J-20 Supercruise speed

[S10]

WS-15 will be incorporated into the J-20. It has a thrust of 190 kN.

190kN is a little high of an estimate. A guy called huzigeng in China already stated the thrust is 170kN with afterburner, 110kN without. Thrust to weight ratio is slightly over 10.

 

[localoca]

For now, it is PAK FA the weakest one in supercruise.

as of now PAK FA its not even a true 5th gen fighter yet...Unlike the J-20 which its a Real 5th gen...

 

[tanlixiang28776]

as of now PAK FA its not even a true 5th gen fighter yet...Unlike the J-20 which its a Real 5th gen...

Let's not start a vs thread.

 

[Akasa]

190kN is a little high of an estimate. A guy called huzigeng in China already stated the thrust is 170kN with afterburner, 110kN without. Thrust to weight ratio is slightly over 10.

Sorry, my data was slightly off.

The prototype produced a thrust of 162 kN.

The goal for the production WS-15 is 180 kN.

 

[S10]

For now, it is PAK FA the weakest one in supercruise.

No, F-35 is.

Consider PAK-FA to be the true Super-Flanker. Supercruise will be a big factor in its design. This is Russia's attempt at making the aircraft as agile and fast as possible to stay alive in future battlefield. Since Americans and Europeans have dominance in terms of battlefield awareness and counter-awareness (i.e. stealth), the time to react for enemy pilot is significantly reduced. Given this, Russians sacrificed RCS to boost manuevrability and supercruise. Of course, that's not to say PAK-FA has not taken measures to reduced its radar signature. It is still significantly superior to all 4th generation figther jets.

I must say, this same design philosophy is also present in the J-20, but China seems to have done a better job at low observable shaping so far. These two are the planes you make with what little you have. Again, they are by no means something to laugh it.

 

[S10]

as of now PAK FA its not even a true 5th gen fighter yet...Unlike the J-20 which its a Real 5th gen...

It is a head and shoulder above previous generation fighter jet, so don't be so rash to cast it out of the 5th generation category. If F-35 is a 5th generation fighter, surely PAK-FA has its place. It may not be equal to F-22 but it should not be underestimated either, especially when it is likely to go through significant modification by the time of production.

 

[S10]

Sorry, my data was slightly off.

The prototype produced a thrust of 162 kN.

The goal for the production WS-15 is 180 kN.

In terms of thrust the WS-15 has already reached, if not exceeded, the F119. The problem is not so much power at this point, but reliability and signature management (infrared, radar, noise).

It seems they do not plan to have a 2D TVC nozzle like the F-22, which was optimized for lower radar and IR reduction. Instead, huzigeng stated they're going for a 3D nozzle.

 

[localoca]

It seems they do not plan to have a 2D TVC nozzle like the F-22, which was optimized for lower radar and IR reduction. Instead, huzigeng stated they're going for a 3D nozzle.

I think the J-20 should have its Nozzle fixed as in the YF-23 which its still today`s the most stealthy Fighter to have ever flown...Why do we need TVC anyways? its not like we are going to be dog fighting....

 

[Akasa]

In terms of thrust the WS-15 has already reached, if not exceeded, the F119. The problem is not so much power at this point, but reliability and signature management (infrared, radar, noise).

It seems they do not plan to have a 2D TVC nozzle like the F-22, which was optimized for lower radar and IR reduction. Instead, huzigeng stated they're going for a 3D nozzle.

The prototype is already more powerful than the F-119

 

[localoca]

The prototype is already more powerful than the F-119

let me ask again, Why do we need 3D TVC? it adds more moving parts and that on itself bump the RCS more than we need to, we should go for fixed stealthy rear end like the YF-23 which was more stealthy than the F-22 on the rear end

 

[Akasa]

let me ask again, Why do we need 3D TVC? it adds more moving parts and that on itself bump the RCS more than we need to, we should go for fixed stealthy rear end like the YF-23 which was more stealthy than the F-22 on the rear end

Please know that the J-20 happens to be heavier and larger than the F-22.

The weight and size will impede its maneuverability.

The canards and the 3D TVC are the answer.

 

[AerospaceEngineer]

The supercruise of J-20 will be less than that of other 5-Gen Fighter because of its size and weight

Why? What is wrong with its size and weight? J-20 is 21 m which is the same as SU-27. Which is only slightly heavier than T-50.

With WS-15 which has over 19 tons of thrush. J-20 can reach supercrusie March 1.7!!!

You are an indian, and I see your sour grap mentality no:

 

[AerospaceEngineer]

Based on what? Nothing has been disclosed.

Well, the indian guy said J-20 will have low Super cuise speed. Since you are a Russian patriot, could you prove me that why T-50 will have high super cruise speed?

I am not here to make you mad, but I want to see you defend T-50 on this one.

Also, prove me that J-20 will have high super cruise speed. I want to see you defend Chinese once at least do some thing different. Be less predictable and more interesting.

 

[localoca]

Please know that the J-20 happens to be heavier and larger than the F-22.

so was the YF-23... we dont need a flanker like fighter, why to get in to fights when you can kill your agile enemies before they even know you are there?

 

[S10]

I think the J-20 should have its Nozzle fixed as in the YF-23 which its still today`s the most stealthy Fighter to have ever flown...Why do we need TVC anyways? its not like we are going to be dog fighting....

They said the same thing about dogfighting when medium-ranged air to air missile was introduced in the 1970's. They have been proven wrong ever since. There is a significant chance that encounters between 5th generation fighters will boil down to close range combat, in which the more agile aircraft will win the day.

YF-23 lost because it was not as balanced as the YF-22, plain and simple.

so was the YF-23... we dont need a flanker like fighter, why to get in to fights when you can kill your agile enemies before they even know you are there?

Wishful thinking. If that was the case, then we simply need a B-2 sized VLO bomber carrying a large paylod of long range A2A missiles.