Indus Valley Civ people diet dominated by beef and other meat, finds study

[Rollno21]

Concept which was followed from the days of Adam, IVC came into being in between the timelines of Prophet Noah and Prophet Abraham AS i.e. 3000 BC. Don't know when hindus started burning their deads ? will be interesting info if anyone can have some details on it.

Customs differ from place to place. If Islam and Christianity had originated in subcontinent then the Customs would have been different.
In Islam and Christianity they bury the dead because it's the easiest way as in desert it would be hard to find wood and to waste it burning the dead. In subcontinent land is fertile and there is no shortage of wood. It would be wasting fertile land to bury the dead instead it would be easy to burn the dead. Other than that there is not other scientific or religious explanation.

 

[Path-Finder]

Indus Valley civilization diet had dominance of meat, finds study

A new study has found that the diet of people from the Indus Valley civilisation was dominated by meat.

www.indiatoday.in

Even Niraj Rai and Vasant Shinde, government sponsored Hindutva so-called 'researchers', agree!

So what do we have here.. IVC people buried their dead in graves and ate beef.. sounds very Hindu!

fake newj

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

I am not mallu. Why do you think that?

At least check your sources. From the article that wiki has as its source for this statement.

Man, they got it from Asia.
How the world loved the swastika - until Hitler stole it - BBC News

You didn't identify yourself, and you are not the originator of Swastika symbol or meaning, but the word is Sanskrit. The oldest found Swastika is on a bird carving in Ukraine from 12,000 years ago.

HistoryExtra.com

"The svastika, a cross with each leg bent at a 90-degree angle, is an important symbol in both ancient and modern religions. It indicates, among other things, good luck, the infinity of creation and the unconquered, revolving sun. So how did it become the symbol of the Nazi party? ... The story begins following the archaeological investigation of Hisarlik in Turkey by German antiquarian Heinrich Schliemann who believed it to be the site of Troy. Finding the svastika on a variety of artefacts, Schliemann recognised a similarity with designs found on sixth-century Germanic pottery, theorising that it represented an important and universal prehistoric religious symbol."

BBC.com: How the world loved the swastika - until Hitler stole it

"In the Western world the swastika is synonymous with fascism, but it goes back thousands of years and has been used as a symbol of good fortune in almost every culture in the world. As more evidence emerges of its long pre-Nazi history in Europe, can this ancient sign ever shake off its evil associations?"

Encyclopaedia.ushmm.org: THE HISTORY OF THE SWASTIKA

"The swastika is an ancient symbol that was in use in many different cultures for at least 5,000 years before Adolf Hitler made it the centerpiece of the Nazi flag ... The swastika was long used as a symbol of well-being in ancient societies, including those in India, China, Africa, native America, and Europe ... The word swastika comes from the Sanskrit svastika, which means “good fortune” or “well-being." The motif (a hooked cross) appears to have first been used in Eurasia, as early as 7000 years ago"

 

[Maira La]

The oldest found Swastika is on a bird carving in Ukraine from 12,000 years ago.

It's just an ancient symbol that was commonly seen in Indo-European societies. They (early IE pastoralists) most likely adopted it from hunter gatherer culture who preceded them in South Western Russia.

For example, below is from Greek architecture - they did not adopt it from Indians.

Indians are stupid and have very little exposure to anything Brahmins don't want them to learn.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

It's just an ancient symbol that was commonly seen in Indo-European societies. They (early IE pastoralists) most likely adopted it from hunter gatherer culture who preceded them in South Western Russia.

For example, below is from Greek architecture - they did not adopt it from Indians.
View attachment 785817

Indians are stupid and have very little exposure to anything Brahmins don't want them to learn.

Its the Hindus and the Bharati Scythians with the most insecurities because their cultural identity formed later in history. The origins of the Deva, the Arya, and of the Swastika symbol are outside India, preceding the establishment of India on the basis of the Hindustani Vedic caste system. I have no problem with it.

 

[Khan1988]

The people living during the Indus Valley Civilization (IVC) were not Indo-Europeans (Aryans) instead probably Dravidians or other local tribes. The Hinduism is amalgamation of beliefs of Indo-Europeans (Aryans), Dravidians and local tribal groups. Sanskrit is not original Aryan language since it has Dravidian substratum lacking in other Indo-European languages. Sanskrit was formed when Aryans have already settled in South Asia for few centuries and their language got mixed up with phonology, retroflexes, morphologically, gerunds, etc. of local languages. IVC people ate beef and buried their dead so they are closer to their Pakistani descendents. Pakistan actually has nearly the same borders as IVC.

 

[Chhatrapati]

IVC people ate beef and buried their dead so they are closer to their Pakistani descendents.

Do you guys eat pork? IVC people also consumed pigs.

 

[Aryzin]

Deva literally means Noble or Benevolent. Same as Sharif. Sanskrit was Aryan language. Sher/Shar is Lion in Sumerian so their meaning is related to the symbol of Lion. Their functional roles are similar, leader or ruler [close to God].

Sumerian word for lion was Uruma ! Shir is lion in Persian. Hence Panjshir valley is the valley of the five lions. And it’s great the Hindu quit eating beef, at 1.5 billion the Indians wouldn’t leave any for the rest of us. And Arya literally means noble in ancient Persian.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

Sumerian word for lion was Uruma ! Shir is lion in Persian. Hence Panjshir valley is the valley of the five lions. And it’s great the Hindu quit eating beef, at 1.5 billion the Indians wouldn’t leave any for the rest of us. And Arya literally means noble in ancient Persian.

Arya does not have the meaning of Noble in Europe. Sher is still originally Sumerian word. It literally means to shine brightly. I wrote it down in my research and equated it to the meaning of Lion as well. Maybe it's not. But the first meaning to shine is closer to the meaning of Noble. The first ruler of Sumeria was Meshkiaggasher. Sher became identified with the meaning of Lion in Farsi and Urdu.

 

[Aryzin]

Arya does not have the meaning of Noble in Europe. Sher is still originally Sumerian word. It literally means to shine brightly. I wrote it down in my research and equated it to the meaning of Lion as well. Maybe it's not. But the first meaning to shine is closer to the meaning of Noble. The first ruler of Sumeria was Meshkiaggasher. Sher became identified with the meaning of Lion in Farsi and Urdu.

Arya literally is “who doesn’t hide his hands”! Only thief or not honorable man hides their hands. Aryan is a man of honor, a noble. Sumerian root word for lion is Ur. Persian is shir. Not sure what old Sanskrit or Avestan word for lion would have been but it probably was same or almost the same. Regards.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

Arya literally is “who doesn’t hide his hands”! Only thief or not honorable man hides their hands. Aryan is a man of honor, a noble. Sumerian root word for lion is Ur. Persian is shir. Not sure what old Sanskrit or Avestan word for lion would have been but it probably was same or almost the same. Regards.

Aryan doesn't mean Noble in Europe, you have an acquired or acculturated meaning of Noble attached to Aryan. Arya "One who doesn't hide his hands" versus Sharif which literally means Noble. Deva in Sanskrit means Noble. Aryans appropriated the meaning.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

Sumerian root word for lion is Ur. Persian is shir.

Not doubting Sumerian root word for lion is Ur. There is also the city or state of Ur. Affix 'Du' in Sumerian which means 'going away (from)' [Reference: Cambridge Encyclopedia of the World's Ancient Languages, Edited by Roger D. Woodard]. So, Urdu literally means 'going away (from) Ur'.

Sumerian word Sher means to shine brightly [in character]. We know Sheriff in English and Sharif in Arabic and other languages associate the meaning with Noble. We have Quran Sharif, Kaaba Sharif, Ibrahim Sharif, Darood Sharif, the Prophetic lineage is Sharif. Prophet Ibrahim was born in Ur.

 

[jamahir]

Śramaṇa - Wikipedia

The Great Atheist Revolt | Nirmukta

The concern for vegetarianism was born out of defying the age-old Brahminical order of conducting large scale animal sacrifices (Yagna) to please the Gods (by feeding/pleasing Brahmins). Post Brahminical consolidation was a vibrant period of Indo-Gangetic plains. Non-Brahminical castes were certainly unhappy with the practices of Brahmins and thus began the churning of various Heterodox sects all over Indo-gangetic plains - from Upanishadas (Pantheistic Monists) to Bhagvatas (Henotheists/Cultists) to Carvakas (Existential materialists) to Jainism (yup, that modern sect/religion) and many more. And they began to get support in second most powerful caste group - Kshatriyas. Ashoka's conversion was the final nail in the coffin for Brahmins and they desperately sought any method that may ensure their return in power. The Hinduism we see today is the result of that struggle, Brahmins rather than outright destroying every other Heterodox sect responded by assimilating/infiltrating them. Vegetarianism was part of that re-assimilation and Brahmins being the protectors of the Dharma they claimed to be became the most rigid vegetarians.


Intial Aryan migration was into the modern Punjab region which coincided with the decline of IVC then they went onto migrate east clearing out the jungles/assimilating older settlements but the newly arrived Aryans were not able to establish a working state due to internal tribal feuds and probably due to nomadic lifestyle. The Aryans sedentarized gradually, still divided between various small tribes and factions. This culminated into a grand battle called Battle of the Ten Kings mentioned in the Rigveda, oldest written text of the subcontinent. The end of result of the battle was the domination of other tribes by one tribe - that tribe was Bharatas, they established the first Aryan state in modern day Haryana-western UP. They codified the Rigveda itself, the oldest Hindu text, they codified the various Shrauta rituals thus they codified Vedic religion itself including the caste system. They were basically the cultural (and ethnic?) progenitors of subsequent Indian civilizations. They were also the basis of later Mahabharata legend in which the last surviving Pandava - Parikshit, is the first attested Kuru King. And they obviously lend their name to the modern republic of India.

I will accept much of your post but have these points to make :

1. The Aryans migrated into South Asia not before 1000 BC.

2. There was a question in last week's Kaun Banega Crorepati. It was about a village ( or maybe it was region ) in Himachal which was said to have one of the world's oldest democracies and the question was which king's descendants do these people claim to be. The answer, which I had guessed correctly, was Alexander the Great. And what was this democracy ? It was most certainly brought by the Greeks. The idea called Demokratia - direct democracy though flawed in its version but a milestone nonetheless. So Hindus had lot of influences from non-Hindu cultures and this I would say would be in astronomy ( and astrology ), artistic expression, mathematics, probably medicine and probably clothing too ( like the sari ).

3. About the Mahabharata, some days ago the Pakistani member @firohot4321 said that this epic was a derivation of the Greek epic Iliad.

Well tough luck, we are not talking about Modern Europeans. Arya first appeared in Sanskrit and is best described as vedic people. And neither are we talking about Zoroastrianism. And if you take Zoroastrians as a point then Deva must be Evil folks and not Noble fellows.

There reversed roles of devas and asuras notwithstanding it is certain that original Hinduism originated in Iranic lands and then the Hindus probably had some cultural tussle with other Iranics and then migrated into South Asia around 1000 BC and who knows what they did to the IVC ( if it was still existent then ). The Hindus probably then adapted their religion to local environment.

@Aryzin, what is the understanding in Iran about the Aryan Hindus who migrated to South Asia ? Also I must mention that our Parsi member @padamchen calls Hindus as his cousins and many years ago had posted about cultural similiarities between Zoroastrianism and Hinduism like the Torana decorative and luck-bringing string-and-leaf arrangement hung over the main door.

Encyclopaedia.ushmm.org: THE HISTORY OF THE SWASTIKA

"The swastika is an ancient symbol that was in use in many different cultures for at least 5,000 years before Adolf Hitler made it the centerpiece of the Nazi flag ... The swastika was long used as a symbol of well-being in ancient societies, including those in India, China, Africa, native America, and Europe ... The word swastika comes from the Sanskrit svastika, which means “good fortune” or “well-being." The motif (a hooked cross) appears to have first been used in Eurasia, as early as 7000 years ago"

I don't think modern Sanskrit is the origin of that word. Must be some Iranic language from which Sanskrit borrows.

For example, below is from Greek architecture - they did not adopt it from Indians.
View attachment 785817

Good info.

 

[Naofumi]

You didn't identify yourself, and you are not the originator of Swastika symbol or meaning, but the word is Sanskrit. The oldest found Swastika is on a bird carving in Ukraine from 12,000 years ago.

HistoryExtra.com

"The svastika, a cross with each leg bent at a 90-degree angle, is an important symbol in both ancient and modern religions. It indicates, among other things, good luck, the infinity of creation and the unconquered, revolving sun. So how did it become the symbol of the Nazi party? ... The story begins following the archaeological investigation of Hisarlik in Turkey by German antiquarian Heinrich Schliemann who believed it to be the site of Troy. Finding the svastika on a variety of artefacts, Schliemann recognised a similarity with designs found on sixth-century Germanic pottery, theorising that it represented an important and universal prehistoric religious symbol."

BBC.com: How the world loved the swastika - until Hitler stole it

"In the Western world the swastika is synonymous with fascism, but it goes back thousands of years and has been used as a symbol of good fortune in almost every culture in the world. As more evidence emerges of its long pre-Nazi history in Europe, can this ancient sign ever shake off its evil associations?"

Encyclopaedia.ushmm.org: THE HISTORY OF THE SWASTIKA

"The swastika is an ancient symbol that was in use in many different cultures for at least 5,000 years before Adolf Hitler made it the centerpiece of the Nazi flag ... The swastika was long used as a symbol of well-being in ancient societies, including those in India, China, Africa, native America, and Europe ... The word swastika comes from the Sanskrit svastika, which means “good fortune” or “well-being." The motif (a hooked cross) appears to have first been used in Eurasia, as early as 7000 years ago"

It's just an ancient symbol that was commonly seen in Indo-European societies. They (early IE pastoralists) most likely adopted it from hunter gatherer culture who preceded them in South Western Russia.

For example, below is from Greek architecture - they did not adopt it from Indians.

Similar symbols (NOT same) can be found among many other non IE cultures, that doesn't prove any "Global Aryan community" or even the attestation word Aryan for which @Novus ordu seclorum cited Swastika.

Ethiopia

Ashanti (modern Ghana region in Africa). Surely, we won't call Ethiopians and Ghanians as Aryans now.
Secondly, This still proves little that modern Swastika was a cultural continuity of the above symbol.

• It differs a lot from the modern symbol.
• It doesn't ascribe "Swastika" name to it which is decidedly of Sanskrit origin.
• The level of social/cultural significance is undecided. It may have been one of the plethora of other symbols.

 

[Aryzin]

I will accept much of your post but have these points to make :

1. The Aryans migrated into South Asia not before 1000 BC.

2. There was a question in last week's Kaun Banega Crorepati. It was about a village ( or maybe it was region ) in Himachal which was said to have one of the world's oldest democracies and the question was which king's descendants do these people claim to be. The answer, which I had guessed correctly, was Alexander the Great. And what was this democracy ? It was most certainly brought by the Greeks. The idea called Demokratia - direct democracy though flawed in its version but a milestone nonetheless. So Hindus had lot of influences from non-Hindu cultures and this I would say would be in astronomy ( and astrology ), artistic expression, mathematics, probably medicine and probably clothing too ( like the sari ).

3. About the Mahabharata, some days ago the Pakistani member @firohot4321 said that this epic was a derivation of the Greek epic Iliad.



There reversed roles of devas and asuras notwithstanding it is certain that original Hinduism originated in Iranic lands and then the Hindus probably had some cultural tussle with other Iranics and then migrated into South Asia around 1000 BC and who knows what they did to the IVC ( if it was still existent then ). The Hindus probably then adapted their religion to local environment.

@Aryzin, what is the understanding in Iran about the Aryan Hindus who migrated to South Asia ? Also I must mention that our Parsi member @padamchen calls Hindus as his cousins and many years ago had posted about cultural similiarities between Zoroastrianism and Hinduism like the Torana decorative and luck-bringing string-and-leaf arrangement hung over the main door.



I don't think modern Sanskrit is the origin of that word. Must be some Iranic language from which Sanskrit borrows.



Good info.

My understanding is ancestor people of Indo Iranian and Indo Aryans were related tribes. What I know is when ancestors of iranica came to what is now Iran, they called the people that lived there monsters or “Daevas”. If I remember the people that lived there originally were called Munda and Dravida. But they were all killed. Indo Aryans might have split from Indo Iranians sometime before that. But this is what my Iranian grandpa told me, no idea where he got that from. It’s just old legends.