Point Pedro and land up in Nagapattinam.

The coast guard at Rameshwaram is not able to distinguish between the LTTE supporters and normal fishermen and if you want my opinion,most fishermen are catholic and the links between LTTE and the Catholic Church are real and dangerous.

Second reason is the fishing thing,most of the fish in Indian waters are already dead due to the use motored trawlers and typical fishing nets and the fishermen have to go the srilankan side to get better returns of fish and this is a problem.

The Srilankans have banned these nets and they dont want Indian Fishermen poaching in their waters and killing their fishes.

These two topics combined make the Indian government keep quiet.

The LTTE has lot of supporters in Nagapattinam/Pattukottai/Thiruvarur/Cuddalore belt and even upto Pondicherry and many Tamils of Jaffna also migrated from here before and the support fairly extends upto Trichy,most Jaffna Vellalars have also settled in Trichy if not Madras.

Now coming onto the other argument,the DMk has avidly developed a clear xenophobia about North India/Hindi speaking states since the 1965 anti hindi agitations and the hostile atmosphere some north indians might perceive in Chennai especially is due to this factor.

Their primary target is Tamil brahmins as they continued to speak sanskrit/chant vedas/vegetarian lifestyle which is shared only by 2-3 communities especially the saiva vellalars/pillaimaars.

So they become aliens in their own land,the tamil brahmins have been in TN for much longer than most of the telugu castes who are in it.

But many TBs are also in this Tamils first/why hindi and no hindi propaganda of the DMK.

So,that argument which says we are tamils for 2000 years is pure comedy,

There are many Telugu castes and they are not necessarily Tamils for 2000 years.

But there are many people who are indeed Tamil only for 2000 years and my family from near the Kerala-Tirunelveli-Kanyakumari border is much more Tamil than most of the Telugu castes/Muslims of TN.

This crowd wants to put tamil first etc etc and it is a pure political posturing and they dont knw **** about most of the tamil literature which itself was reclaimed by U.ve Swamithan Iyer known as Tamil Thatha.

Most of the self less,great leaders of TN starting from Bharathiyar/Kamaraj/Rajaji/Muthuramalinga Thevar/our Karthik's very own patron saint Hon.Dheeran Chinnmalai were all largely nationalists and not linguistic chauvinists precisely because they already they are Tamil and they are cool,they are not insecure dravidar kazhagam people who have no other achievements to feel good about,so they keep most of the populace in a time warp and a sticky linguistic chavinism garb just so that they can make their money and keep their power.

Most Tamils regardless of caste feel this and realize this and know the real faces of these people.

They also say that most of TN is neutral and that's not true,

70% of the voters are with DMK/ADMK exclusively and the rest with some smaller parties.

Most of the people cant make a decent living and hate both the parties but align themselves due to the lack of other livelihood.

Thats all there is to it.

Your post is highly biased because of some decades old issue that is disappearing now. You typed this post not as a Tamilian, not even as an Indian, but as a ________. So since your primary frame of reference is that, no matter what I say, it would not find resonance with you.

So I would like to disagree with you, say this is not what people in TN feel, that these posts are the actual reflection of most of the people on the ground and move on.

p.s: Your stance on the anti-hindi imposition agitations is pure bull ****. We did what we had to do. Period. We were opposed to forced imposition of Hindi. But even today Hindi is available in schools to children who want to study that. How many Northern states teach Tamil or even one southern language in their curriculum. You may worship Hindi and Sanskrit, but they mean nothing to me. Absolutely nothing.

 

[Bang Galore]

On the Kaveri issue,

I dont know how but the lowlands were always better irrigated than the highlands in Coorg/Mysore.

But that decides things.

That means nothing. Even if TN farmers grew 3 crops as opposed to Karnataka farmers, how does that automatically entitle a TN farmer to make more money as opposed to a Karnataka farmer eking out an existence. I point this out only to show the hollowness of that argument. If the Kaveri tribunal has decided something & the Central government notified it, we must learn to accept it (sometimes with a heavy heart & feeling hard done) and move on. There will never be a decision that satisfies everyone. The SC has held something similar in the Mullaperiyar dam case too.That acceptance of a decision on national interests however should also be true in other matters. No one in Kerala or Karnataka talks secession the moment a decision goes against them. That should hold true for everyone in India.

 

[SamantK]

Because we (as in Indians) are by nature regionalistic and like think of other state problems as ours.

And you yourself gave a hint of why the North Indians at large dont care for this by bringing in the Hindi issue.

Even being religionalistic does not mean that you cry a river and intervene directly just because only you feel sympathic. Yes, the issues of fishermen is there and it should be taken diplomatically and through other methods - not demanding a refendum, otherwise what is the difference between us and Pakistan?

Of being not heard at the centre can also be attributed to the secluded nature of Tamilians as a whole.

My contention is simply to use the channels we have of diplomacy and force them to come to the table, this blatant response to the people's sentiment is making them more aggravated towards us and in the course can and will lead them to forget the reasonable path.

 

[Echo_419]

TBH I am a punjabi boy sitting in Delhi I really don't know much about the Ground situation in TN but I am sure the people of TN are as patriotic to the nation as any other indian living on any part of the country
When we raise the issue of Hindus,Sikhs,Christians getting slaughtered in pakistan I think The TN Tamils have every right to do so not allowing them that would be total hypocrisy

Now the question arises how can TN Tamils help thier SL brethren

By passing resolutions against them in UNHR or by calling for a Tamil Elam or by danding territory from them & pushing the SL govt to edge making them take tough descdiins m
This is the question I would like to ask the lady in the flying cape & the man in the dark glasses

Or

By helping them build infrastructure thier by generating jobs & giving moral support to SL govt to ensure the Tamil community remains safe

You decide

 

[KS]

Even being religionalistic does not mean that you cry a river and intervene directly just because only you feel sympathic. Yes, the issues of fishermen is there and it should be taken diplomatically and through other methods not demanding a refendum, otherwise what is the difference between us and Pakistan?

You may think how it affects your image, but I frankly dont care when my people are being killed. Actually they are your people too. If you consider them as Indians.

Of being not heard at the centre can also be attributed to the secluded nature of Tamilians as a whole.

Can you define "secluded" and how it negatvely affects the overall economic or social development of the country ?

If secluded means not watching Zee TV saas-bahu serials or watching Bollywood or speaking in Hindi, then I'm ok with it. As long as it does not negatively affect the overall development of the country why would you care how we are ? frankly speaking we are better off than most other regions in the country.

Sorry if I sound a bit harsh. But the amount of apathy from fellow Indians is just plain frustrating.

 

[anonymus]

I'm afraid that you are anything but neutral.

I am neutral to the extent that i do not have an agenda not that i do not have views.

Not every attack on the fishermen is reported in the Delhi and Mumbai based media who are more pre-occupied with Aishwarya's panty color and Katrina's navel size.

But it should at least be reported in tamil media? UN? amnesty international?

People who claim 100's of dead fishermen have been able to prove only double digit claims from any neutral source.

Why shouldn't people be skeptical.

See this is the price of your "neutrality". Do you understand that a part of soverein territory of India called "Katchatheevu" was unilaterally given to Lanka by Indira without proper procedures and that Lanka is violating that agreement by not allowing Indian Tamil fishermen to fish in the areas, even though the agreement specifically calls for that ?

The kachatheevu issue as far as i know did not had provisions of fishing in it.It had a provision of drying of nets and offering prayers so there is no fault of sri lanka if it does not allowing fishing.One cannot blame lack of forsight of GoI on SL government.Even if it had provision of fishing then you should know that under international law,if an island is within the EEZ of another country,it has full right over its territorial water but limited right of EEZ unless it is not an independent country itself.

Then you dont know TN. TN students are some of the most politically apathetic and least interested in student activism. But there are certain lines.

Students have acted as catpaws of politicians in past mostly during anti-hindi movement.

And you claim to be "neutral" Are you one of those Swamy followers who believe that this is all a grand conspiracy by the Church to somehow poke at mother India ?

I knew about channel 4 even before it made that documentary.It had made great global warming swindle and other such documentaries in past.

You should watch ABC debate on that particular documentary to know about this channel.

And regarding swamy.......No idea

Lets face it. Many of the cowbelters still regard Hindi as the national language and decide the patriotism of the rest of Indians depending how they are receptive to Hindi. The fact that we are no big fans of Hindi has no gone down well with them. We are regarded as parochial, regionalistic and even anti-national for simply standing up to what we regard is an unwanted imposition on us. We want to retain our cultural autonomy. And the ill-will accruing because of that has meant that our fishermen and the Tamil there pay for that.

Hindi not being a national language is well known to most of Educated Cow belters and those who don't do not even point out TN on map.

No one here gives a damn with Tamils not knowing hindi.It is a made belief of chauvnist that we care if they don't speak hindi as they lose all traction if it a common tamil comes to know that north Indians don't give a damn as to what language they speak.

North Indians are themselves increasingly adopting English as primary medium as most of the science and SSC is written in that language.

 

[neehar]

Requoting my post -

and i still stand by my word...we must stop interfering in their affairs..how different is this referendum as that of pakistan's on kashmir??do u accept that one??and how different are these people who demand a seperate country to those of some kashmiris??why only srilanka??why not u.s or canada??tamils or telugus or kannadigas live there so should we pass a referendum asking seperate countries for them in every country??

 

[Moander]

India should first set an example for Srilanka by holding referendum on Kashmir, Seven sister and other states .

 

[KS]

Thanks for this post.

By passing resolutions against them in UNHR or by calling for a Tamil Elam or by danding territory from them & pushing the SL govt to edge making them take tough descdiins m
This is the question I would like to ask the lady in the flying cape & the man in the dark glasses

Or

By helping them build infrastructure thier by generating jobs & giving moral support to SL govt to ensure the Tamil community remains safe

You decide

I personally agree that demanding secession from a sovereign country is not the way to go about.

What I think is the way is Indian Govt being honest in what they want to do in Lanka and making the Lankans implement the things they promised they would implement before they wooed us for our support in the final phases of the war.

I'm even willing to say that fine, lets forget the crimes committed as it may be considered as a matter of prestige to the sinhalas..atleast the proposed political devolution of powers, recognition of Tamils as being culturally distinct from sinhalas and stopping the militarization and sinhalization of the Tamil areas must be stopped. That is the bare minimum that is necessary for any long lasting re-conciliation. But the Lankan Gvt is acting in a dictatorial manner by actually making the Tamil areas subservient to the sinhala majority. Bills like the Divi Neguma bill that was recently passed point in the direction. The SC justice, herself a sinhala, who opposed them as unconstitutional was unceremoniously impeached.

simply speaking, what is there now if the peace of a graveyard.

 

[neehar]

Hindi not being a national language is well known to most of Educated Cow belters and those who don't do not even point out TN on map.

No one here gives a damn with Tamils not knowing hindi.It is a made belief of chauvnist that we care if they don't speak hindi as they lose all traction if it a common tamil comes to know that north Indians don't give a damn as to what language they speak.

North Indians are themselves increasingly adopting English as primary medium as most of the science and SSC is written in that language.

thats uncalled for.

 

[Sashan]

and i still stand by my word...we must stop interfering in their affairs..how different is this referendum as that of pakistan's on kashmir??do u accept that one??and how different are these people who demand a seperate country to those of some kashmiris??why only srilanka??why not u.s or canada??tamils or telugus or kannadigas live there so should we pass a referendum asking seperate countries for them in every country??

Once you(GOI) started interfering in their affairs and caused more than enough damage, you can't decide when to stop especially when Tamilians are left to pick up all the fallouts. You shouldn't have stuck your nose where it did not belong(read it as rearing LTTE for its own reasons and not for welfare of SL tamils) and now you can't expect us Tamilians to stop it just because you changed your stance based on the damages you faced. Sorry - we do not subscribe to the cow herd mentality.

PS - Hopefully we will get rid of Karuna from the politics and this becomes a election issue in 2014 so that the 40 MPs we elect will decide on SL issue at the center due to coalition politics.

 

[ThinkLogic]

India is famous for making foreign policy blunders but this time it is going to may internal policy blunder. May God bless India!

 

[Bang Galore]

Thanks for this post.



I personally agree that demanding secession from a sovereign country is not the way to go about.

What I think is the way is Indian Govt being honest in what they want to do in Lanka and making the Lankans implement the things they promised they would implement before they wooed us for our support in the final phases of the war.

I'm even willing to say that fine, lets forget the crimes committed as it may be considered as a matter of prestige to the sinhalas..atleast the proposed political devolution of powers, recognition of Tamils as being culturally distinct from sinhalas and stopping the militarization and sinhalization of the Tamil areas must be stopped. That is the bare minimum that is necessary for any long lasting re-conciliation. But the Lankan Gvt is acting in a dictatorial manner by actually making the Tamil areas subservient to the sinhala majority. Bills like the Divi Neguma bill that was recently passed point in the direction. The SC justice, herself a sinhala, who opposed them as unconstitutional was unceremoniously impeached.

simply speaking, what is there now if the peace of a graveyard.

Nothing you suggest above is remotely disagreeable. How best that can be achieved is moot. Your above demands are unexceptionable, none of them is unattainable but the way commonly suggested by pro-intervention Tamils to achieve them is not something that most can support.

 

[KS]

and i still stand by my word...we must stop interfering in their affairs..how different is this referendum as that of pakistan's on kashmir??do u accept that one??and how different are these people who demand a seperate country to those of some kashmiris??why only srilanka??why not u.s or canada??tamils or telugus or kannadigas live there so should we pass a referendum asking seperate countries for them in every country??

Now its you who is being emotional.

My reply was to your moral stand as to how we can "interfere" in the internal affairs of another country. This issue is not their internal affairs, not from the last 30 years when the RAW ang GoI started "interfering" there or atleast from the moment their President came to New Delhi to invite them being a part in their affairs.