4500-year-old DNA from Rakhigarhi reveals evidence that will unsettle Hindutva nationalists

[Indus Pakistan]

1000% right..you need a positive rating..

My thoughts -

 

[faithfulguy]

My thoughts -

The Indians are framing this discussion as if India had existed since ancient time. Even though it was created in 1947 after begged for independence.

 

[Rusty]

Can someone explain in layman terms?

There are two aspects here.
First is the science, and the second is the political.

Modern accepted science says that the ancestors of modern Pakistanis and Northern Indians were these "Aryans" who were invaders from central Asia. They brought with them a language that would become Sanskrit and shaped modern day Hinduism.

The political aspect is that extreme right wing Hindus ,Hindutvas (Think of them like Hitler youths) are trying to re-write history so that they can draw a line and say "Hinduism is indigenous, and Islam/Christianity/others are foreign"
They then use this as a basis to unleash terror on minorities and to try and claim back some "dignity" from their history.

Reality is that they are just insecure and will most likely never find wives as India has millions of "left over" men, so they turn to Hindutva to give their lives some meaning.

 

[Hey I'll love you]

From that sense northeast , aryan surrendered to north-east india

 

[Hamza913]

Can someone explain in layman terms?

Aryan migration is still an indisputable fact.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

I will give a detailed response later but few points to note.

• As far as looking at this from the Pakistani perspective all I see is a internal dispute between two camps of Indian's to the detriment of us. What they are saying is that Indus civilization including as far west as Mehr Garh/Mundigak are either North Indian [note Indian] or South Indian [note Indian]. Meaning they are Indian. How you name things and the science of that - nomenclature often exposes the agenda and or bias of the authors. So it is here.
  
• 
  
• Don't forget at the timescale we are talking about there was no India. Or Pakistan. Or Iran. Or Afghanistan. The choice of using 'India' as opposed to 'South Asia' is itself reflective of the agenda which is being driven by Indians. In fact the sites in India are peripheral to Indus but because Indian government driven by Hindutwas is pouring money into this whole mission to connect and manufacture their history under the brand "India" or "Hindu" we are getting a distorted picture.
  
• 
  
• Meaning can you imagine Sudanese government pouring in billions to spread the narrative about the Nile sites in their country that brings in outside interest. Further this is done under the "Africa" label. Eventually the tag "Africa" is used for everything. Eventually a split happens between "North Africa and South Africa" because they find one sampple with SAA genes. The same is going on here. And the Egyptians are left out of thier own civilization.

It's one big politically driven drama by Hindutwas with history being used to gloss "Ancient India". Fcuk em all of them.

I may as well throw my two cents into this. I do not see anything wrong with the science. The problem is how it is interpreted. As we all know, the ivc was huge, spreading from iran to western up and tajikistan to northwest maharashtra. Of course modern pakistan was at the center of it. A common miconception people have is that it was an empire or republic like rome. however, both those concepts came much later. the ivc was instead composed of various city states that shared a common culture. Aside from trade there was little contact betweem the people of MD and Harrapa and Lothal and rakhigari etc etc. I think it is fair to say the ancient ivc was as varied demographically as todays south asia. The problem arises when someone tries to use rakhigari dna to make assumptions about tamils, assamese, balochis, etc, especially ethnicities such as the former two which were not even part of the IVC. And that is exactly what is happening today unfortunately. It is ridiculous to think that the dna of rakhigari resisents is the exact same as tamils and biharis and assamese etc. I can understand why a balochi would be angry that people assume they are the same as people 1000s of miles away based on the study of one particular geographic location, and i can also understand why a tamil would feel the same way. Hence there is nothing wrong with the study, as it simply reported undeniable evidence gined feom 4000 year old skeletons. It is when one uses it to make unfounded assumptions that trouble arises. I actually disagree with the AIT, but that is a conpletely different debate.

My thoughts -

I would love it if you gave me a piggy back ride.

 

[gangsta_rap]

Aryan migration is still an indisputable fact.

What we are told about it is actually extremely false. Theres a hidden history to it all. Gangadhar Tilak from the early 1900s had summed up the story correctly but post ww2 its been intentionally thrown into obscurity

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

This is a very interesting read indeed! I'm amazed at how familiar it is with the modern American history where Europeans changed the entire makeup of North America.

So, this being much older could be called the first or original decimation of a native population with myriad of differences ofcourse.

The herders brought horse to India just like the Europeans brought it to America. A question does arise, Did the native population also succumb to new diseases? Though herders became farmers in India they did change both the language and religion of India. The worst conclusion however is that both the old(original) India and the modern (North America) share a lot in common... Even their tormentors i.e. Aryans!

Though, I have read elsewhere that Dravidian were also primarily Persian and Baloch people... is there another twist in this tale? I.e. dravidian population commingled with native tribes? Were they pushed south by the invaders? Just like the parsis much later?

 

[SQ8]

Politics is essentially based on lies and when mixed with religious dogma leads to what is happening in India today.
Political posts aside, the find enforces that idea of humanity not being of disinct races but rather millenias worth amalgamation of genetic mixing.

 

[WaLeEdK2]

I never understood why people care about history that’s 1000 of Years old. What your ancestors were centuries ago doesn’t mean shit today. You’re not of a higher status. Far too many people like to be on their high horses. Congratulations you had an empire in 65 AD lol.

 

[faithfulguy]

I never understood why people care about history that’s 1000 of Years old. What your ancestors were centuries ago doesn’t mean shit today. You’re not of a higher status. Far too many people like to be on their high horses. Congratulations you had an empire in 65 AD lol.

Prior to 65 AD, India had space travel, modern surgery techniques, Internet, and had invented calculus. They just forgot all the advances..


So said the Indians

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I never understood why people care about history

There are people who have a interest in cars, horses, coins, trainspotting, dogs, flowers and some of us have interest in history.

Pakistanis and Northern Indians

Who exactly are North Indians?

 

[WaLeEdK2]

There are people who have a interest in cars, horses, coins, trainspotting, dogs, flowers and some of us have interest in history.

Who exactly are North Indians?

I’m not talking about it like that but a lot of people I’ve seen first hand talk as if they are superior because of they’re a certain type of people. Seen it a lot, with Iranians especially. This one mf told me one time he’s from “Persia” lmao.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

From our persepective (Pakistanis,) North Indian and South Indian look exactly the same. Besides the Sikhs, you guys look nothing like us.

Here is Gujurat which is North Indian.

Here is Tamil Naidu, South Indian.

Exact same people, same race.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I’m not talking about it like that but a lot of people I’ve seen first hand talk as if they are superior because of they’re a certain type of people. Seen it a lot, with Iranians especially. This one mf told me one time he’s from “Persia” lmao.

So what is wrong with that? You see a nation state is too big for a individual to relate to. You can't know or be even related to 200 million. You can't even ever meet them all. A tribe one can expect to be able to relate to and even have personal connections with. But a nation state? Yet being and feeling part of a nation state is essential for any nation to progress.

This is where sense of shared myths, fables, legends and history kicks in. If you can create a sense of these across the citizens of a state you end up creating a monolith that can help to unite and leverage as a one organism.The individual gives his self the state. Nations who create this exclusive sense of self end up being successful.

There is a reason why Iraq cracked up like broken glass along ethnic, sectarian, tribal lines whereas Iran has persisted despite massive US pressure. The sense of 'Persianess' makes for a united nation.Turkey is another example where myth and history have been spun to make the turkish nation into a united whole that stands as a monolith.

From our persepective (Pakistanis,) North Indian and South Indian look exactly the same.

I agree. I can't see how North India is hyphenated with Pakistan.

Here is Tamil Naidu, South Indian.

Have you seen how these aboriginals have blatently engaged in cultural appropriation. These people until recently were either semi-naked or clad in saree. Now they have discovered the shalwar kameez. Sickens me to see these savages wearing our attire.