Islamic Union

[third eye]

Indian guys please stop trolling..Only Muslim country with majority Muslim population could join it.Others could migrate to these countries.The Islamic Union would b like Israel..it will accept refugees from all over the world as long as they are Muslims.It will be built for well being of Muslims.The union would not be based on cruel ideology of talibans and AQ but it will be built for interest of Muslims.Muslims like Osama would be executed as they are criminals.

Hmm..

An Islamic union may be desirable but not workable. Contrary to whay some of us here would like to believe, religion has little place when national interests are involved. Nowhere is it more obvious than the muslim world.

Egypt cuts a deal with Israel while ' brother arabs' sweat it out, Iran usurps Kuwait, Iran - Iraq forever at loggerheads, KSA on a diff plane than the rest, Libya pays damages over lockerbie .. and so many more.

Go back in history there would be so many more examples where in the Ummah did not stand together and local issues took precedence over religion.

Govts do not think from their hearts (like young humans sometimes do) but from their heads.

 

[vsdoc]

Mental masturbation (Disclaimer: Hope this is legit usage and does not infringe on the "Obscenity rule" Bezerk bhai ..... in case it is please blank out the offending word and not the entire post. Regards, Doc) as it might be, it is but natural for weak Islamic nations in turmoil to speak about alliances/unions and try and ride piggy-back on strong-er and more well-off Islamic nations (whether these nations share their enthu is a totally different thing of course!).

Kehte honge, apna watan sambhala nahin jata goron ke hathyar aur daan ke bina, aur nikale hain Islam ke rakhwale banne.

Would be really interesting to know what other Islamic countries (besides the sub-continental ones) think about this unionising thing.

That is the sad truth here.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Sinnerman108]

Mental masturbation (Disclaimer: Hope this is legit usage and does not infringe on the "Obscenity rule" Bezerk bhai ..... in case it is please blank out the offending word and not the entire post. Regards, Doc) as it might be, it is but natural for weak Islamic nations in turmoil to speak about alliances/unions and try and ride piggy-back on strong-er and more well-off Islamic nations (whether these nations share their enthu is a totally different thing of course!).

Kehte honge, apna watan sambhala nahin jata goron ke hathyar aur daan ke bina, aur nikale hain Islam ke rakhwale banne.

Would be really interesting to know what other Islamic countries (besides the sub-continental ones) think about this unionising thing.

That is the sad truth here.

Cheers, Doc

That is almost true,
A union of Islamic nation, and thoughts of the status lost with Khilafat
have been the wet dream of many scholars.

And it is bound to stay a wet dream as such, till there is a huge revolution in the arab states. Unless their leadership is over thrown
such misery will continue.

As far as muslims of the sub-continent are concerned there is political will , and capability however there is ZERO support from the rich arabs.

Unless that changes.. there will be no revolution no union.

Will this happen in future, YES !
I see this happening in very near future.. its a part of the belief system, the coming of Mehdi, the last days .....

and guess which muslims are predicted to lead that battle ?

Subcontinent !

 

[Developereo]

guys, let's discuss more practical issues rather than ideological issues.
For instance, how would an average muslim proceed in realizing the creation of a union. Am I wrong if I don't want to wait for lazy corrupt politicians to move their butt?
What about issues like, infrastructure, currency etc. what would you suggest?

Infrastructure, currency, etc. are things that are best handled by governments.

Average person can promote awareness of the concept using social networks, facebook, mosque, school, etc. The most important thing is to get religious and media people actively promoting the concept. The idea is to get people used to the idea of, and consciously thinking about, a shared Muslim identity.

But we need to start small.
- focus within the country to promote moderate, tolerant forms of Islam.
- promote cultural exchange with other Muslim countries.
- focus on immediate-neighbor Muslim countries.

An Islamic union may be desirable but not workable. Contrary to whay some of us here would like to believe, religion has little place when national interests are involved. Nowhere is it more obvious than the muslim world.

Yes, you are quite correct historically, and there are many pragmatic considerations. That is why this union would have to grow organically based on national and regional considerations. Islam would only provide an additional glue; it would by no means be the sole basis for cooperation.

The hardest part is starting it. Once it becomes a going concern and demonstrates its viability, it would attract members. Success is the best advocate for any concept. Muslim countries flock to Israel precisely because it has been successful.

A Pakistan-Iran confederation makes sense regardless of religion; just by virtue of geography and shared regional concerns. Turkey would be nice to have, although the Iran/West conflict would be a major hurdle to overcome. It would depend to some extent on both countries' evolving relationship with the West.

Similarly there is popular sentiment for a pan-Arab confederation, and it may yet become a reality -- but only after the oil runs out and the Arab sheiks get a rude wakeup call about their Western "friends".
http://www.defence.pk/forums/econom...re-concept-common-currency-amongst-arabs.html


P.S. Let's try to stay on topic and ignore the usual trolls jumping up and down for attention.

 

[greatsequence]

Infrastructure, currency, etc. are things that are best handled by governments.

Average person can promote awareness of the concept using social networks, facebook, mosque, school, etc. The most important thing is to get religious and media people actively promoting the concept. The idea is to get people used to the idea of, and consciously thinking about, a shared Muslim identity.

But we need to start small.
- focus within the country to promote moderate, tolerant forms of Islam.
- promote cultural exchange with other Muslim countries.
- focus on immediate-neighbor Muslim countries.



Yes, you are quite correct historically, and there are many pragmatic considerations. That is why this union would have to grow organically based on national and regional considerations. Islam would only provide an additional glue; it would by no means be the sole basis for cooperation.

The hardest part is starting it. Once it becomes a going concern and demonstrates its viability, it would attract members. Success is the best advocate for any concept. Muslim countries flock to Israel precisely because it has been successful.

A Pakistan-Iran confederation makes sense regardless of religion; just by virtue of geography and shared regional concerns. Turkey would be nice to have, although the Iran/West conflict would be a major hurdle to overcome. It would depend to some extent on both countries' evolving relationship with the West.

Similarly there is popular sentiment for a pan-Arab confederation, and it may yet become a reality -- but only after the oil runs out and the Arab sheiks get a rude wakeup call about their Western "friends".
http://www.defence.pk/forums/econom...re-concept-common-currency-amongst-arabs.html


P.S. Let's try to stay on topic and ignore the usual trolls jumping up and down for attention.

I agree it is almost impossibe to have a complete union on a single go. A more reasonable approach will be the Gulf countries uniting may be pakistan afghanistan bangladesh. Egypt sudan jordan syria, morocco algeria tunisia, Turkey with central asian countries. Some thing like this may work.
I heard this idea from one of my Egyptian friend although he was talking just about the Arabs .

 

[Developereo]

I agree it is almost impossibe to have a complete union on a single go. A more reasonable approach will be the Gulf countries uniting may be pakistan afghanistan bangladesh. Egypt sudan jordan syria, morocco algeria tunisia, Turkey with central asian countries. Some thing like this may work.
I heard this idea from one of my Egyptian friend although he was talking just about the Arabs .

Also, the far eastern countries like Malaysia, Indonesia, maybe Brunei.

If Pakistan and Iran unite, then Afghanistan is sure to follow. Bangladesh might take a while because we mistreated them so badly in the past.

 

[vsdoc]

The US and the rest of the Western world are never going to simply sit back and allow such a Union to ever come to pass.

And they will do so without a single bullet being shot, a single missile launched.

And before you guys puff your collective chests out with bellicosity and say "Who cares", please list down the so called member countries of this proposed Union.

Then list down their Trade partners ..... and the currency of foreign trade.

Then list down foreign influences within their country's borders.

Then list down how many of these countries are self sufficient in terms of food (agricultural imports).

Then list down how many of these countries import most or all of their oil ..... and who controls that.

Then list out how much money each of these countries owes the IMF/World Bank/US/other Western players.

Then list out how many of these countries get arms from other countries ..... and who these countries are.

Then list down EACH country's traditional/current foes and allies ..... and see whether there is any commonality or are the lists to a large extent mutually exclusive with no common friend or foe.

Then list out non-muslim non-union potentially hostile neighbours (esp. based on such a Union) sitting on the international borders of each of the potential Union members.

Then lets talk.

"focus on immediate-neighbour muslim countries" ..... PRECIOUS!

Is that what Pakistan is and has been doing in Afghanistan ..... talk about focus!
All under the benevolent watchful eye of non-muslim big daddy Uncle Sam of course who is chomping at the bit to get this Union started.

And then lets see Amercian Iraq focus on Iran ..... should be really interesting. Israel could be invited as the referee.

Let me know when you guys wake up.

I'll hand out the Kleenex.

Cheers, Doc

 

[moha199]

Let me ask you a question....

If some sort of discrimination happens to a Muslim community based in Europe will the Islamic union interfere in between when it itself has rejected the person on the grounds of different nationality or not belonging to the Islamic Union or his native place.

Secondly Will the countries be ready to open the gates of their nations to flood people from across the nations and put pressure on their already existing population where we in India itself have about 15 million Muslims.

Wait wait wait how come India comes in it, If India only has 15 million muslims lmao........... Just a tease bro i guess you meant to say 150 million!!!!! Well even though if India has 300 million still it won't be, in Muslim Union unless India is ruled by Muslim minority, Which i don't see in near future. So Let's put this case to the side. Only Muslim countries with Muslim Governments will be able to enter into Muslim Union...... I guess this is the Idea of Muslim Union or Kalafat, Which will ultimatly come since we have Predictions of it, Including the current crises

 

[R.A.W.]

Wait wait wait how come India comes in it, If India only has 15 million muslims lmao........... Just a tease bro i guess you meant to say 150 million!!!!! Well even though if India has 300 million still it won't be, in Muslim Union unless India is ruled by Muslim minority, Which i don't see in near future. So Let's put this case to the side. Only Muslim countries with Muslim Governments will be able to enter into Muslim Union...... I guess this is the Idea of Muslim Union or Kalafat, Which will ultimatly come since we have Predictions of it, Including the current crises

How about India having a Muslim president. It is ruled by Muslim then. At any point of time we can have a Muslim president. Indians dont have issues with having a Muslim president or a prime minister.

And keeping aside India are you not ignoring the 3rd largest population of Muslims.

 

[Developereo]

Cheers, Doc

Thanks for the bump.

And keeping aside India are you not ignoring the 3rd largest population of Muslims.

You guys keep laying the trap hoping someone will fall into it.
No, India is not a Muslim majority country and, therefore, is not in the game.

India, or any country with a minority Muslim population, would not be affected by this union.

 

[Join]

This thread was put to know if Islamic union could work or not, after 2-3 pages, these guys have formed a union and Excluded India and Other Muslim minorities.

 

[vsdoc]

You forget R.A.W., they ceased to be "real" Muslims and where thus left to their fate the day they refused to cross across in 1947. They only are grudgingly called "muslims" and even more grudgingly "brothers" when it suits the other side to either bash India and Indians or to rake up communal unrest with issues like Babri masjid, Kashmir, Godhra, Mumbai, etc.

And this is completely ON TOPIC cause the very concept of an Islamic Union is reduced to a apartheid farce if you pick and choose which muslims benefit and are included and who are not and are kept out ...... politely on POLITICAL grounds (ruling majority/minority blah blah blah) in what by its very origins is a RELIGIOUS concept.

Call it hypocrisy, call it intra-religion apartheid (the gorilla in the room .... The MUSLIM CASTE SYSTEM), call it what you will ..... the fact remains, no matter how you clothe it.

Cheers, Doc

 

[R.A.W.]

India, or any country with a minority Muslim population, would not be affected by this union.

So if you are ignoring one of the majority of Islamic community then what is Islamic left about it. It is just a another collaboration of nations based on national interest not Islamic interests. So there is nothing Islamic when you yourself are ignoring Muslims.

 

[Omar1984]

So if you are ignoring one of the majority of Islamic community then what is Islamic left about it. It is just a another collaboration of nations based on national interest not Islamic interests. So there is nothing Islamic when you yourself are ignoring Muslims.

Mr R.A.W, if we allow India into the Islamic Union then there'll be more Hindus in the Islamic Union than Muslims because as you know there's more than 900 million Hindus in India, so it wont be an Islamic Union if there are as much if not more Hindus in the Union than there are Muslims in the Union.

Why doesnt India go and make a Hindu Union with Nepal

 

[vsdoc]

Why doesnt India go and make a Hindu Union with Nepal

Because India has never believed in -self edit- religious exclusivism.

Our country comes first for us above all else.

"Indian" is all the identity we need in our lives, and we don't go around hankering for other identitites.

Which is why we are India and you are Pakistan Omar bhai.

Thank you.

Cheers, Doc