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Is Multiculturalism bad yes or no thoughts

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But to he honest, all Multicultural states fell apart just from a little bit of external pressure because of their internal weakness.
To be quite honest, this question cannot be given a straightforward answer because it depends on what is ones definition of "bad" and "multicultural". Also there is alot of nuance involved and therefore the answer would need to take this into account. So I will expand upon what I said earlier.

There are three different types of "multiculturalism", represented by various historical as well as modern examples, (and this is just from my personal observation). Three examples which stood out to me are Russia, America and Pakistan (Switzerland can also be used as a similar example to Pakistan's case).

The Imperial "multicultural" example: Historically all classical civilizations come under this category (Rome, Greece, Persia, Arabs/various Islamic Empires, etc.). This one entails a hierarchical order in which the central core of this state is made up of the ethnic driving force/original founders of the state, while all of those who were conquered were incorporated into this state but were kept in a subordinate position as quasi subjects even if given autonomy within their own internal affairs. Modern Russia (implicitly, since Imperial times) is an example of this where the Russo-Slavic people dominate both the military and government of Russia and form its core whilst the other groups are under their influence and accept this hierarchical order because each group understands its position within this hierarchy. There is no confusion of ones place, there is clarity, even if a particular people might detest its subordinate position, it will still accept it as long as the central core of this imperial hierarchy remains strong and their group can continue to reap the benefits of being its subordinates.

The Liberal Democratic "multicultural" example: like all states there is a founding ethnic/racial stock that conquers and establishes the roots of the Liberal Democratic society. However, overtime in the name of a vague concept of "equality" the original founding stock is undermined to artificially elevate the conquered and subordinate groups. Because "equality" is the goal there is no clear cut role for any of the groups consisting this society, and thus you have confusion and resentment, low social trust, etc. where the different groups are competing against one another and where even if one group excels at climbing the social ladder due to it's own merit it is perceived as "cheating" by less successful groups and accused of things like "racism" and other social shaming tactics to bring it down. America and Britain come to mind here. One can also include other Western Democratic countries within thos category.

Now we come to examples of countries like Pakistan (and Switzerland). Is Pakistan a "multicultural" (in the sense that word is commonly used by mostly Westerners) country? Yes and No.

Yes because there is a variety of ethnic groups that have their own culture and history as well as there are minority religious groups.

No because due to centuries of close proximity coexistence as well as shared historical roots (Indo-Aryan heritage) & experiences Pakistanis of different ethnic and cultural backgrounds have (for the most part) been molded into a single unified nation, thanks mostly to Islam. A Pakistani Punjabi Muslim does not want to form an independent Punjab with India's Punjabis who are Sikh. Similarly most Pakistani pashtuns do not want to merge with Afghans, even if the latter are Muslims. One can argue the reasons as to why they don't want to merge with Afghans, and sure social stability is one factor, but so is historical factor of shared experiences. This is why Bangladesh's inclusion with Pakistan was a mistake because they did not share our roots or our historical experiences and were a completely different nation of people in terms of ethnicity and culture.

I think the Swiss are a good example too where French, Germans and Italians, three ethnic groups who's namesake countries had been at war with each other numerous times in history, yet here they are coexisting peacefully. Because a French has more in common with a German and Italian than he does with a Gambian or a Uzbek, and over time the very few differences that did exist between a Swiss French and Swiss German and Swiss Italian were smoothed over.

@Nilgiri @Psychic @Metanoia @LeGenD @OsmanAli98

And what exactly is multicultural.
True, see my post above.

And what exactly is multicultural. I mean by one measure UK, Switzerland are prime examples of very succesful multicultural states. Scots, Welsh, Ulters union [UK]. The German, Italian, French federation [Swiss].

As for UK being a "successful" state, one would have to see by what parameters that is being judged on.

For example, to know if something is good one would have to see if it has made any improvement over what it replaced (monocultural society). Multiculturalism is a social phenomenon, therefore have social factors improved under multiculturalism over its monocultural predecessor society? Social indicators like general social trust (without which no society can exist) should be looked into and are good indicators of whether it was a success and thus a good thing or a failure and thus a bad thing.
 
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I'm a big fan of multiculturalism. The whole world should grasp multiculturalism.
 
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Correction... there are over 20+ ethnic groups in Iran.
I know, but I gave example of the ethnic conflict there.

Also, in Iran, like in any multicultural state, there exists a strong central force binding all of these groups together. As long as this force exists and multicultural society will not crumble. As soon as it weakens it will fall apart because the different groups are divergent in their group interests

See example of India-Pakistan partition as soon as British authority waned

Yugoslavia

Soviet Union

Ottoman Empire

Austro-Hungarian Empire

West Pakistan-East Pakistan division 1971

Sudan (North & South)

Iraq (Arabs, Kurds, Yazidis)

Syria (Arabs, Kurds, Turkmen)

Etc.

In all of the examples the central binding force was weakened.

Different groups are naturally divergent and pursue different interests which are, more often than not, conflicting. This is basic knowledge.

I'm a big fan of multiculturalism
So then you oppose India-Pakistan partition and support Hindu-Muslim unity, which includes interrmarriage, etc?

Then you are opposed to Pakistan's creation?
 
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Let's rephrase it. Multi Religion? Anyone?

Multi Religion = also Multi Culture.

Those who disagree..... Let's say everyone has same length and thick dick.
 
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Multiculturalism is just an alternative when uni-culturalism is creating troubles. Otherwise, all things being equal, one is always better than two or more.
 
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I know, but I gave example of the ethnic conflict there.

Also, in Iran, like in any multicultural state, there exists a strong central force binding all of these groups together. As long as this force exists and multicultural society will not crumble. As soon as it weakens it will fall apart because the different groups are divergent in their group interests

See example of India-Pakistan partition as soon as British authority waned

Yugoslavia

Soviet Union

Ottoman Empire

Austro-Hungarian Empire

West Pakistan-East Pakistan division 1971

Sudan (North & South)

Iraq (Arabs, Kurds, Yazidis)

Syria (Arabs, Kurds, Turkmen)

Etc.

In all of the examples the central binding force was weakened.

Different groups are naturally divergent and pursue different interests which are, more often than not, conflicting. This is basic knowledge.


So then you oppose India-Pakistan partition and support Hindu-Muslim unity, which includes interrmarriage, etc?

Then you are opposed to Pakistan's creation?

Lol. How childish. Pakistan is one culture? Ignorance of the culture of others doesn't mean multiculturalism does not exist.

I dont understand most of the native tongues spoken in Pakistan. Many of the people of Pakistan will not completely understand my native tongue.

Culture can vary from valley to valley. Multiculturalism is the variety of culture. Look at Mark Weins video, the food of the Hunza Valley was extremely different to the food in peshawar or Lahore or Islamabad.

We even have it in our religion. We have eid ul fitr on two different days in Pakistan. If you follow shafi fiqh, you will pray asar, earlier than a hanafi. This forms a part of culture.

Hindu-Muslim marriage is haram. Are your standards different to those Allah set for us?
 
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So then you are opposed to multiculturalism? o_O Because religion is a part of culture.

"Religion is part of the culture or way of life of a society, and it helps to maintain cultural traditions. Society can only survive if people share some common beliefs about right and wrong behaviour."

Source: ‘Religion, Spirituality and Psychiatry’ by Dr. Mohamed Omar Salem

Is every option in your life limited to a binary choice? Are you aware you have the ability to and the right to be selective about what parts of something you approve of?

I am and I do.
 
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Is every option in your life limited to a binary choice? Are you aware you have the ability to and the right to be selective about what parts of something you approve of?

I am and I do.
Then you are against multiculturalism if you are only limiting it do a specific group of people (Muslims) at the exclusion of others (Hindus).
 
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Then you are against multiculturalism if you are only limiting it do a specific group of people (Muslims) at the exclusion of others (Hindus).
If you can only think along binary lines, then you are correct.
 
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As long as people follow common sense secular laws (like the stuff UN recommends) multiculturalism is fine.
 
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